The notion that Biden represents a lesser evil compared to the chaotic reign of Trump is a common argument. However, we must not forget that there exists a moral threshold below which neither choice is acceptable. To suggest that enabling a literal genocide can be considered a lesser evil is a morally bankrupt stance.
Saying that voting for Biden is a moral obligation to prevent the return of Trump perpetuates a dangerous fallacy. It implies that the democratic party is immune from scrutiny and accountability, no matter the atrocities they commit. This line of thinking allows for a never-ending cycle of justification, as long as there's somebody considered worse, the democrats are granted a blank check. This is nothing more than a form of gaslighting, manipulating the public into believing that their only choice is between two evils, rather than demanding a better standard of leadership and true representation.
I’m not even sold on Biden being the lesser evil to be quite honest
If nothing else, Trump is a lazy moron who pisses off everyone around him and provokes a lot of opposition
When Trump said “Less covid tests means less covid cases” everyone got pissed off. Biden made it policy. Trump wanted to ban TikTok, no one did anything about it and he got lazy and gave up. Biden passed the fucking thing.
The fact that Trump is a lazy slob who makes the liberals incredibly upset makes him marginally better than Biden imo
yeah biden is worse on the border, oil drilling, ukraine, and is an ideological zionist.
when trump does horrible things at least liberals frequently normalize being against them instead of making excuses
I aways like to point out it was the libs who normalized cages at the border not Trump
In 2018 even mainstream dems outside the squad were condemning the atrocity of locked up children, now they're to the right of Trump and want to expand border repression in every aspect
Under Trump libs at least bothered to wear masks. I think if he came back virtue signaling masking would make a comeback (not nearly enough people and probably a lot of cloth masks, but still).
I agree 100% I am European so probably I should stfu about US politics but since here we are living a similar situation with libs supporting genocide and far-right crackheads promising all kind of things (outlawing homosexuality, expelling all immigrants, ban disabled people from classrooms, etc.) I think that experiencing the "worst" is useful to awaken consciences and, moreover, I am so resigned I do not even thing the "worst" can be avoided at this point. People just vote for them.
You forgot a big one which is that Trump said Europe needs to start paying its fair share in nato security, Biden got them to actually do it and on top of that destroyed their energy security.
I very much agree, and what makes liberals so upset about Trump is that he just openly says what he's doing. Libs require a level of decorum along with the genocide.
Yeah sure, I'll vote.
For the most commie left 3rd-party I can find
Same
And I'll write them in if they're not on the ballot, I don't give a shit if they throw it away
Libs in 2030: We must vote for 300% Hitler in order to prevent 400% Hitler from coming to power.
I've voted in every local and national election since I was first able to vote and I absolutely cannot give one fuck about it this year. I'm so insanely disillusioned with my local politics that I haven't even looked at my voter's pamphlet. I still feel like I should vote for props and measures but it's gonna be painful to even look at
The notion that Biden represents a lesser evil compared to the chaotic reign of Trump is a common argument. However, we must not forget that there exists a moral threshold below which neither choice is acceptable. To suggest that enabling a literal genocide can be considered a lesser evil is a morally bankrupt stance.
Liberals will vote for fascism if you place a fascist next to an embarrassing fascist.
Liberals will not actively fight fascism, they will assimilate to it. Those that do not will cease to be liberals and find their way to leftist ideologies.
the best way for Hitler to have prevented internal dissent was for him to allow a Definitely Not Nazi Party to run against him with Goebbels at its head. almost exactly the same concept going on in present-day America.
even the mere idea of challenging the system that is upholding a genocidal fascist is completely wiped away in the minds of liberals as they flitter like moths to a flame towards the theater of an election which many of them even admit will be between 99% Hitler and 100% Hitler. give liberals a bunch of buttons that are disconnected from anything and they'll still mash them over and over in their panic rather than walking away from the control panel
Blue MAGA will scold us over subjects like gay rights - rights they didn't fight over to get them to where they finally were when the sea change was inevitable and they "evolved" on such issues.
Yeah, gay rights should be such an illuminating issue. The Liberals avoided doing anything positive and had a decent number of "centrist/moderate" politicians against gay rights. And they just avoided it and just vaguely said that they don't support active violence and persecution while not accepting gay people. But they were the good ones because some Republicans were in favor of stoning. But, eventually the Supreme Court made gay marriage happen so no Democrat or elected official had to show courage or principles on the subject, and once it was no longer an active issue for elected representatives and polling said it would be a hindrance to electoral viability for a Democrat to be anti-Gay Marriage, suddenly Hillary, Biden, Obama, etc. had a change of heart on their personal stance.
It's a good example for the reasons you outlined but it's also so recent that we all pretty much have living memory of the dems flipping on the issue. There are plenty of other historical examples though, such as the civil rights movement. Standing on the sidelines and until the last moment and then pretending they were always in the fight. Since libs love their pop culture references I'm gonna say that the modern careerist Democrat is the equivalent of Walder Frey from Game of Thrones. I don't know Harry Potter enough to do one of those comparisons.
When in doubt, just call them all Dolores Umbridge
Jk, that's just Hillary
Ok, I'm done baiting libs.
I think the centrist politician who ends up just doing evil is the Minister of Magic Cornelius Fudge who pretends to be totally oblivious to all the shit going on until literally wizard Adolf Hitler is alive again in front of him.
The notion that Biden represents a lesser evil compared to the chaotic reign of Trump is a common argument
I don't understand how people come this conclusion. Surely people who read theory know Biden is also fascist?
Cpusa
: the only way for any communist party in a nation to be recognized as a communist party of their nation is by becoming a formal member of the "The International Meeting of Communist and Workers' Parties (IMCWP)". And as the one true communist party of America, and the only formal member of the IMCWP, we will block any upstart group from joining and participating and run media campaigns claiming we're the only American communist party recognized by the international Communist movement!side note, I'd personally disagree and say my party is the real CPUSA with regards to history and all that, but I see what you're getting at
This would be my response:
Biden and the DNC need to do more to prevent another Trump presidency.
They ran Hillary despite her being deeply unpopular. They almost ran her on a "It's Her Turn" campaign.
As far as I'm concerned they let Trump win.
And now they're doing it again while scolding people because they are convinced of the notion that Democratic Party cannot fail, it can only be failed and that they are entitled to votes rather than showing a true commitment to representative democracy by literally representing the politics that is most popular based on a democratic consensus.
They are a parody of liberal democracy.
Demanding that people hold their nose and vote didn't work the last time Trump was elected. Instead of yelling at people to vote against their interests, you should be yelling at the Democratic Party to start representing the people's interests.
(I would possibly throw in a jab about how they might be a rank political opportunist of such a degree that they can vote on the basis of someone who they do not believe in and have zero faith in but you need more than that.
Elsewhere I have outlined an argument to get them to discuss how Biden hasn't been able to address any of your concerns, in as much detail as they are willing to go into, before telling them that you have no faith in Biden and you cannot in good conscience vote for him because they have just convinced you that he is completely incapable of achieving anything and this would mean voting for him would be throwing your vote away - it's very hard for someone to backpedal after they've just spent the last 15+ minutes excusing all of Biden's inaction, even moreso when you understand that the only way they can about-face is by implicitly arguing that Biden can in fact achieve change for the things that are important to you but he simply chooses not to act.)
it was Hillary's strategy in collusion with corporate media to elevate the most extreme GOP candidates (Trump, Cruz, Cain iirc) so that the nominee would be easier to defeat in the general. and it worked out great
I'm sympathetic to lesser evilism, but what libs fail to do is apply it holistically. Biden is the competent fascist, Trump is the incompetent fascist, and that seriously complicates the question of which is actually the lesser evil.
And since I can't tell I'm just going to stay out of it.
That's also a really good point, dems can get away with more because they do the hand wringing publicly acting as if they're doing heinous shit against their will. What they're doing in Gaza is a perfect example of this dynamic. They just keep saying how they're working to stop the genocide, which is what people want to hear, while actively doing everything to facilitate it. And another related factor is that while most people do find republicans appalling, there is enough of a base that doesn't. So, republicans can always come out and say the most heinous shit that's going to scare the majority precisely because there's a significant minority that wants it. So, the threat of the greater evil is always going to be there.
Liberals actually care about shit when theres a republican in office so its not really beneficial if a dem is
exactly, when trump was in, we heard about the atrocities on the news 24/7, then biden gets in and crickets
I think that making reference to a "moral threshold" might be useful in scoring points on libs but is to the detriment of a material analysis.
The reason to oppose both is not any such "moral threshold", it's because we need to build a left that is capable of extracting concessions and eventually of winning power, one that bears fealty to the proletariat and not the bourgeoisie. Surrendering our vote to the less-right of two rightists is not the way to build a left.
The real "gaslighting", if we need to use that term, is therefore in the idea that this is the most important election of our lifetime when that was last election, and the one before that, and will be the next one too! Whatever the current election is will be, according to these miserable liberals, "the most important election". This question-begging obfuscates that there is a future beyond 2027, that all of politics is not totalized in the upcoming election, but part of an ongoing and interconnected series of events where there are things more important than getting the supposedly less-bad president one time.
Libs are allergic to political power that's not held by the same old dudes as ever
On the topic of how electoralism connects to building the left, I keep seeing radlibs saying "we have to vote for the candidate that creates preferable conditions for us to organize under." Sounds like a great argument in a vacuum, sure, why shouldn't we try to make it easier to organize and agitate by any means necessary? Except in practice, the only difference you're making is that one candidate will call in the national guard in the 2nd day of a general strike, the other on the 3rd. Not to mention the DHS and the FBI operate exactly the same regardless of admin. The only time we should take this matter into consideration is if a president is genuinely going to take power from those institutions, but an Irish fella got domed the last time a president thought of doing that.
Yeah, it's just a recolored "but trump". The Presidential vote should be part of the organizing! Specifically, withholding it! What else are you going to organize around on a national level if not that? How else are you going to do the only valid form of "harm reduction", extracting concessions instead of just supporting Joe unconditionally?
I agree, but you'll get CPUSA types going saying that yeah we're trying to build grassroots power, but you still gotta vote for the dems. My argument is that there needs to be acceptance and understanding that neither party is the lesser evil. Voting for either flavor of fascism is still helping perpetuate fascism in the end. What the act of voting accomplishes is to legitimize the system.
That's true. You probably remember the story where Biden got into an argument with a reporter where the reporter cited a poll saying most people didn't want Biden to run and he countered that most said they would vote for him. Our interpretation of these things is openly also Biden's interpretation in that respect, i.e. support is support, and commentary offered alongside an unconditional vote goes in the trash.
Biden must lose. The Democrats learning they can get away with genocide would be worse than anything Trump may do
Exactly, they're basically saying they can't be held accountable for anything.
