Given the trajectory of the series (and Bethesda games in general) I have this creeping fear that it's going to be even more watered down than Skyrim is. It seems like with every game Bethesda releases they strip away RPG elements and dialogue and "streamline" everything, effectively making their beloved RPG franchises into action-adventure games like they did with Fallout 4. What are the odds they turn it around and actually make the excellent first person open world RPG the series deserves?
My dream is for TES to get it's own New Vegas, a return-to-form RPG from an outside company that actually knows how to write an interesting video game
I don't know, what I do know for sure is that TES VI will be completely broken on release because Bethesda knows they can use modders as free labor, they'll fix their game with mods... like they have been doing forever now.
Bethesda games have steadily gotten worse since Morrowind. Not expecting much from Starfield either.
Morrowind was peak creativity for the series, even though the gameplay was awful. That wasn't morrowind's fault really though games were just kind of like that at the time.
It was a labor of love and it shows.
peak creativity for the series, even though the gameplay was awful
Doesn't sound like a good tradeoff to me, what good is a game if you can't enjoy playing it. Might as well just read a book instead. (Obviously not saying that books bad, just that it might be a better medium for this)
games were just kind of like that at the time
Pretty sure games with good gameplay have been around for a long time
That isn't quite what I meant by "gameplay" What I meant was that it was a little janky in the way that PC games were at the time, not that it was not enjoyable or fun to play. I would take a game with heart and soul and love over a dry, but impeccably polished game any day of the week.
"might as well read a book instead" Let they who are without back pain cast the first werther's original
I guess I'm a lot more simple minded when it comes to this sort of thing, it ultimately boils down to the overall enjoyment I'm getting from a game. And honestly as long as you don't put me down for enjoying oblivion and skyrim I'm happy to agree to disagree.
I wouldn't dream of it. I don't think that is simple minded.
I just hope one day modders will make a port as they have been threatening to for years and we can all enjoy the best of both worlds.
Sorry I'm with gamingcirclejerk on this one, I don't really care about "dumbing down" or griping about "streamlining".
When I play a game I only care if I'm having fun, and honestly I have fun with skyrim. I don't really give a shit about "RPG elements", walking simulators are relaxing. Yeah I'm a casual.
(I'm gonna get slaughtered for this opinion)
I don't even mind the walking simulator thing, but I don't know why with Skyrim specifically is so easy to notice the "stitches in the fabric" as it were, the world feels soooo makeshift. The thing I remember the most in Skyrim is the College of Winterhold, I always do the magic guild questline in morrowind, so I had to do this one. It's hyped in books as "the center of magic" in Skyrim, and there's many books that keep referencing Winterhold and magical breakthroughts around Winterhold keep popping up in descriptions. You walk very far until you reach Winterhold and from afar you see this ominous castle, really cool looking harry potter-ish castle, you enter and see that the entirety of the school is five guys shooting spells at the wall. One of the guy gets in the way of someone shooting an ice beam, shouts in pain and shortly after resumes walking to nowhere in particular.
It's perhaps some sort of uncanny valley effect too I guess. I mean it's obvious that NPCs in Morrowind REALLY have nothing to do except walk back and forth, and most share the same dialogue pool, but I dunno, something in Skyrim didn't stick the landing and I don't know what it was. I think the subplots happening beneath the surface in Morrowind help you flesh out the world in your imagination, we should go back to lengthy text exposition, maybe.
Almost everything just felt super small in Skyrim to me, or at least the town stuff and actual civilization.
Maybe this is gaming as a child syndrome but I remember the Imperial City or whatever feeling really massive, which put the smaller settlements in the world in perspective. I think with Skyrim also it feels like the technology should be able to do more somehow, in older games everything feels somewhat cohesively limited, while in Skyrim suddenly shit just feels smaller and more limited than their potential.
The small cities are one of the biggest disappointments in Skyrim IMO. They did a decent job of making them feel bigger, but I remember walking around Whiterun the first time and being like "uhhh this is it?"
I also wish there was some more interesting spell selection (the shouts were cool at least) and that the weapons felt more different. I was able to fix those with mods, but I really shouldn't have to.
That's fair, I'm not denying that there are flaws with the game, and the factions are a major one. I'm just pointing out that the game is still fun despite its flaws and ultimately the enjoyment is all that truly matters to me
I think TES should stick with radiant AI, the world would feel a lot more dead without it. I feel that oblivion did it better, there were more NPCs with more complex schedules.
I have fun with games like Skyrim too, I'm not saying it's unplayable garbage or anything. I've got like 400 hours in it. I think probably my biggest gripe with both Skyrim and Oblivion is that they feel extremely railroady, you start the game and it's immediately like "holy shit you're the chosen one go save the world" and then you've got the main quest breathing down your neck the entire game while you try to enjoy side content. Compare that to Morrowind or New Vegas, where you're dropped off via boat or walk out of Doc Mitchell's with a plot thread you can choose to follow, or you can choose to entirely fuck off in a different direction and join or guild or do whatever else you feel like. When one of the most popular mods for both Oblivion and Skyrim dramatically alters the intros of the games to cut that shit out I feel like Bethesda should probably learn a lesson from that
Adding on to this to say that I think the reason NV sticks out so much to me is that it gives a huge amount of freedom to build the character you want to roleplay, both in it's systems and it's story. Non-combat skills like Medicine and Barter actually feel impactful outside of their small niches by affecting how your character can speak to people. Compare that to Skyrim where your character options feel like melee, ranged, or spells. The speech skill is a total joke. Any character can complete any questline in the game. A 2h wielding barbarian can become headmaster of the college of winterhold. Nothing matters. I just want them to bring meaningful skills back :doomjak:
Questlines should get locked off based on decisions and other questlines IMO, if they cant make the character builds interesting enough to feel different and meaningful this at least would force some kind of character identity just based on what you've actually done in the game, rather than always being the archmage, head of both the dark brotherhood and thieves guild at once, noted war hero who decided the political fate of Skyrim etc etc etc but this time you use a bow in actual gameplay instead of a sword. Like the Thieves Guild arent going to see the fucking Archmage stroll up and go "Hello fellow law breakers, how do you do?" and not instantly think that this is some kind of trap to fuck over the guild.
And yes self imposed restrictions exist but I have no self control, Im a dummy with ADHD if I see a quest the game lets me do Im going to do it, and the average player doing the game first time isnt going to have meta knowledge of what quests to avoid in order to keep a coherent character going either. Bethesda are so fucking lucky to have their modding thralls making their games replayable in an interesting way because otherwise there really isnt a huge reason to replay Skyrim unless you missed something by accident, everything just kinda feels the same.
I think most people really like Skyrim dude, don't worry. It's watered down, but it's tolerable. Fallout 4 and 76 are the games people really seem to hate.
No, I just replied to you with words i meant for another poster further down the thread on accident.
Regardless, I do think Fallout 4 and 76 are the games that get the most ire.
Well regardless, all I'm saying is that I'm tired of "dumbing down" and "lowest common denominator" discourse
Not that it'll stop me from having my casual fun (obviously not defending beth btw, I'm basically saying "let people enjoy things")
Oh yeah, im not going to shit on somebody for Enjoying something like Fallout 4, I liked it enough myself. I just would have preferred for my tastes for it to be more like Oblivion or New Vegas and I hope ES6 is more like those games.
Not going to attack somebody for enjoying something though.
My dream is for TES to get it’s own New Vegas
That exists, it's called Enderal.
TES VI will probably be competent enough to satisfy mainstream audiences, but every Bethesda release since Skyrim Special Edition has seen them testing the waters of shutting out modders and pushing their creation club BS on players in new and exciting ways. My prediction is that TES VI's launch will be accompanied by a massive controversy, like the game locking modders out from certain features like scripting unless they're publishing on the CC (Bethesda will claim this is a security measure), but after a week of people protesting everyone who cares will move on and we'll never see a modding scene as large and as creative as Skyrim's was at its peak ever again.
My dream is for TES to get it’s own New Vegas
Skyrim had so much potential to be something so much more special (and it was a great game or at least a great foundation for modding)
It could have really tackled things like imperialism, racism, legal moralism, the thieves guild could have offered up a critique of class society and been explicitly revolutionary.
It could have really tackled things like imperialism, racism, legal moralism, the thieves guild could have offered up a critique of class society and been explicitly revolutionary.
But instead it was made by liberals under capitalism.
I would LOVE to see one of my favourite game franchises made with real ideas and shit, instead of being watered down more with each iteration. But that ain't gonna come from AAA studios.
Developers had to rebuild decrepit engine. This is most of the delay right here.
Most of the delay is that they're rolling in so much Skyrim money that they literally have no reason to do anything but keep releasing Skyrim. As Todd Howard put it: "If you want us to stop releasing it, stop buying it."
The rest of the delay is that they're working on an entirely new game which they want to complete before they even really touch Elder Scrolls 6.
As Todd Howard put it: “If you want us to stop releasing it, stop buying it.”
Skyrim is a video game version of the Police Academy Equation. Sooner or later we'll find out how many times you can port a popular game, because as soon as it doesn't make its money back they'll stop doing it.
No and 0. Gameplay wise it will be ezmode Skyrim and more similar to a single player ESO. There will be microtransactions in it and you must stay logged on to Microsoft bullshit to play despite it being a single player game.
I dunno. I don't have very high hopes after Skyrim.
Playing Oblivion, Fallout 3, and NV recently made me remember that they can actually make amazing games. I haven't made it to Fallout 4 yet however... and from what I've heard people say it functions more like an action game which really doesn't bode well. We'll see though maybe I'll feel different after playing Fallout 4.
Minor spoilers for the beginning of FO4
spoiler
If you pick a female character in FO4 you start the game as a lawyer and mom/wife in the pre-war world. Within roughly 20 minutes of starting the game you hop into a suit of power armor that's just laying around and mow down hordes of enemies culminating in going toe to toe with a deathclaw at level 2.
:joker-gaming:
iirc she's also canonically in the army reserves but yea it's weak writing
IIRC "Nate" is a veteran of the Anchorage campaign and basically has a paid speaking gig for the military, "Nora" is a lawyer.
Right but I also think Nora is in the reserves in addition to being a lawyer so she has some military training. I'm assuming in universe lore reasoning is that the US has become such a military state the expectation is all civilians take part in military training/join the reserves in case red China invades the mainland
Overall the game wasn't really that bad, but the beginning seriously sucks in my opinion and it kind of ruins the tone for the rest of it. I don't know why Bethesda can't just give you a more simple, ambiguous start that allows you to craft your own backstory for your character, drops you in the game, then gives you an interesting plot thread to follow or just allows you to make your own adventure in their open world if you so desire.
I think that they think (perhaps correctly) that most gamers have no attention span and need some kind of instant gratification to get them into the game.
"ambiguity bad" - dumb corporations who want to appeal to the lowest common denominator at all costs
The main story in FO3 was insultingly dumb. I remember my first playthrough I found out about the sacrifice at the purifier so I deliberately went back and got Fawkes then replayed the whole ending sequence again only to be hit with the classic "I'm sorry, my companion, but no. We all have our own destinies, and yours culminates here. I would not rob you of that."
Dumbest shit I've ever heard in my life. The world outside of the main quest is decent in 3 has some cool moments and locations but god damn that one moment really soured the whole game for me
I played 3 after New Vegas and 4. Even 4's story towered over 3. They had to make an entire DLC to retcon the ending
only thing 3 had going for it was the cool location, the urban combat around America's famous monuments was dope. just don't try to roleplay as anyone else besides daddy's precious hydraulic engineer
TES VI will be lauded as a 10/10 for the first 3 or 4 months after its release which is just in time for game awards. Then after like a year you realize it's solidly like a 5 or 6/10 that's propped up by modding. (This is the formula for every Bethesda game)
Features Include:
-
An extremely barebones directional melee and blocking system that will be regarded as a massive improvement from Skyrim's combat system despite being what you would expect from a game from like 2009
-
There will be three towns with actual characters in them and every village will be a barebones patch of dirt with generic NPCs and no interesting stories. This is so you can use the settlement system from Fallout 4.
-
The settlement system will be a major part of the gameplay loop, and will be slightly more developed but not enough.
-
The settlement building interface will be improved significantly but it will still be pretty bad.
-
Skills will be removed, only perks
-
Two very significant and large sidequests will blatantly and directly contradict each other wrt lore
-
Most quests will have a radiant quest aspect to them, ostensibly to give more replayability. There will be exactly one quest where this is used in an interesting way and will be very early in the game. After that will be mostly used as a randomly generated location for a fetch quest portion.
-
Dragons as a level-scaled common enemy.
-
Massive waste of money big name actor to voice act some guy
-
Conversations will be as stilted and stiff as ever despite inheriting Fallout 4's conversation camera system that they also did not make use of in that game either.
-
Teethgrindingly painful reference to some Skyrim meme.
-
No voiced protagonist but the conversation system will be as bad as Fallout 4's.
-
You can pick any of the races as usual but the story will weirdly be obviously geared designed with a human protagonist in mind.
-
A major questline involves a conflict between two sides. You will not be able to choose, or the sides will be so indistinct from each other that there's no reason to choose besides which NPC soldier armor appearance you like better.
I'd like tell you to put down the lathe, but honestly this is 100% going to happen already
You're right and you've successfully dehyped me from feeling any excitement. Fucking "radiant quests", just the shallowest, most mundane form of storytelling. Literally generated by a computer. Wouldn't want any creativity in your story now would we? better to just brag about how you can clear the same generic cave 5000 times and pretend that's fun gameplay. It's the perfect formula for late capitalist game development, keeps the game bulky but cheap, it's like sawdust filling in bread but digital. I fully expect the proportion of radiant quests to gradually grow to be the majority of the gameplay in the future.
-
What are the odds they turn it around and actually make the excellent first person open world RPG the series deserves?
Like, none. Big game studios are nearly incapable of making anything good these days.
No, Bethesda has been lobotomizing their RPGs since Oblivion. Fallout 4 is the absolute maximum amount of streamlining and theme park open world design you can go and still be passable
EDIT: I should add that Bethesda is certainly going to keep doing this, and I expect TES6 and Fallout 5 are going to sink to new lows with how much RP of the RPG they're making stripped out. The only lesson they've seemed to learn was not to do a voiced protagonist again,
since Oblivion
Since Daggerfall, frankly. If you read 2002 forum posts about Morrowind the criticisms are all exactly the same as the 2011 criticisms of Skyrim, which were also pretty much exactly the same as the 2006 criticisms of Oblivion. With every release, they 'streamline' out so much of the interesting stuff that tons of fans of the previous entry always hate it.
I liked Oblivion, but that's probably because I only played it literally a year after Morrowind and it seemed like such a humongous leap forward.
I miss my skill points :sadness:
Stripping them out in favor of only a single perk per level ends up making most perks boring (since they're the only source of improvement, they end up mostly being "do x, y% better") and robs players of the ability to make a character that can actually handle problems in unique ways
I miss being able to do broken stuff like just spamming jump in Oblivion as soon as you start the game until you have strong enough acrobatics to just jump over big sections of dungeons. Fix the bugs but keep the gameplay kinda broken IMO.
Like, the entire point of Elder Scrolls levelling system was that you got better by doing stuff
Breaking it down to "You do stuff and then you get 15% better at one thing" makes it really boring
it’ll be fun as fuck and most g*mers will spend more than 40hrs playing it
