https://unofficialbird.com/bidetmarxman/status/1621452328569307142#m
Somewhat overshadowed by yesterday’s “Chinese spy balloon” hysteria was the revelation that the CIA has recently been trying to broker a peace deal between Russia and Ukraine that involves offering 20% of Ukraine to Russia.
Both Kyiv and Moscow rejected the deal but it does raise an interesting question: why might “high-ranking German foreign politicians” have leaked this?
One possibility is that a faction within the German government is rebelling against the continued subjugation of the German economy for the furtherance of US geopolitical objectives.
If so, the leaking of the US-backed deal can be seen as an attempt to embarrass the Biden admin by exposing the vast chasm between their public rhetoric and their private actions and intentions.
Leaking this attempted deal would also perfectly highlight the fantasy of Ukraine as a sovereign state, when a country on the other side of the world supplies all the weapons to extend the conflict while also drawing up the terms of your surrender.
:this:
Funnily enough, a few hours after the Newsweek article was published, the White House issued a statement calling the existence of the offer “not accurate”.
As the old saying goes, never believe anything until it has been officially denied!
I'm anti-Putin (seriously, Putin is a total gangster), but how can anyone say Crimea and the Donbas belong to Kiev?
it's almost like putin wouldn't be in power if it weren't for the collapse of the USSR and the privatizations under yeltsin... which america applauded, took advantage of, and bankrolled.
Because it "sticks it" to Russia to have them be Ukranian, thats at least what the majority of people outside Ukraine think IMO.
Theres no real further thoughts beyond being anti-Russia, wether that be just purely hatred for Russia or some kind of reflexive liberal concern over how horrible it would be for the inhabitants if the areas become Russian/Russian-aligned.
It's deeper in the suburban :grillman: mentality and the same cause also has the effect of 55 year old women grabbing the shopping cart of someone shoplifting from CVS.
It's against the rules.
If you get all of your news from CNN and MSNBC you can't imagine a country not being fully united around the interest of their richest, American business friendly bourgeoisie.
Because Ukraine had them at the arbitrary point in time that we decided to count these things from, which makes taking them from the Ukraine illegal. Liberals will understand and feel an analogy to property rights very well.
In this conflict the western liberal-conservative ideology has determined that the private property analogy is the sole guiding principle for territorial disputes. This doesn't mean that it is applied the same to other disputes though, like Kosovo or Taiwan where other principles are applied. It is a typical example of the fascist ability to hold conflicting views, solely based on what helps the supremacy of fascists at the moment. Ukraine owning Crimea benefits the evil empire so therefore the talking classes of the empire believes that sovereign states can never be deprived of their territory. At the same time China having no right in Taiwan benefits the evil empire so therefore the talking classes of the empire will believe in the right to secession.
i had a radlib friend of mine who is otherwise clear-headed try to tell me that Russians in the Donbas are like Israeli settlers in Gaza
Because they were part of Ukraine for 60-70 years. It's been the status quo for most of everyone's lives (excluding those born after 2006).
NZZ is chuddy as hell, i wouldn't rule out they simply made this up. The US can easily afford the aid for Ukraine, the IMC loves this situation, gas companies obviously love selling their product to Germany at inflated prices, European NATO allies that were reluctant to increase military spending now go head over heels to build up their armies, there's no relevant political pressure in the US to end the war beyond some bickering from "i oppose supporting the current thing" chuds that never reaches the same traction as other culture war issues.
So why would AmeriKKKa want peace?
The US can easily afford the aid for Ukraine
healthcare pls :yes-honey-left:
all american media is run by fascists, and all western media is a highly suspect source.
In 1977, journalist Carl Bernstein revealed deep CIA connections with the big business media. More than 400 reporters collaborated with the CIA, with the consent of their bosses.
the entire US media ecosystem are tools of the bourgeoisie. if newsweek says the sky is blue and I quote them saying the sky is blue because I agree that the sky is blue, I shouldn't have to hunt down rachel maddow saying it instead.
In fact, a marxist anti-american news source I read quoted newsweek when they pointed out that most of the global south is not on NATO's side in this war. Newsweek in turn was quoting diplomats, who in turn were looking at UN votes. Just because that piece of information, whose source was a UN vote, passed through a dogshit source like newsweek, doesn't make it wrong
Difference being, you can confirm that those sources are in agreement, here you just have German bourgeoisie (who are currently in conflict with US Bourgeoisie) "leaking" this information to Newsweek.
I'm not saying MSNBC is a more trustworthy source than Newsweek, I'm saying watch that you're not spreading disinfo on behalf of competing bourgeois interests, that's all.
That's an extremely good deal for Russia that would end an expensive war
Maybe, maybe not?
Yeah, this war is costly on terms of money and manpower, but if Putin really views Ukraine as essential to Russia's potential to be independent from the west and a tenet of a multipolar world, then the stakes may as well be existential for him.
It may look like a de-escalation or detente, but cynically could be viewed as an invitation to the less overt hostilities, and it may not seem worth it to the party who already felt as though Ukraine abused diplomatic resolutions before, namely in regards to Minsk II.
Wasn't there supposed to be a deal in which part of the terms is that Ukraine cannot join NATO, but can get protection from them, both Russia and Ukraine were ready to accept it, but Boris Johnson destroyed it?
Well this deal is offering him most of what he wanted and if Ukraine goes against the deal again it would be without the donbass and having lost before
Is it?
Russia will be dragged into another war if the US starts one with China. It's not a good deal if it's only a temporary reprieve before a nuclear world war.
If the US and China get into a war everyone will die so everything would be pointless anyway. That's not going to happen though
The way the Americans refused to let Poland drag them into a nuclear war over that missile that killed two people is encouraging
Sure but the way rand is openly saying that Ukraine is sucking up military resources that are needed to "compete" with China is not.
they mean in stupid saber rattling and proxy wars in the middle east
All I ask for is that every last dog-avatar NAFO shit heel be called up for the draft to get obliterated by Russian artillery.
there's no justice in this world though so the only people who feel the cost of war would be the workers of the world
Very unconvinced this is real. I'm not really sure what's weird about the White House saying it's not accurate, and I'm also not sure who this is supposed to be owning, or from what angle.
I’m also not sure who this is supposed to be owning
imperialists and nato apologists
Amerikkka "offers peace" by forcing the country that it couped in 2014 and then pushed into an avoidable and unnecessary war to give up 20% of its territory
And that's... bad? In your view they should keep fighting until the reclaim every inch, to the last dead Ukrainian?
It's bad insofar as they shouldn't have done all that shit in the first place. It also represents a massive blow to the blind ideology that led them (NATO) to escalate in the first place. It's probably also not a genuine peace offer. These people sow conflict nonstop, because it is profitable, then whey the lose, they throw a shit fit, and put it on the back burner and switch focus. There is no real "peace.". You started this conversation by asking me who I was "trying to own." Now I must ask you, who are you trying to own? I'm dunking on the empire. Who are you dunking on?
No shit they shouldn't have started it in the first place. But I thought pretty much everyone on here was on the same page of wanting peace. Of calling for diplomatic solutions. If this is true, then to me it's a rare good thing that they're doing, ending the conflict is what I - and I thought all of us - want.
I started by asking who the story was trying to own and from what angle. If your whole approach is just trying to own NATO from any angle possible, that's how you end up with "NATO is bad for making a peace offer." Which they probably haven't done, because win or lose it doesn't make that big of a difference, they're getting what they want of funneling money to the MIC. If things go badly it just gives more reason to funnel more money. They have no reason to offer peace because they're warmongering ghouls.
If your perspective is that NATO is bad because they're making peace offers then all I can say is that this is a real case of :heartbreaking:. Apparently you hate them for the exact opposite reason that I do. I also want to dunk on NATO but the difference is that I want to dunk on them for being bloodthirsty psychos while you seem to be dunking on them for not being bloodthirsty enough.
If this is true, then to me it’s a rare good thing that they’re doing, ending the conflict is what I - and I thought all of us - want.
yeah, if it's true. Thing is, I don't trust that it's true. Because I've been watching the Amerikkkan empire rug pull everyone with false peace my whole life. "Peace" for America means putting violence on the back burner, not turning the stove off altogether.
If your whole approach is just trying to own NATO from any angle possible, that’s how you end up with “NATO is bad for making a peace offer.”
I'm jokerfied and laughing at imperialists for pretending that peace means starting another war, using an entire country as a meatshield, and then surrendering 20% of that country after screeching and shedding crocodile tears for an entire year how much they cared about that country's sovereignty
If this comes true, I’m fantasizing so hard about the liberal cope that would come from Russia getting everything it wants out of this war. Libs are going to say that things would have been different if :pete-eat: had been running things, that we should have deployed the whole fucking US and NATO military in Ukraine, and there will be an entire genre of movies for the next twenty years about the bazinga brigades going to fight for freedom in Ukraine but getting backstabbed by the (((corrupt globalist elites))) in the USA.
leaking this deal would sabotage peace talks not push for them
I have my doubts over whether or not this deal is true, but one thing I feel certain of is that Russia is more than willing to keep this going for as long as it takes to turn Ukraine into a completely ruined state functionally. Whether this comes as a result of significant annexation, a puppet regime, or doing to Ukraine what the US did to Libya, I’m not sure.
Russian leadership must know that if they leave Ukraine intact in any meaningful amount at this point it will be joining NATO and receive massive military funding, as well as a full decoupling with Moscow. Accepting a peace deal now will not have been a significant geopolitical material gain, in addition to guaranteeing another NATO state on Russia’s border.
to turn Ukraine into a completely ruined state functionally.
ukraine has been a completely ruined state since 1991.
Of course everybody on this site knows that, but I’m speaking in terms of not being able to provide basic state functions
If by "basic state functions." You mean social-democratic functions like social security, health care, taxing businesses, that sort of thing, i would argue that the Ukrainian state has not been able to provide basic state functions since 1991. They are a hyper-privatized state run by oligarchs, gangsters, cops, and right wing paramilitaries. Things have only gotten worse since the IMF got involved.
I don't see what the US would gain from a peace deal where Putin ends up with every single one of his military objectives accomplished.
cut their losses and not go on lending military equipment to a country that no longer has the ability to pay back their loans
That's literally the whole point of the war and ain't no way the Ghouls are backing off so easily.
I thought the point of the war was to destroy nordstream, diplomatically isolate Russia from Germany and other EU countries that were dependent on cheap energy from them, get those EU countries hooked on American liquid natural gas, and get a bunch of slavic people from former soviet countries to kill each other for no good reason. In that regard, the war's goals have largely been achieved.
Nato's goals: Keep America in, the Russians out, and the Germans down.
The longer this war is ongoing the more China and Russia have been making geopolitical gains. America probably wants it ended because it sees hegemony ticking away slowly
To be fair we don't know what the proposed peace deal said about Russia's non-tertitorial objectives, like the denazification and demilitarisation of the Ukraine that are as important to Russian national security as territorial gains.
Last ditch attempt to ensure a full fascist dictatorship takeover of Ukraine, ensuring that they stay a puppet of the USA for a little while longer.
here's MoA on this:
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/02/ukraine-sitrep-us-russia-talks-bakhmut-retreat-laughable-casualty-numbers.html
basically just a blog, successor site for the community around a blogger who stopped posting
what is the general orientation though? From what I can tell they are broadly anti-war realpolitkers who are not especially fond of the US and the Brecht quote is a bit of a dogwhistle—but there are no explicit statements.
it's hard to tell, I think the guy is German and an ex-member of the German armed forces. he sees through a bunch of imperialist bullshit but still has the occasional liberal brainworm, never seen them be explicitly Marxist or any commie dogwhistles
That's tough. Germany is also a growing regional power extremely threatened by the US & their ticket to independence was nordstream which is FUBAR now... The article I linked is good and seems telling of their general perspective: disturbed by the power of the war machine and overall cynical about empire but looking out for national interests.
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/01/nato-continues-its-disarmament.html#more
