You fucking freaks.
Liking Star Wars should be grounds for being given an atomic wedgie
Go ahead. Reply with “popular thing bad :so-true: ”
Good: Luke being jaded and refusing to teach. Luke thinking about killing Ben to stop another Vader from coming into being. Kylo turning on the Sith and wanting to become radically centrist. Light speed ramming even if it doesn't make sense with lore. Rey being just an average person with no connection to force users or Skywalkers. Luke confronting Ben and dying.
Bad; Casino planet, Benicio, the weird workplace tension with Poe and the Leia replacement, Hux, Phasma
And Rey’s lack of relation is fucking thrown away in the next movie because JJ Abrams got mad
Johnson just killing off the secretly Palpatine character bc he was dumb and boring and getting in the way of actually interesting characters will never not be hilarious. Jar Jar was trying to set up this whole thing where Palpatine is secretly somehow the big baddy again (Which is stupid bc no one cares about Palpatine, the whole franchise to that point is about Darth Vader). And Johnson is just like "I don't even know why this character is in the movie, I'm just going to kill him off for character development so we can focus on the bad guy who is the equivalent of Darth Vader".
On the good side you left out Luke realizing the Jedi Order orthodoxy about how the Force works and relates to morality. The twist with Rey's lack of pedigree however is so cool relative to the series that it probably counts for three points.
On the bad side you left out the general pacing, Leia's weird floating scene, and the movie being too fucking long overall.
Rey’s lack of pedigree is so cool relative to the series that it probably counts for three points.
l like that Obi-wan was so effective that both sides of this forgot he was already the better version of this type of character.
He's not the main character in any movie but Phantom Menace and there's never even a discussion of his heritage. It's not at all like Rey's "orphan MC trying to find out who their real parents were" thing.
Putting Laura Fucking Dern in a movie and just wasting her. Tragic
counterpoint: they crash the spaceships into each other and it looks like that fucking sick bit from Subspace Emissary
I'm glad I'm not the only one who was reminded of Kirby doing 9/11
I can't believe this movie came out five years ago and people are still arguing about it, like holy shit you nerds it's a star wars movie just move on with your life
It's funny that TLJ still sparks arguments constantly, but everybody is in agreement that ROS sucked bad. Something to think about is that Empire Strikes Back was also pretty divisive when it came out - which is why I firmly believe that if the third movie had built on and paid off the ideas of TLJ (the way ROTJ did for ESB), the whole trilogy would be remembered more fondly.
How could they possibly follow that up without making two more movies?
The First Order is crippled after the loss of their dreadnought from the Holdo maneuver. Kylo's story arc is about consolidating power, killing those in his way and reaffirming to the galaxy that he is definitely the Bad Guy. Ren's rise is explicitly shown to be bankrolled by people from the casino planet.
The resistance links up with other groups that were inspired by Luke's sudden appearance at the salt planet to fight. Finn, Poe and Rose have a story arc about welding these disparate groups into a new Rebel Alliance. The new Alliance has the opportunity to be bankrolled by war profiteers like the First Order is, but rejects them and declares its intention to establish a new more equitable galactic order.
Rey similarly rejects Luke's conclusion that the Jedi were more damaging to the galaxy than they were good, and links up with non-Jedi force users and re-founds the order. The New Jedi Order is dedicated, not to the protection of the Republic as the previous one was, but to the protection of the people.
The New Rebellion and the New Jedi mass up and travel to where the First Order's fleet is being rebuilt, and there is a big space battle. Rey fights Kylo and wins, and the First Order is destroyed by a bunch of yokels in space ships. During the battle Finn is given the opportunity to sacrifice himself, but remembers what Rose said and chooses not to - and surviving puts him in just the right place at just the right time to fire the shot that actually wins the battle.
Everything set up in TLJ more or less paid off, and I think you could get this all under two hours. People might complain that it's rushed but it wouldn't be nearly as rushed as establishing and paying off a ton of brand new things like ROS did.
"Under two hours" :porky-scared:
You just admitted that it would be rushed necessitating corporate pad it out or make another movie. Since they wanted a trilogy they would pad it out... hey, were back to ROS!
Every single good movie ever made could have been ruined by executive meddling. If executive overreach is fully determined, then no amount of rewrites will prevent it - but my outline provides a path to a satisfying conclusion that could have capped off the sequel trilogy instead of making it worse.
This implies it wasn't obvious that the sequel triology was meddled with excessively by corporate. If were going to ignore Disney being Disney why stop at cramming everything into one last movie?
We've been not moving on with our lives since 1977 and there's no reason to think we're going to move on any time soon.
chuds hate it for the wrong reasons, but that doesn't make it good.
The whole sequel trilogy is bad. Every scene feels like checking a box from a marketing exec or an algorithm. They take zero risks and have zero vision. TLJ might be less bad but the bar is incredibly low.
I don’t think it’s comparable to marvel and whatnot. There were only 3 real Star Wars films as content for like 20 years. It happened under a way different system than the system we have now. Far more corporate.
Also, the originals contain anti Vietnam war allegory. The prequels get bogged down in politics because they really are about politics. They’re more political than you give them credit for. Doesn’t make the prequels good films, but they are different to marvel slop even if it’s for no other reason that times have simply changed.
The sequels on the other hand have much in common with Marvel.
On the vehicles - it’s a story made for kids. No one’s thinking about actual futuristic weaponry. Yeah, walkers are pretty dumb, but they’re new and pretty menacing in terms of sheer scale and the way they seem almost animal/monster like. They’re the vehicles of the big baddies. They’ve got legs because we’ve all seen plenty of tanks before.
If you’re going to claim that it’s a space western fantasy so and so, then analyse it as such. It is space western fantasy, it is essentially just a moral tale with lasers, it is just a space themed version of Seven Samurai. The importance is the story and the striking visuals that sell it as a bombastic space fantasy.
You're really shortselling Seven Samurai there. It had some silly plot elements, but I generally think it was much more thoughtful than Star Wars of all things.
Yeah, it’s a great film, but Lucas did basically rip its entire plot.
OG starwars is genre redefining, space operas before were certifiable schlock but it mainstreamed & ever since the genre expects people to take it seriously. i suppose it is similar to the MCU in that regard, mainstreaming a domain of comics.
as far as artistic merit goes yeah its only the best scored & produced film in the genre ever that made everyone collectively lose their damn minds. things like that don't happen on accident man, saying the story is simple & it hams WW2 footage is mistaking intention for incompetence. its a tight film that relies on audience familiarity with the basics under all the techno-spiritual babble and stupid names.
It makes me sad to think there are young people, otherwise well behaved, who would rather say they hate the og star wars dogfights than admit the last Jedi was mostly a dud. How could you put down the death star run? Hanging my head.
the best scored & produced film in the genre ever
If Star Wars had given James Cameron a production credit, not a single fucking Chapo would say a bad word about it on pain of Will whooping their asses.
The Originals are gorgeous. The Prequels are pretty good. Rogue One is breathtaking. Even the Sequels look nice.
The originals are schlock by today's standards, but what they were competing against when they came out was unadulterated trash.
You can see the actors fighting their hardest against Lucas' directorship to make the prequels good. The prequels are not good. The main redemption of the prequels is the glut of CGI developments that came about as a result.
Rogue One is great. Solo is not great and probably killed other independent films in the setting.
The sequels are just bad.
I think the AT-ATs are slightly justified in the context they are first used in, that being: deep snow, heavy snowfall, facing artillery fire. It doesn't fully make sense, but the long legs to carry a hard shell over deep snow and have a decent vantage point for firing at relatively distant targets isn't awful. They did more or less overrun their target with nothing more than some tie fighter support, iirc
yeah how bad could they be if they won the battle :think-about-it:
This is a world where repulsorlifts exist, "realistically" why would you bother with legs?
(The correct answer is: Who the hell the cares? AT-ATs ARE SICK AS HELL BRO)
Because they are approaching a target that has pretty heavy firepower and they lack consistent cover, smaller vehicles like the bikes on Endor are not a good option. For something really big -- and therefore somewhat slower, though still faster than AT-ATs, there is the question of repulsors kicking up snow in its own face, which would make return fire difficult. It also might just crush the snow into water (it's fake science, so we don't know how it would react) which would make it very bad at dealing with deep snow.
"So why not just bomb the base from the sky?" Well a) I think they did but b) the armor issue and c) they had to reach the ground at some point. AT-ATs are dumb and tacky but, if you have access to all the general types of vehicles we've seen in the series, I think they are the best choice.
Spaceships in vacuum would definitely not handle like ww2 airplanes and they just fucking handwaved and technobabbled to justify it,
there are wizards in that movie it's clearly not completely grounded in science
There's gravity on the Millennium Falcon even before the wizards get there.
it's just not even remotely a movie about the science of space and the fact it doesn't care isn't really an issue
Most Sci-Fi is as much about the social and political ramifications of space travel as the science.
And considering how Asamov's Foundation series speculated at coal powered interplanetary ships while Heinlein's Martians were functionally wizards themselves... The science of Sci-Fi has always been dubious.
Ok, I’ll say it: I loved the last jedi. It’s like my favourite star wars movie.
folks I know we cannot agree on TLJ but surely we can all agree that TROS is entirely dogshit except for Babu Frik and Ian McDiarmid
folks I know we cannot agree on TLJ but surely we can all agree that TROS is entirely dogshit except for Babu Frik and Ian McDiarmid
yes
TROS is so bad it makes the other two significantly worse retroactively
Yeah half of the problem with TLJ is that it was a lead up for a really good movie that never fucking happened
Yeah, I can agree with this. That movie was even worse. How you manage that, I have no idea.
I really liked what TLJ tried to do, I just think it did it really poorly. For example the stuff on the casino planet was a very hamfisted allegory for the military industrial complex and war profiteers. That’s cool, though badly done. Rey’s parents being nobodies is great. But TROS throws every single thing set up by TLJ and throws it out immediately in exchange for the most insane bullshit imaginable, and it turns TLJ from a mediocre movie that provides a good setup for the next one to a shit movie.
I've already been arguing about TLJ today and the more I think about it the more I remember stupid stuff i.e. how they're on this low speed chase and people just like, leave, do stuff, come back, etc?? the empire's magic tracking tech ain't trackin' so hot. But most importantly it just felt weird and killed any feeling of suspense?
also the imperial fleet could have like, had 1-2 ships hyperspace in front of the rebel fleet, do a little skip jump ya know?
All of that stuff suuuucked. Seriously how do you have a vehicle chase where people are leaving and coming back during the chase
I keep thinking of the oj Simpson car chase which is weird because i wasn't old enough to even see it happen but it's like if that happened and they just let a passenger roll out, walk over to Wendy's for some baconators and shakes, and pop back inside after.
I guess their sensors couldn't detect their fighters, the same way they were blind to the shuttles, but it just felt weird and inconsistent with the action going on
I honestly didn't hate The Force Awakens. Yeah a lot of it was nostalgia porn and the overall plotline seemed samey but some of the characters were fun and I was hoping they would do something interesting with it.
Then I saw The Last Jedi and all my hopes melted away.
ngl TFA was pretty alright if for no other reason than seeing Harrison Ford actually (a) interested in acting in general and (b) interested in acting as Han Solo specifically.
Too many great Han moments to list, but:
- "Chewie, we're home."
- (You're Han Solo?!) "I used to be!"
- The pause and smile when he is back in the cockpit of the Falcon again
- "Oh, you're cold?!"
Props also to Mark Hamill for the wordless, wrenching look of weariness and dread in Luke's eyes as Rey urges him to takes his saber and answer the call one more time
