bottom text (this was probably posted before)

  • ssjmarx [he/him]
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    2 years ago

    Worth remembering that while Sarkeesian was one of the principal targets of Gamer Gate, it initially got started when an woman NB made a text adventure that got good reviews and people freaked and assumed she slept with a reviewer for them.

    • doublepepperoni [none/use name]
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      2 years ago

      You forget that the actual catalyst was her ex-boyfriend venting about her on 4chan after their break-up and making those allegations. Chan types had hated the dev in question before GG too for some other crimes against gamerdom, and they were fucking ecstatic to blow the shit out of the post and turn it into a campaign

      • Orannis62 [ze/hir]
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        2 years ago

        The "other crimes against gamerdom" was stating that women also get depression. I'm not joking.

      • Poison_Ivy [comrade/them]
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        2 years ago

        Apparently a lot of the allegations were false too

        https://idledillettante.com/2014/12/06/eron-gjoni-hateful-boyfriend/

    • mittens [he/him]
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      2 years ago

      lmao not even, it got a mention on Kotaku due to DepressionQuest being, well, a means to convey a rough equivalent to being depressed. no reviews at all, literally just a little bit of coverage. Though tbh I'm thinking about it and I think Sarkeesian slamming predated gamergate, actually.

      • Catherine_Steward [she/her]
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        2 years ago

        Yeah people hated Sarkeesian way back in early 2013, firmly before gamergate which technically started I think in 2014 and was only in full swing around 2015-2016.

    • hexaflexagonbear [he/him]
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      2 years ago

      She was sleeping with someone else at that company, but that's pretty banal. Tightly knit industries filled with young people usually involve a ton of fucking. Some of it looks like a potential conflict of interest, until you realize it's just horny young people with similar interests getting pushed into having a lot of social interaction with eachother. No way she's close to the only game developer to sleep with a games journalist.

      • ssjmarx [he/him]
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        2 years ago

        I remember constantly pointing out to people that other people liked her game too. It's a simple game made by one person, but it uses its medium well and the writing is fine.

  • ScotPilgrimVsTheLibs [they/them]
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    2 years ago

    I ended up watching one of Anita's videos. I thought some of them were well-made, and she clearly had an audience. I don't understand what all the outrage was about. It was straight up McCarthyism. Her videos were relatively inoffensive and can easily be moved on from.

    • viva_la_juche [they/them, any]
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      2 years ago

      It is embarassing how much of a pant shitting outrage gamers threw over some pretty innocuous videos.

      Right up to YouTube removing the dislike button, videos uploaded to the femenist freq channel still had at best 50:50 ratios of likes to dislikes. So wild to me gamers really spent the last decade continuing to go to her channel to downvote anything even tangentially related to her.

      • Redcuban1959 [any]
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        2 years ago

        "B-but Insert generic chud youtuber here told me to hate her!!"

      • btbt [he/him]
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        2 years ago

        To be fair they don’t really have anything better to do

    • DJMSilver [he/him]
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      2 years ago

      "Gamers" are mindless consumers who are completely subjected to the whims of corporations. Even the category of 'Gamer' is made up and not coherent (no an activity you do does not constitute an identity).

    • mittens [he/him]
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      2 years ago

      I don’t understand what all the outrage was about.

      I genuinely believe gamergate was and is an online movement that continues to beg for more serious analysis. It wasn't a harbinger of Trump politics like some pundits think, actually it was a culmination of half a decade of continuous culture war waged by Rush Limbaugh types during the Obama years, and eventually evolved into a the more coherent belief of "politics is downstream from culture" by Andrew Breitbart. I said this before but this "culture war" was waged on several fronts, from movies, to sci-fi books to fucking MtG. Breitbart the magazine under Bannon was just waiting for the right movement to latch itself onto and the most explosive one was GG.

      • Nakoichi [they/them]
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        2 years ago

        Kathleen Belew's book Bring the War Home: The White Power Movement and Paramilitary America is very very good and covers exactly this subject. It was one of the main sources Robert Evans used for his similar shorter work The War On Everyone (regardless of feelings of the author it's a good concise history of the evolution of fascist movements in the US into what they are now.

      • MamaVomit [he/him]
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        2 years ago

        The book "Devil's Bargain: Steve Bannon, Donald Trump, and the Storming of the Presidency" goes into this pretty well, and echoes your exact sentiment. Bannon had been lurking around "gamer culture" since the early World of Warcraft days.

    • effervescent [they/them]
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      2 years ago

      It’s really basic media analysis. Stuff that’s been well established in other mediums for decades. It wasn’t as if she was treading in unexplored waters. Whatever experimentation she did was entirely about presentation for a non-academic audience and she clearly got the trial by fire on that

  • crime [she/her, any]
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    2 years ago

    I took a couple game design classes when I was in college and they basically all made it clear that the line between vidya and other art forms was basically zilch. One of them may as well have been an art class about the Dadaist moment tbqh

    • axont [she/her, comrade/them]
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      2 years ago

      Wouldn't the line come down to the intent of the game? Like I can see Disco Elysium or Grim Fandango or something as art. That makes sense they have something to express and there's a relationship between the creators and the audience. There are stories, themes, messages, etc. But then there are games like Killing Floor or Counter-Strike, where the intent is entirely about an exhilarating multiplayer experience. One thing that always stuck with me that Roger Ebert said is we wouldn't consider a game of basketball to be art. Is a game of chess art? Or are the individual pieces artistic?

      That's where I get hung up.

        • axont [she/her, comrade/them]
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          2 years ago

          Maybe. I don't know enough about that debate to say if I am. I am genuinely confused though about how some games could be considered art at all if it leans more or entirely into the mechanical gamey aspects rather than expressing something. Like is fisbee golf art? Olympic swimming? That's where I'm getting tripped up. Also they don't need to be art to be worthwhile. I play a lot of fighting games for instance.

      • crime [she/her, any]
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        2 years ago

        Yeah, that blurry line about what is and isn't art is why we focused so much on dada. Is a urinal art? Is it art when you lay it sideways, sign it, and submit it to a gallery?

        Certainly there are artistic pieces in many games — my personal take is that there can be art in the setup and structure of the game, even discounting things like art assets. Someone sat down and made a bunch of intentional decisions about the specific way a given game was to be experienced and perceived by its players, and that creates a relationship between the designer and the player which I would generally categorize as art to some extent.

  • budoguytenkaichi [he/him,they/them]
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    2 years ago

    2 more years it'll be the 10th anniversary. They managed to get Anita to guest on The Colbert Report to give an idea how long ago it was now.

  • Bloobish [comrade/them]
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    2 years ago

    Fuckin' hell I continually forget then remember that this shit actually happened and that a huge swath of gamers got grifted by a bunch of reactionaries into having a temper tantrum over critical art analysis

    • DragonNest_Aidit [they/them,use name]
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      2 years ago

      Yeah, this is what killed the "video game is art" movement. "Video game is dumb entertainment above critique" is the official position Gamers have adopted today.

      • Good_Username [they/them,e/em/eir]
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        2 years ago

        As someone who didn't get into videogames until later in life (mid 20s, so not that late, but late compared to Gamers), what I think is really interesting is that there are a shitload of games that definitely qualify as art, but they're not the games capital g Gamers play. One of my most consistent "takes" about video games is this: just play better games! Don't like loot boxes and day 1 dlc? Play better games. Don't like micro transactions? Play better games. You think games nowadays are all boring open worlds with no interesting story or side missions? Stop playing the newest Assassin's Creed or Farcry or whatever the fuck and play something like Pathologic 2 or Outer Wilds instead.

        There are so many amazing games out now that I literally don't understand why people waste their time with the newest AAA slop that everyone knows going in is going to be over-hyped garbage.

      • Bloobish [comrade/them]
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        2 years ago

        Exactly, and god forbid you bring up you enjoy indie games that aren't just shitty knock off boomer shooters cuss those aren't "video games".

        • DragonNest_Aidit [they/them,use name]
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          2 years ago

          God boomer shooter fans are so fucking obnoxious, they're basically the "not like other kids" of indie gaming.

          Undertale or celeste or whatever indie pixel crap are only popular because of nostalgia

          My brother in christ, what do you think the 30 years late Doom clones you play are?

          • Bloobish [comrade/them]
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            2 years ago

            Out of the bucket load of cheap knock off doom and quake clones there's like half a dozen actual good ones. Amid Evil is freaking beautiful, Dusk and it's weird farmer diesel punk horror is nice, and lastly you got Ion Maiden as a classic duke game for the top three dominant; also Wrath Aeon is shaping up to maybe be good if they get it out within the next decade. Currently I'm waiting on Citizen Sleeper which already advertises itself as a game set during the fall of galactic capitalism (with the corpos mentioned in the trailer as pretty fucking bad having employees augmented with planned obsolescence cyborg parts) so there's hope it's got some Disco Elysium style commentary.

          • jkfjfhkdfgdfb [she/her]
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            2 years ago

            boomer shooter people are weird

            just find a good doom mod or whatever instead of a modern game trying to be it

      • NomadicWarMachine [any]
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        2 years ago

        Being a dumb asshole idiot who spent far too much time debating these weirdos back in the day, I think there position is more "games are art, but it's OUR ART! Those artsy fartsy hipsters need to stay way from it with their pretentious nonsense."

  • Owl [he/him]
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    2 years ago

    I remember when the first Tropes Vs Women In Video Games came out. Someone on one of the gaming forums shared it as a cool new media analysis thing, and I thought "Wait, so it's just extremely introductory-level feminist theory with exhaustive examples? Nobody needs this, right?"

    And clearly I was wrong lol.

  • MGayUltra [he/him]
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    2 years ago

    Sarkeesian got the publicity and the hate because she was the first one to make gamers aware that what used to be their insular little boys club was now something enjoyed by many people, and that it would need to change to accommodate them accordingly. I think a lot of gamergate and the hate she got preceding gamergate, was false consciousness in which the gamer masses responded to things that were natural to be upset about (a cottage industry hobby being shredded apart, commodified, reduced into lowest common denominator bait products, and stripped of the things that used to bring them joy) by transference onto a much easier target for a group of atomized dipshits raised without any critique of capitalism: evil women complaining too much. There was a legitimate amount of hatred towards gaming journalism before gamergate because it was a joke industry that existed purely to do advertising for big gaming companies, but since these gamers were legitimately unable to critique the causes of that, they latched onto an invented effect.

    One funny thing about Sarkeesian that I like for the same reason I love Armond White, is that she's not particularly insightful and often misses the point of the object of her critique, which is hilarious because it absolutely infuriates the gamer horde. You can see this happening now with her Letterboxd account, which is legitimately fucking hilarious. There's this banger for example. Her review of Elf is just "I’d never seen this movie. My reaction to it is likely what you would expect." Her discussion of Robocop as being copraganda is also an all timer lmao (although props to her because if I recall correctly, she pushes back when one of the libs in the discussion complains that the film is "redirecting" critiques of the police onto "corporations" hahaha)

  • Cromalin [she/her]
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    2 years ago

    The fact that thousands of people decided they were willing to do everything in their power to ruin someone's life for the crime of extremely basic and obvious media analysis will never stop feeling absurd to me.

  • marxisthayaca [he/him,they/them]
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    2 years ago

    They targeted gamers. Gamers.

    We're a group of people who will sit for hours, days, even weeks on end performing some of the hardest, most mentally demanding tasks. Over, and over, and over all for nothing more than a little digital token saying we did. We'll punish our selfs doing things others would consider torture, because we think it's fun. We'll spend most if not all of our free time min maxing the stats of a fictional character all to draw out a single extra point of damage per second. Many of us have made careers out of doing just these things: slogging through the grind, all day, the same quests over and over, hundreds of times to the point where we know evety little detail such that some have attained such gamer nirvana that they can literally play these games blindfolded. Do these people have any idea how many controllers have been smashed, systems over heated, disks and carts destroyed 8n frustration? All to latter be referred to as bragging rights? These people honestly think this is a battle they can win? They take our media? We're already building a new one without them. They take our devs? Gamers aren't shy about throwing their money else where, or even making the games our selves. They think calling us racist, mysoginistic, rape apologists is going to change us? We've been called worse things by prepubescent 10 year olds with a shitty head set. They picked a fight against a group that's already grown desensitized to their strategies and methods. Who enjoy the battle of attrition they've threatened us with. Who take it as a challange when they tell us we no longer matter. Our obsession with proving we can after being told we can't is so deeply ingrained from years of dealing with big brothers/sisters and friends laughing at how pathetic we used to be that proving you people wrong has become a very real need; a honed reflex. Gamers are competative, hard core, by nature. We love a challange. The worst thing you did in all of this was to challange us. You're not special, you're not original, you're not the first; this is just another boss fight.

    • viva_la_juche [they/them, any]
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      2 years ago

      What you’re experiencing is gamers reaction to it being so incoherent and childish that criticism of it seems over handed

      I mean you think there was a legitimate critique they were making about Anita instead of purely reactionary mudslinging?