Link to the tweet - https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1671370284102819841
: "To find out who rules over you, simply find out who you're not allowed to criticize.": "Trans people are not allowed to call cis people cis in retaliation for cis people calling for their deaths."https://www.futureconscience.com/spacex-and-the-global-military-industrial-complex/
The cis/trans dichotomy referring to gender was used in Germany as early as 1914. It's not a new word - over a century old! It was coined independently again on Usenet in English because trans and cis are both Latin prefixes. It's not a fucking slur.
i was reflexively uncomfortable with the label 10+ years ago despite not having figured out that i don't have gender
frankly i don't think most cis people actually identify with their gender because they've never thought about it and just coast along on the social default. certainly they don't go through a process or journey the way most non-cis come to our identity labels. If "identify" means proactive and intentional then most cis people don't have a gender identity, only performance.
I don’t think “identify” has to be proactive and intentional. Cis people don’t feel their gender because the entirety of society is set up to passively affirm their gender. They still get upset at being misgendered and would feel dysphoric if they were to live as the opposite gender. When you say, “I don’t feel like I have a gender,” it’s because you’ve put effort into relating your experiences to others’ and found that you just don’t experience certain things that others seem to. When a cis person says, “I don’t feel like I have a gender,” it’s because their gender doesn’t cause them regular pain and they don’t think of whatever they enjoy about it as “part of” their gender. If a man wears a suit and feels good about himself, he doesn’t associate that with his gender, but that experience could very much be considered gender euphoria.
Cis people don’t feel their gender because the entirety of society is set up to passively affirm their gender.
in some ways yes, but in other ways it's constantly assaulting peoples' gender to sell them ridiculous things like tactical baby wipes or extract a pink tax.
If a man wears a suit and feels good about himself, he doesn’t associate that with his gender
sometimes they do. "x makes me feel like a man" isn't a completely alien concept to the cis
What if I did kinda have a journey and just ended back up where I started?
I like how you came up with two possible responses and just decided to use both. o7 high tier posting.
genuinely surprised that it occurs often enough to have a name
i said "most". it's somewhat rare that you actually thought about it. we do need to talk about people like you more, sometimes questioning does resolve to "yeah cisheterarchy guessed corectly" and automatically assuming questioning = queer reinforces some bad social dynamics.
Yeah, I was raised pretty religious. So when I got out I realized that I might have a lot of hidden assumptions that might not be true, turns out I just like women lol.
i don't think most cis people actually identify with their gender
There's definitely a "normal" and "other" attitude towards gender. But I've seen no shortage of insecure cis people obsessed with playing up their roles in one variant or another in an effort to gain social standing.
Hypermasculinity and hyperfeminity as marketing tools regularly drive people into hysterics over their own gender.
If "identify" means proactive and intentional then most cis people don't have a gender identity, only performance.
Idk about that. I think you're confusing identity with anxiety. Cis-folk naturally confirming to their internal gender role don't have to square the circle between social expectations and self-perceptions because they already match.
But when the standards for masculinity or feminity change, they experience the same anxiety-by-contradiction when their personal identity strays from the social norm. Does this contradiction between internal and external perception mean the resolution has to be performative? What does that say about trans-folk? Are they aligned with their gender or are they simply performing as their gender to satisfy social anxiety?
How would a cis-person or a trans-person all alone in the woods behave, absent any social performative expectation of gender? How would a man or a woman behave, broadly speaking?
There's definitely a "normal" and "other" attitude towards gender. But I've seen no shortage of insecure cis people obsessed with playing up their roles in one variant or another in an effort to gain social standing.
and on our end we have GNC people torturing themselves to conform and things like denial beards. How do you tell somebody is doing that stuff because they enjoy it and feel good about it instead of doing it because they think they need to or their parents abused them if they didn't?
How would a cis-person or a trans-person all alone in the woods behave, absent any social performative expectation of gender? How would a man or a woman behave, broadly speaking?
you can't engage with semiotics or gender roles if there aren't any. people with gender assert that they'd feel something in the woods or in an alien society with no concept of gender, and i have no reason to doubt them. It's the social context of performance that makes it affirming, not the physical action of the performance.
you can't engage with semiotics or gender roles if there aren't any.
It definitely gets into a confusing space. Reminds me of the Contrapoints line about the Feminine Penis.
If I'm alone in the woods, what gender is my penis? Do I feel natural growing a beard? What is my identity?
Even cis people think about this stuff. Even cis people who don't have other people around to judge them for it.
people with gender assert that they'd feel something in the woods or in an alien society with no concept of gender, and i have no reason to doubt them.
I'd agree, to some extent. But without established social touchstones, I imagine a lot of what gender becomes is ultimately what you personally invent.
You can have a sense of gender that would be utterly alien to a modern American. A person with a beard and a penis who feels right at home, but still conceives of herself as a woman, for instance.
You can have a sense of gender that would be utterly alien to a modern American. A person with a beard and a penis who feels right at home, but still conceives of herself as a woman, for instance.
i'm not sure how our woods woman is inventing the concept without any access to our culture? the labels we use to describe a poorly understood neurological feature only carry meaning because of the cultural context they arose in.
normal
sexless capitalist worker drone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Women_Have_Better_Sex_Under_Socialism
l think that tracks, especially since genuine "normality" - for what it's worth - seems to stem from a lack of interest in one's own preferences and circumstances.
See also American right wingers leaning on that "silent majority" imagery. If you have to actively identify yourself as normal, you probably aren't. Normal isn't somewhere you go, it's somewhere you end up.
In the replies: some TERF saying it was invented by a pedo, and Elon agreeing with her
I would just like to say, as a cisgender person, I officially give all my trans and NB/genderqueer comrades a C-word pass. Anyone gives you flak for it, tell them PKMKII gave you permission.
if they're slurs on twitter that means he won't do anything about them, right? gottem
Guy he's replying to:
Yesterday, after posting a Tweet saying that I reject the word ‘cis’ and don’t wish to be called it, I receive a slew of messages from trans activists calling me “cissy” and telling me that I am ‘cis’ “whether or not I like it”.
Just imagine if the roles were reversed.
"Yesterday, after posting a Tweet saying that I reject the word ‘straight’ and don’t wish to be called it, I receive a slew of messages from gay activists calling me “straighty” and telling me that I am ‘straight’ “whether or not I like it”."
This was the discourse on Tumblr like 4 years ago. Catch up Twitter-heads.
Just imagine if the roles were reversed.
Does he think trans people have a problem with being called trans?? Is there a single trans person that rejects the word "trans"???
Edit: FTM/MTF binary trans people at least
I do recall in the late 1990s / early 2000s some HBS-ers rejected the term transgender, but it's a pretty rare thing.
ETA: Some agender and NB folks prefer not to be called trans, but they also don't ID with the cis label so
transgender implies a gender is present, which rubs some of us the wrong way.
same/across implies some kind of midpoint and there's plenty of room to be what we might eventually decide to call "cis NB", or since the midpoint is implied now we have three points and that implies a line and somebody might not be on that line at all so saying their gender is across from the one assigned at birth doesn't make sense either.
or it could just be a specificity thing. I'm from "north america" but there's basically never a reason to be so vague when we could just say a country or state/province and binary trans people don't have a more specific label to use or rally around.
“trans” just means that you don’t identify with your AGAB. In a society without genital-vibe-based gender assignment, there would likely still be gender categories, but “cis” and “trans” would not have one-to-one equivalents.
The whole reason they pretend to hate the word "cis" is because the next thing they'll say is that they can just be called men or women and that that should be enough because transness is fake. Nothing but fascist word games
I mean, the trans equivalent of "cissy" is a slur.
What we're seeing is folks bullying people with the term "cis," morphing that term into something that sounds harsher for greater bullying effect, then going
at the reactionary response.The reactionary response is not sincere, but is meant to appeal to ordinary people who aren't too invested in The Discourse. A lot of those people think "well it's not appropriate to call a trans person a _______, so it makes sense to not call cis people cissies." At best it's an uphill battle to explain our way out of that one, at worst it's an easy excuse for people to write off all the important stuff we have to say.
At some point we have to re-evaluate how effective bullying chuds actually is, or what kind of bullying we should be doing. I think we really overplay it at times, which is easy to do because it's fun and owning people feels like winning.
It's pretty simple. You just say it's not equivalent. Cis people don't have to worry about facing violence for being themselves or using a restroom.
It's the same facile BS like comparing gender dysphoria to schizophrenia.
"Well, what if this thing was actually this other thing." Well, it isn't.
I agree that it will be an uphill battle to explain the difference between tone policing marginalized people with legitimate frustrations, and reactionaries effectively calling for them to be put in camps or social murdered, but we kind of have to make them take that pill.
Their conception of the world where there is no metagame to for example public discourse, only bad words and good words, needs to be corrected if they're going to be any use at all to us.
I lean toward walking into the "gotcha" and coming prepared to use it as a teaching opportunity. If we're picking our battles I genuinely think this one is a good choice because it's extremely relevant to just about every axis on the kyriarchy.
Queer people are so much better at posting the c** people.
DURING FUCKING PRIDE MONTH smdh my damn head
the only upshot is this actually weaponizes the term "cis". Hopefully at some point "cisses" holds the same power over these nerds as "cracker" does
lol, there are even chuds complaining about
in the replies. Not being able to say slurs in any context must have broken their brains.its too late Elon I've already reclaimed "cis". now it unites & uplifts the cis community. cissies rise up
If we could harness the power of white cis people to victimize themselves we could end big oil
A hydroelectric dam across the entire width of America powered by impotent, narcissistic tears.
cis
