Imo one of the things that gets lost when trying to paint a broad "good guys vs bad guys" narrative in some conflicts (often because a simplified narrative is necessary when justifying intervention), even ones that end up genocidal in scale is how this stuff escalates. I remember Radio War Nerd discussing how in the initial onset of the Balkan conflicts of the 90s it was localized stochastic ethnic violence, followed by series of retributions, and this went on for months before escalating and involving centralized governments. Just because it's "random people" and it's stochastic violence, doesn't mean that people with institutional power won't be involved eventually, and it doesn't mean they won't take a side in what could end up a massacre.
I don't disagree with you on that.
Yesterday I saw a tweet in a thread by David Frum. It's basically an endorsement of DeSantis but the wording and the context gives Frum deniability. If DeSantis becomes president - Frum can always say "Trump would be worse."
Others disagree, but in my opinion, a DeSantis GOP nomination in 2024 represented a much better outcome for the whole country than a Trump return. Maybe you don't like DeSantis's manner or record, but he's a recognizably normal US politician. If defeated, he'd go peacefully. 9/x
Not only is DeSantis probably 100 times worse than Trump - his presidency would surely usher in open Christo Fascism with neo-brownshirts (white guys in wraparound Oakleys in camo) beating people on the street with impunity. And somehow the cops and the FBI never manage to even ID them much less arrest them. Eventually it will escalate to murder.
I'm Jewish and so is Frum. Somewhere in his poisoned brain - Frum must realize that even though Jews won't be the first targets - the fascists will get to us eventually. That's how it works. I bet he even knows the etymology of the word pogrom...
Yiddish and Russian, literally "devastation", from pogromit "destroy by the use of violence".
There's no asterisk that says
*devastation will end at edge of gated communities where right-wing Jews live. But Frum has convinced himself that people like him could never face any consequences. It simply is an impossibility. Frum will have to wait until somebody he knows he knocked to the ground by some rando who laughs and calls him a stupid Jew. Frum's acquiesce will call 911, the cops will come, and the cops laugh at him too.Frum will have to wait until somebody he knows he knocked to the ground by some rando who laughs and calls him a stupid Jew. Frum’s acquiesce will call 911, the cops will come, and the cops laugh at him too.
And then Frum will blame people who called for defunding the police.
That too. Oops. That's a notable oversight on my part. He'll write a 10,000 word article on defund in The Atlantic that nobody will read but right-wingers (and libs too) will quote.
"Violent attacks upon minorities must be understood through the prism of public attitudes towards the law and law enforcement. The 'defund the police' movement began a process of..." SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT THE FUCK UP!
It will probably be some bullshit about how that movement sent "rational cops" to the arms of the far right.
That certainly sounds like an argument he would make. I can't believe what nonsense passes for "discourse" in the US. Frum the nth example of something who can make vapid, trite argumentation sound good. He used to be a GOP speechwriter. He must be chomping at the bit for non-Trump GOP president.
He does stuff like ridicule Trump for fetishizing the concept of something being "right out of central casting". But Frum, himself, wants a version of that too. He wants war and violence and hate but he needs for it to be DeSantis or an equivalent. Some vile turd who can speak complete, sane sentences, is in the right-wing brain decent, and who won't embarrass Frum by being a moronic ass hat and kid's party clown in an ill-fitting suit.
open Christo Fascism with neo-brownshirts
If I was DeSantis I'd finish what trump started; Purging the civil service and executive branch and installing people loyal to me and my ideology. And DeSantis has an ideology in a way that Trump really doesn't.
so is Frum
I will never understand right wing Jews. The only way it makes sense is if you've got an escape plan to get to Israel and can leave at any moment, because otherwise you're constantly making common cause with people who hate you and want to exterminate you, and for the most part they're not even subtle about it. Like they're either completely delusion and think that the rest of the Right are genuinely their allies, or they think they can play with fire and duck out right before they get incinerated. I really don't understand it.
I assume DeSantis probably doesn't care if people get murdered on the street or not. But he wants power above all else. And I can imagine that if he's the president and he feels it will help him he says the "streets needs to be cleaned of... problems" knowing full-well that the hogs know that problems means filth. And that's anybody the hogs want to beat on or worse.
I hope I'm wrong but every time I watch even a brief clip of that turd - I get tense and my stomach knots up. I'm sure of one thing beyond any doubt - he's a vile fucker.
I hope I’m wrong
Nah he absolutely is that fascist. He's not going to stop at forcing every trans person in Florida to de-transition. He needs enemies to keep the CHUD's blood up, so he'll find the enemies he needs.
In the US the Cops are a sleeping nightmare that could activate and begin sectarian killings on an enormous scale at any time.
During the racial justice protests in 2020 I was somewhat shocked to see how much power cops had over city governments. It became clear to me then that mayors govern with the consent of the police, and not the other way around
Yeah I think it's pretty indisputable at this point that cities have no control what so ever over the police forces. Every attempt at defunding failed and the cops punished entire cities for trying with work stoppages, overt harassment campaigns (helicopters circling over residential areas all night) and the I'm sure there were murders.
the libs aren’t going to fight back
Come now. They'll give an endless number of passionate speeches.
I doubt they'll be all that passionate. My guess is the tone will be something more along the lines of "regrettable"
Why did half the Strausserites kill the other half during the Night Of Long Knives? How could the CIA go after its close ideological allies in the Nixon Administration during Watergate? What precipitated capitalists like Perot to turn on fellow oil tycoon Bush Sr in the '92 election? Why do Libertarians even exist in a country with a party as far-right as the GOP?
Gotta consolidate power in order secure it indefinitely. You can't have the next President sending the FBI in to raid the last one after every election cycle. So the current President will use existing powers to eliminate the competition and maintain office without challenge.
And you need a rump "loser" party to stash all your dissidents, in order to scapegoat them every time something goes wrong. The Democrats make for a great punching bag when they're out of power and a great Boogeyman when they're in power. Similarly, Democrats need a Strong Republican Party to wrestle with in order to keep the :maybe-later-kiddo: wing of the party loyal. Fascists fight other fascists at the bottom to keep control at the top. Otherwise, you end up with power-hungry lieutenants doing Operation Valkyrie shit on your charismatic leaders and dissident secret service putting bullets into the heads of your puppet presidents.
imo there's a big overlap between the nutcase lone wolf shooters and fascist admiration of individual "heroism", action, glorious death, etc etc.
Millán Astray, falangist general is said to have shouted, interrupting Miguel de Unamuno:
“¡Muera la inteligencia…! ¡Viva la muerte!”
Unamuno in response to Millán Astray:
“Estáis esperando mis palabras. Me conocéis bien, y sabéis que soy incapaz de permanecer en silencio. A veces, quedarse callado equivale a mentir. (...)Pero ahora acabo de oír el necrófilo e insensato grito “Viva la muerte” (…) esta ridícula paradoja me parece repelente (...) Me atormenta el pensar que el general Millán Astray pudiera dictar las normas de la psicología de la masa. Un mutilado que carezca de la grandeza espiritual de Cervantes, es de esperar que encuentre un terrible alivio viendo cómo se multiplican los inválidos a su alrededor (...) Venceréis porque tenéis sobrada fuerza bruta. Pero no convenceréis. Para convencer hay que persuadir. Y para persuadir necesitaríais algo que os falta: razón y derecho en la lucha”.
"You are waiting for my words. You know me well, and you know that I'm incapable of staying silent. Sometimes, staying silent is the same as lying. (...) But now I've just heard a necrophilic and stupid cry "Long live death" (...) this ridiculous paradox is repulsive (...) It hurts my head thinking that the general Millán Astray could dictate the norms of the psychology of the masses. A mutilated man (Millán, was shot various times because, shocker, he craved death) that lacks the great spirit of Cervantes, it was certain that you found a terrible relief seeing how the crippled multiply around you (...) You'll win because you have brute strength. But you won't convince. To convince you have to be able to persuade. And to persuade you'll need something you lack: reason and a right in your struggle."
Although Unamuno was kinda a doomer, we've seen this play out today. They're just not chanting "Long live Death" tho.
There's also a whole literature about adventurism and its limits on the left. If there's something similar on the right, it probably comes to different conclusions as right-wing violence has different effects.
The answer is as simple as that they're actually just fucking morons
they're too stupid to see how good they have it, how unfairly they've benefited, and also too stupid to think of how fucking annoying it would be to spend years of your life in a jail cell
how fucking annoying it would be to spend years of your life in a jail cell
The part I can never understand is why so many of them surrender. You've got a rifle right there. Why aren't you ending yourself instead of facing the rest of your life living in a box?
Cause they'll get a slap on the wrist. Cops will pat them on the back and take them to Burger King. They'll get some time in jail where the guards will be nice to them and they'll be welcomed into the Aryan Brotherhood or whatever white suprematist gang. Then they'll get out on good behavior after a couple easy years and go back to whatever they were doing before
maybe they should be doxxed and hunted down then in IRL not-minecraft
most of them are fundamentally cowards. Thats also why they tend to panic if someone shoots back, like the tacticool loser who tried assaulting a bank or fed building and was domed within 15 minuttes.
why are right-wingers so much more likely to do adventurism?
Unofficial sanction and support from the state and capital as long as they are targeting capital's enemies. Plus, their goal is to reinforce the existing status quo of wage slavery and race terror. They're moving with the stream, it's easy to achieve white supremacist and capitalist goals by murdering minorities and labor organizers.
Unless a Leftist has gone full nihilist then random violence doesn't serve any useful purpose. The same is not true for the CHUDs.
This is just my take but I think a significant percentage of them actually and actively fantasize about murdering their "enemies". And an enemy could be somebody they don't like. A tweet called recent ginormous pickup trucks "assault vehicles" and I can only wonder how many right-wingers dream of running their enemies down and how often they have that fantasy.
Related - https://hexbear.net/post/212780
I really worry what horrors await us in the next few years. I can imagine a chud clearly and openly committing murder in broad daylight by ramming a crowd of "leftist" protesters (who are just garden variety libs) but he claims there was a "technical error". Despite that he then jumps on social media to brag about the "crash" where he murdered seven people. The truck is checked over and over and over but no "technical errors" are found. The GOP local prosecutor has a press conference where he preens in front of the camera and declines to indict the murderer and uses ridiculous excuses. Within an hour of the broadcast- the murder is bragging on social media again.
And that sequence becomes normalized. By not only the GOP but also by democratic pols who keep insisting that justice will prevail. "How?" is not explained.
Reactionaries believe the world's most pressing problems are individual in nature and can be solved by individual action. Leftists believe the world's most pressing problems are systemic in nature and can be solved by collective action.
They're thinking about heroes. We're thinking about movements.
i have no idea who that is but yeah people aren't desperate enough for anything large-scale.
People are also extremely, extremely atomized. Like those guys who tried to kidnap Whitmer? It was like twelve guys who met in a chat room and four of them were feds. When the IRA was fighting the IRA cells were often made up of people who had known each other their entire life, grown up in Republican culture, fully understood the stakes and what kind of depravity the British were capable of. They could trust each other as much as any human being can be trusted. They knew the countryside intimately and could cooperate to move supplies and weapons. They had a well established network of popular support and allies in the civilian population. And even so, most IRA cells were eventually hunted down, even with all those advantages.
The CHUDs are just a bunch of random assholes with completely incoherent politics, extremely individualist beliefs, no clear goal, and no real support from the community (Like "I just shot someone and I need to live in your basement for six months" support or "I need to borrow your car and you need to not ask any questions" support or "Hold this package until a man named John comes to get it" support).
They're well armed and mobile so they can do individual attacks on soft targets, but for more organized, long term, serious operations they're not there yet.
it ain't gonna be an all-out war but a weird ass hybrid stochastic terrorist type shit war
There's been a Gladio-style Strategy Of Tension inflicted domestically since at least the 60s.
is it even a war if only one side does violence? that congressional baseball game doesn't count.
Counterpoint: The US Civil War never ended, it just went from a hot war to a cold war and is just going back to a hot war.
no, the union won the war of secession. the confederacy won the war for slavery, it just changed form.
Who would gain from a civil war? Sure, some screaming chuds in Trump hats would feel good about it but these people don't get to have political influence, they are just the useful idiots for a sector of the bourgeoisie.
For a civil war to happen you need the support of people with real power and the ability to supply an army to be in on the idea and the rich and powerful are very happy about the status quo. They already get everything they want so why would they do something risky like a civil war?
For a civil war to happen in the US you would need a federal government that was likely to follow proletarian class politics and threaten the bourgeoisie.
The actual ACW was instigated by the southern ruling elite, who were getting basically all of their demands met, who were economically reliant on the north, and who had next to zero chances of winning a war against the more populous and industrialized north.
If enough of the bourgeoisie are insane, it doesn't matter that they have nothing to gain.
this. Soyviking is right that the dominant strain of thought among the bourgeoisie is that domestic uprisings are bad for business, but they’re a much wider and more nuanced class in society than just the Bill Gates’ and Jeff Bezos’ of the world. local petite bourgeois interests (think car dealership owners, small restaurant chain operators, sometimes landlords) and a lot of extractive capital interests out west (think mining/logging company execs, cattle ranchers) are the ones rallying behind the far right figures in the USA today like Trump, Cawthorn, Boebert, and MTG. small capital seeking to overturn or speak over national/international capital has historically been a key feature of fascism, and it doesn’t just take the actual threat of leftist victories to make them a threat. they’re paranoid and irrational— simply the illusion or fear that ‘leftists’ or whatever force they’re afraid is corrupting the nation are making gains can incite them to violence. the holocaust didn’t happen because jews were secretly controlling and destroying germany, it happened because the Nazis and the armed mass/network of militias like the brownshirts convinced themselves they were.
civil war can happen here, very suddenly, and very brutally. millions of americans are willing to die and kill to ‘Make America Great Again’, and they’re not going to ask Wall Street or Washington’s permission to do so if they decide its time for their region of the US to secede.
civil war can happen here, very suddenly, and very brutally. millions of americans are willing to die and kill to ‘Make America Great Again’
tbh let 'em fuck around and find out
Germany was not even 1% Jewish when the holocaust happened this shopping mall is roughly 35% some flavor of existence that triggers them and gun ownership is widespread
if they tried to go holocaust you'd witness the complete and utter destruction of the US, and I don't even mean losing a war style, I mean depopulated by 40% and never coming back, Aztlan restored, Chinese California, etc
Another reason why I don't think chuds would start a civil war is that they won't have to. They can just take over the existing state. Who would put up a fight if the fascist supreme court declared that Joe Fascist is now the president? Liberals are too feckless, the left are too few. As long as the fash commits to upholding the institutional veneers of the US constitution they could take over everything with minimal resistance.
For a civil war to happen in the US you would need a federal government that was likely to follow proletarian class politics They already get everything they want so why would they do something risky like a civil war?
mayos hate non-white people more than they love money
even the briefest reading of US history should make this abundantly clear
I've been telling the liberals that it's gonna be reminiscent of the troubles in ireland
I just get told I'm overreacting, oh well
Well of course, because Liberals hate the IRA so it means they will be left out or be the British state/UVF
I feel nervous when my partner goes out to LGBT spaces now, that was never a thing before.
They want "others" to feel unsafe.
committed a massacre worse
I'm surprised too. I would have thought that my now they'd set a new record far above the 2017 Las Vegas mass shooting which had 50+ dead and ~900 injured. Coincidentally - in a couple weeks it will be the fifth anniversary of that shooting.
Dems can sing ‘God Bless America’
Part of me can't believe that they did that. But another part of me claps back saying "Of course they would, dummy!"
Lately it seems like they are going to do a half ass plot that fails immediately than they just kill themselves out of panic
