Listen up fuckers, cause none of this applies to anybody on this site specifically and I'm just bitching.
I don't have to accomodate neurotypicals who say horseshit like "I don't want to keep a tone tag reference sheet open to have a conversation though", that has officially stopped being a me problem. Similarly, if your response to that is "Communication is a two-way street, so a communication issue is often also a two-way thing", that doesn't sound like I have to accomodate YOUR misunderstanding of MY words, however you have decided to read them. If you decide even in spite of tone tags that I'm being an asshole, frankly get fucked and go decide someone else's emotional state for them. Hell, even if I didn't use tone tags, I shouldn't be required to fucking defend myself from your literal spurious accusations. I've had enough of your disingenuous assertions.
I'm pretty understanding about misreads, just ask me what I meant instead of fucking assuming the absolute worst in people all the time, and also do not go around expecting neurodiverse people to accomodate whatever YOU read into their words all the time. Your fucking problem. It's not their job to sort out your preconceptions and accept whatever emotions you decide for them, which was the point of what I was saying anyway. Ableist shit.
This type of thing has become pretty traumatic over the course of like ten of exactly this type of bullshit, so I don't have the will to cause problems and fight about it but I'm also not willing to constantly cede ground for free to neurotypical expectations.
"Hey that didn't feel great when you said that"
"Oh I'm sorry I'll try better next time thank you for telling me."
Literally that easy folks.
You're supposed to discern it from their word choice and body language and tone and volume and facial expression and word timing and subtle methods of subtextual communication that are trained into you from childhood
the fact that we have to do this manually doesn't matter to them
I don't want to keep a tone tag reference sheet open to have a conversation though
THERE'S LIKE 5 WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT
There are technically tons but yeah, nobody uses the weird ones much, just like /s, /srs, /lh, /j, /hj, /gen mostly?
tone indicators are for accessibility and, as such, should be used with full words and not shortenings
also /hj should never be used, it’s worse than useless [video of autistic person in-depth explaining why /half-joking makes statements even more difficult to understand, not more accessible]
I have heard that about /hj before, not surprising to me. Promise I won't do it. You think we should use the whole words, though? I only ever see short forms.
Depends on situation, like any abbreviations/jargon. If in a group that already understands it can be useful shorthand, but for maximum understanding, which is the entire point of tone indicators, full words are more useful to a general audience.
we need variations of sArCaSm CaSe for other tones.
Yeah I guess so? I was literally unaware that every /hj user is a nerd, til.
I know there are a lot, but I only see a handful actually used. They also seem really easy to remember? Like I remember when I saw that /s meant sarcasm and like
I didn't forget that? They seem very accessible and easy to remember to me.Yeah same, I kept the reference sheet next to me for a bit, Idk what the fuss is.
I don't think I ever saw tone tags used before I started using them myself, analogously to closing HTML tags.
Had to look up what a tone tag was. Didn’t know there’s a name for it or that it was used outside of Reddit. I assumed it originated from Reddit because it was a reference to HTML and everyone on Reddit is a stemlord
I knew em first from /s but they have become a tool for neurodiverse people :)
It is pretty toxic how rare it is for people to ask clarifying questions rather than just assuming the worst and taking the opportunity to dunk. Just no good at all and it can be tiring, not least because I'd like to believe the other person isn't that malicious or incompetent irl.
In my experience practicing deescalatory / "organizer mode" conversation irl can really help with this. I don't know why it does but it's like working out a muscle and it gets stronger over time and eventually it forces me to be more patient even with very wrong and belligerent people. In turn this actually helps me out because I get less frustrated overall and can put my limited emotional resources into other things. I have no idea if this would be helpful for you, just sharing something I've recognized in myself.
Exhausting even, must be "fun" fighting people all the time like that, if they keep doing it...
Hi I've never organised because I have big autism
Funny lefty lady also accused me of never de-escalating, Idk how or what that looks like. There's a part of me that says FUCK EM ITS THEIR FAULT but if I could avoid this stress going forward, I want to know. I'm not exactly being impatient with them though, the only thing I haven't budged on is: I won't give ground to zero effort neurotypicals, and if what I said doesn't apply to you it isn't hostile to you. I've been very polite and reasonable elsewise...De-esc is basically just manipulating someone by using language that may calm them down or otherwise defuse the situation. It can also be a physical thing like separating people or walking away. Luckily, the manipulation ends up becoming just acting like a very patient and deescalatory person so there isn't much downside.
In my experience I also think it's usually the other person's fault lol. They're often a bigot or otherwise a reactionary or dishonest or inconsistent or making other people unsafe. The main challenge and barrier is that despite knowing this, a direct confrontation is often the least productive course of action even though it's honest and the person on the other side should hear and understand their mistake. You could think of it like playing a game or building out a strategy where the win scenario is getting someone to stop doing what they're doing by basically lying to them or distracting them as if they're a child. Eventually, it may become second nature and therefore feel less dishonest to be "handling" someone (or it might not!).
Anyways I'm not saying you have to do this or anything, just want to share something that works for me and that I've seen work for a lot of people. And it's not about you taking any blame or responsibly for the situation, just methods of dealing with people. Most of the people I use this on are being shitty in some way, it's not like I blame myself for their behavior! Also no judgment for letting NT people know they fucked up.
Oh yeah I'm really bad at that sort of thing, there you go.
Yeah like in this case, the butthurt ableism! Idrk what the right approach here was, I know an anarchist who said I should have just replied "I wasn't being hostile", but of course I was grumpy that they'd DECIDED my TONE for me, so uh oops.
That's the trouble I have I guess, is the people doing this often have the most disagreeable fucking position humanly possible, why should I have to choose between what's right and not being stressed to death??? Fuck NTs for this,
em all.
I don’t identify as neurodivergent, but I tend to misread/assume negative (which is the result of my own set of traumas and history that I need to police). And it’s a stark contrast, because you’re saying you tend to be understanding as a neurodiverse individual with misreads, holy shit most neurotypical people are the exact opposite. Zero consideration that they might have been putting out negative signals, it must be the person misreading‘a fault.
That behaviour from neurotypicals often comes across as sanctimonious "how could you do this to me, I'm just a smol bean!!!" type shit as they accuse you of being the son of Mussolini. It also means they cannot imagine that you genuinely aren't assuming ill intent in people, it's bizarre. They end up projecting their own hostility onto you.
Me either, NTs just adore attacking people I guess! /s More seriously, I think they do genuinely get offended and hurt by... things they project onto us.
I'm doin' that right now I guess, so flay my ass if you're gonna. If people are willing to be nice to me I'm not gonna destroy them, I try to avoid conflict basically all the time. I hate with a passion when people just decide I've said something because I'm a bastard or whatever.
But yeah, they can accuse people of being mad all day and yet will lose their shit at same...
"Hey Gorb cheer up mate its not that bad"
Me literally sitting and vibing to music doing my work.
I cant even just sit quietly and enjoy my time alone with them getting uppity. NT's go in the bin
This here is nerd shit, I like looking at them with a deadpan expression and saying "I'm as cheery as can be" lol
/pos meaning positive but likely to be interpreted as piece of shit is also pretty funny
i’m just gonna put /nm after everything i post so that nobody can corncob me
I've forgotten what hj stands for and immediately thought of Hungry Jack's (called hj's by many).
I'm sure I'll find out somewhere in this thread
Hey guess what, fuck this guy. He sounds like a loser! Inconsiderate arsehole!
I know about people losing it when you get angry, and so I've basically filed all of mine down to nothing. Barely helps though.
That's almost /thread right there, so much of this deescribes so many issues I've had with NTs. Fuck em for this.
The tea is someone called me aggressive for this stance, so
I'm madI cried my eyes out lolSee here
This is because many people are illiterate. Literacy is more than just understanding all the words in front of you. Understand the intended audience is part of it. Understanding tone from what is written is another. Understanding the implicit meaning is another. Understanding the subject of the material another. Understanding the entirety of it and how each part works together to convey the message is another.
People are seriously lacking ALL OR MOST of these skills. It is a literacy problem. When you see someone respond to a tweet putting "some people" on blast as if it pertained to them personally, they are illiterate. They lack reading comprehension skills. They did not understand the subject and intended audience of the tweet. It may be due to some cognitive or learning issue but usually it is not. They simply cannot read well and were never really taught well. I find that this is largely Americans who have this issue.
It is not an online thing. This is a problem in general.
It's kind of a selfown when they respond to a nonspecifically-targeted statement as if it's targeted at them, like oh so you're one of the neurotypical bastards I'm talking about here?? I wish it was burger specific but this person lists their timezone as GMT+1, lmao.
I hate that this is a general problem, I thought it was a terminally-online, touch-grass thing...
It is frustrating. How about the words, "many people". It doesn't mean "most people" or even "the majority of of people". "Many" isn't a reference to a percentage of people at all. 10 people can be "many" or 1 billion people. How many times I have typed, "many Americans" or "many men" or something like that and gotten back "you can't make a blanket statement like that it's not ALL of them" is so goddamn consistent. Some would argue this is a communication issue and I firmly disagree because I think the majority of people underwstand this but it's always a small subset who don't. This is a literacy problem. At some point the goddamn reader needs to have some basic literacy skills and understand what the words mean and how they work with each other.
It's always in defense of privileged groups when they reply like that too, lol. I feel that sometimes people deliberately misread statements like that so they can air out their NOTALLMEN shit too.
Well, it's always the group they belong to, whether privileged or not. They'll do it on noncontroversial statements, too, and ones that aren't even negative. Which gives up the game that it's not something being done defensively. It is truly a literacy issue.
/s goes at the end because it's funnier. tags conveying important meaning should have the open tag too (this shit all comes from computer nerd shit) like the inverted leading punctuation used in spanish so that you read with the correct inflection the first time instead of having to re-read.
i'm 99% sure it's from html and we just dropped the brackets from </s> like people dropped the asterisk on trans*
I pepper end-smilies at the end of my sentences for that purpose 🤷
It conveys the same thing usually and helps with the missing body language.
Joke's on you fucker, they'll read it as being sarcastic!!! No winning.
I'll just assume I didn't add enough smilies. Oh you've done it now! 😤😤😤😤
Huh I've been doing it for decades without issues. I tend to stick to the standards though :D
Same. It is apparently "the passive-aggressive smiley face" and there I was doing it in earnest. This was one of the moments that cemented my understanding that I am not one of those people.
?
