Wait are they serious?
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
:sartre-pipe: "Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."
:fedposting: I swear to God the feds been working over time lately to figure out a discourse that annoys every inch or my soul. Just the worst fuckin concept ever being peddled by the most annoying people ever
I think the fed plan is “anyone who understands what’s actually going on - drive them so insane they don’t do anything”
I'm pretty ok with this?
If the right latches onto this and larps it hard enough they're liable to undo some red scare propaganda. They're liable to do to the right what Bernie did to the left with his misuse of the word socialism. Laundering socialism and communism through misuse of the terms is a positive outcome for us overall, outright rejection of us because of a century of red scare propaganda and inherited trauma from the cold war is much more beneficial for the feds than this larp.
I mean I'm not OKAY with it but I see some positives with it? If that makes any sense at all.
I don't think this grift is hooking people from the right to turn left, it's hooking people who are left-curious and turning them right
It's not turning people left that I'm interested in, it's diluting the negative feelings people have to the word "communism" that interests me.
If the right starts using the word communism in a way that is completely divorced from what communism actually is but has the effect of making a bunch of the right no longer so hard to discuss the topic with then there is a positive to take from this.
Right, but I don't think there's any situation where the right is seeing or caring what haz says. This is only being seen by left-curious or left leaning people.
I see what you mean now yeah. What I'm getting at is if they succeed in larping this into right wing use. Dark Biden style.
It would be good if that's possible, like if hinkle or haz (lol, say that without chuckling) were genuinely trying to do that. I don't really think that's what these people are trying to do, though - they're not about any movement that isn't about themselves. Fingers crossed literally any good comes from it either way!
The other danger with this is that they end up conflating fascism and communism in the eyes of liberals that ends up making it functionally harder to turn left-leaning liberals if they've been burned by hearing about these chucklefucks first.
The anti-tankie ""anarchists"" who spend all their time punching left aren't helping by going around and telling people that these people are real communists and represent what tankies are. I say that not with sectarianism in mind but because I don't really consider that crowd actually anarchist, not because I have an issue with anarchists.
I think, or hope, that the saving grace here is that absolutely nobody knows who the fuck haz or hinkle are beyond a small set of twitter or streaming people. Same with the twitter/reddit anarchists who are just libs wearing a black and red hat, I hope.
I disagree. Misusing the terms muddies the waters and makes it more difficult to have any sort of consistent and coherent messaging. People end up with bizarre definitions from niche internet circles, and you if you try to unravel the brain worms then your time has been wasted and you've been taken off-message.
Besides, it won't seriously catch on with the chuds because they offer nothing. Why get everything you want but also have to mental gymnastics to accept communist anesthetics, just to ally with an irrelevant Twitter cult, when you already have a mainstream political party indulging your every whim in the culture war? Even if these idiots somehow succeeded in their goal of being allowed to sit at the MAGA table, the moment it became an issue, they'd get dropped like a sack of potatoes.
I definitely see your point yeah. I'm just terminally jaded and pessimistic about stuff like this tbh. There is also already a subsection of national socialist fascists that may peddle leftist ideas in thought but it's also white nationalist so it really isn't comparable to other forms of socialism by being racist af.
You know the last time a mustache dude misusing the term. Tragedy happen right?
How do they square the circle that Trump is not only a billionaire but also very un-friendly to communism?
:shrug-outta-hecks: maybe by ignoring the actual person and using symbol as an attempt to trick the magahogs?
these people think "communism is when the government does stuff and the more stuff it does the more communister it is"
i mean, at least Haz himself is pretty well read. a lot of his takes are god awful, but not due to a lack of understanding of Marxism.
they don't care, they're throwing shit at the wall and hoping it sticks to reap whatever capital can be attained by originating the movement
It's worth noting that Trump escalated tensions both with China and Russia during his presidency (trade and travel restrictions against the former, breaking disarmament treaties with the latter). Imperialism is a wholly bipartisan issue in the US. The Republicans care less about treaties and are more hostile and demanding in their cooperation with other "always the same map" countries than the Democrats, but they are not the isolationists that some people want to see in them.
No one posted the Marxist Trump copypasta yet? I'm disappointed, Hexbear. :downbear:
Folks, the bourgeois, they're no good, more and more people are saying it. All these workers— the biggest, we have the biggest workers— very handsome workers come up to me and say, Comrade Trump there is a specter haunting Europe, and you know what, they're right. These bourgeois are very nasty people, very very rude, and very unfair to the workers. They are stealing our surplus value and no one is doing anything about it. The proletariat comes up to me every day and says, Comrade Trump will you lead the revolution? And I gotta turn to them and say look, the instruments of capitalism will be used to bring about its destruction, believe me. The means of production, Obama never wanted to seize them. Well guess what? I'm seizing them. Landlords? They're done for folks. Everyone told me— they said, Comrade Trump you won't be the vanguard of the revolution and they would laugh, the media laughed the democrats laughed, guess who's laughing now?
Folks, what we did in 1917–the Revolution we call it, with a capital R–it's never been done before. So many big beautiful red flags, you couldn't even–now that, folks, that's a flag we stand up for, we don't kneel for our terrific red flag–and you couldn't even see the Winter Palace. You know the Mensheviks, and Renegade Kautsky, they said we couldn't do it! They said, "Oh, Vlad, the material conditions are bad, we have to have a bourgeois republic to develop the forces of production." You know what that means, right? Semi-feudal economy! Well, look at where we are now, Julius. We are going to develop the forces of production so fast it'll make your head spin. We are going to do in a generation what it took them many, many years to do.
We're bringing back bread, folks! And not just bread, but peace too–and you know, the Left-SRs, they're very nasty to me about Brest-Litovsk, they say I make bad deals with the Germans, even though, nobody does treaties better than me, and the Germans are tough, but when they deal with me they know my reputation, they know I make the best deals, and you know, many people in Germany, they say they want Lenin too! Little pickelhaub man is scared, because he knows that we have built an incredible movement, and we are gonna have world revolution, the biggest revolution anyone has ever had. But, still, you know, the fake bourgeois media, the white guards, they say "He colluded with the Germans, he got on the train, did this did that"–and they're just crazed. They are really crazed. Right. And we can't just let that happen, because there's nothing to do with Germany, nothing at all. Total witch hunt. Very unfair.
I just wanna know which one of you posted it while holding the lathe :disgost:
That is a lot of time to commit to something so obviously, incredibly idiotic
Alphabet agency ghouls are getting lazier by the day
Looking forward to Neoconservative Anarchism or whatever
And got banned for saying smoking weed turns you gay/makes you more feminine/turns cis guys into women.
i just remembered why i miss weed so much. it's like instant dysphoria remover.
There was the infrahaz account that got wiped, the remaining one was hexbear.net/u/darg
No one knows what it means, but it's provocative. It gets the people going! 🤡
Yeah the "left wing" Nazi Strasserites led by Ernst Rohm tried this shit broski - look up The Night of the Long Knives to find out how that worked out.
But these guys started off doing fake Leninist stuff and then embraced Trump after that... Very odd folks
i do think much of the anti-"tankie" BS that's spreading so exponentially is because of these pat-soc guys. maybe we can just saddle them with the tankie label, and when they inevitably implode they'll take it with them. and don't worry it's not like communism can be any more discredited esp among the left. we may eventually need a new ideological label. but hey when you are at the bottom only way is up!
is because of these pat-soc guys
it's just as much the dronies using the term to describe anyone slightly critical of neoliberalism (e.g. anarchists, DSAs).
If everyone just shut up about this instead of getting outraged it will disappear.
Man, I wish. But no matter how silent I get, these turds still float up to the top of my YouTube "Recommended" feed.
If this has any purpose beyond stupidity or grifting it can only be to discredit communism further to the eyes of liberals, soc-dems, anarchists etc.
I agree, in theory. But in practice, this just feels like people with too much money and time who lack any kind of coherent strategy throwing things against the wall to see what sticks. Who even clicks on these things, anyway? It's 2.5 hours long, ffs, and getting churned out daily? And its just a zoom call with a goofy splash screen?
This doesn't seem like anything other than another set of clout chasers churning the lowest-budget click bait they can manage. Like, if I were truly conspiracy minded, I'd blame this shit entirely on YouTube itself. They're just embracing their roll as Netflix for Weird Politicos and cutting the smallest possible checks to splatter their front page with this kind of content.
I'm not. It's essentially a confused belief that the working class as a whole is reactionary, instead of being divided into factions with the major camps being reflections of our political system of two fucking loud and annoying factions of liberal-conservative with the faction having the overwhelming majority being generally apolitical, and working off of said belief to tail the maga movement to somehow (I forget the word, an example would be: To undermine threats to the status quo, Capitalism takes revolutionary movements then it <Blank> and commodifies them in order to integrate them into the status quo and disarm them of their revolutionary capabilities) the maga movement and flip it onto its head and turn it into a communist movement.
my hypothesis is that they're of the belief that because China in it's revolution and current status has utilized an alliance with their national bourgeoise and petite bourgeoise, that the path they followed could be utilized by the american communist movement as well.
EDIT: thank you @Budwig_v_1337hoven the word was 'Co-opt'
What lack of theory does to a motherfucker. I don't get the USian impulse to think the working class is only made up of reactionary middle aged white men who work in manufacturing factories that barely exist in the US anymore
The working class today is largely service industry workers which happen to be women, right?
Yeah, its an insanely gendered idea of "working class" as "man in hard hat work." Completely erases most of the working class
Reminds me of when chuds used to photoshop Trump in a hardhat with grease on his face. They have such a romantic idea of "work" that's totally divorced from reality. Which is all rich because Trump's base are people who own jet ski dealerships and have never done manual labor in their life, they just love the aesthetic.
Hence, the small business owners are working class, baristas are elites takes
It’s typically because they don’t view anyone else as being on the same tier as a white man
working class is only made up of reactionary middle aged white men
They do make up a chunk of it. I would know since I get the privilage of listening to either the hottest of takes or the wildest of takes out of them every day.
Oh yeah they exist. But for some reason they're the only ones considered "working class." People in the US completely erase POC, women, immigrants, young people, as well as, other kinds of work like service industry, retail, etc.
:fidel-salute: braver than the troops enduring takes that hot comrade
I also do think it's attributed to the working environment you find yourself in. It's quite possible that a lot of these infra-dweebs work in places where reactionary european-americans work and experience the class struggle in a rather monochrome way.
Much like how a lack of exposure to diversity leads mee-maw and pawp-pawp to think every korean-american came from north Korea or literally anyone that speaks Spanish or Portuguese is from Mexico instead of just being normal people like them, I think these infradorks experience something similar and haven't experienced the class struggle beyond their own narrow perspective.
oversized pickup truck = working class
no pickup truck = liberal elite
to tail the maga movement to somehow (I forget the word
its literally Tailism lol. gotta follow the 'masses' (always the reactionary quarters of the working class somehow), not guide & educate them to genuine class consciousness. by some alchemy leaning on the consciousness already cultivated by the reactionary ruling class in !sub-sets! of the working class, the "communists" will be swept into power instead of the reactionaries who actually embody the ideology they're paying lipservice to
e: theres a very fine line between tailism and relying on the people outside of the party structure, tailism excuses the reactionary segments/beliefs of the people on the basis of their economic status, whereas vanguardism looks to and engages with the liberatory instincts & interests of the people to gain insight into what ought to be done
Capitalism takes revolutionary movements then it <Blank> and commodifies them in order to integrate them into the status quo and disarm them of their revolutionary capabilities) the maga movement and flip it onto its head and turn it into a communist movement.
Is it recuperation?
I think it's similar but not quite. I'll probably smack myself over the head and call myself a dumb duck when I do remember
Is it co-option? It sounds like they're trying to co-opt conservatism, which like.. good luck lmao
You nailed it on the head. much like how my hand just nailed itself on my head.
Lmao
2.5 hours lmao
Pstsocs died so they have to move onto the next grift for attention
MAGA communism is just like regular communism except you also rant about toilets not flushing the way they used to.
You'd possibly be right if this "movement" was larger than it is. Right now it's literally just a few exclusively online dweebs and some idiots that tried to infiltrate CPUSA.
Maybe it grows at some point but right now it's mostly just another meme ideology.
But why do the Democrats have to had fund them? They probably found a new niche that the algorithm organically boosted.
Oh damn I responded to the wrong thread.
The democrats are actively funding far right candidates because they think they will be easier to defeat. During Roy Moore's camoaign, they also hired a company to monitor Russian bot activity, but that company ended up coding a bunch of bots to promote Roy Moore, and then the dems came out and said that it was proof Roy Moore was funded by Russia.
They were slandering Trump as communist during his last campaign. Remember, they helped fund trumps campaign because they thought he would be easy to beat.
I refuse to believe there is an organic, authentic movement of maga communists. That means there's probably some money behind it, or there are some content creators trying to hook some grift bucks. So its either dark money on the right, peter thiel, etc., or dark money on the left and this fits with a larger and long term strategy of the dems to fund "extremist" ideology they can pin on the right to scare their base. I think its the Democrats, you know, based on my perception of their tactics and strategy.
https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2022/07/democrats-spend-millions-on-republican-primaries https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/19/us/alabama-senate-roy-jones-russia.html
I at least see the logic of Democrats funding their 'extremist' opponents, but I can't see why they would fund socially reactionary Marxist streamers.
I could see the growth of disillusioned, newly politicized, economically left-wing, anti-establishment, and conspiracy oriented people as a viewer demographic which these streamers managed to capitalize on.
But it's just speculation
