https://time.com/6999810/political-violence-america-trump-rally/
Well, violence was already normalized in every other sphere of American life, I guess it was only a matter of time. Look at the Trump shooter, by American standards, the only weird thing about him is that he went after someone important instead of just shooting up his local school or walmart.
the only weird thing about him is that he went after someone important
Starting trends?
Most people don't seem to understand the fact that the state has monopoly on legal violence.
I agree with all of that, but I think what's relevant here is that more people are becoming willing to aim the violence in the other direction, from the masses and towards the state. You are 100% right that political violence has always been normalized and accepted, but specifically (like in your example) it was the state use of violence against people that was normalized and accepted while people using violence against the state was broadly considered not just taboo but immoral.
The numbers in OP aren't just describing an increase in acceptance of all "political violence," but an acceptance for the masses to wield that political violence against the state, which is a very interesting, maybe even profound shift, a shift that is indicative of the ongoing collapse of the empire.
Gotta be honest, that infographic is kinda uninformative wrt the actual rate of increase. You made me read! 💢
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1 in 10 in the 1990s said violent action against the government can be justified
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Serious threats against federal judges that trigger an investigation rose from 179 in 2019 to 457 in 2023
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Threats against members of Congress are up nearly tenfold since 2015
Threats against members of Congress are up nearly tenfold since 2015
Cool and good
In theory sure but I guarantee the majority of these are chuds threatening the more progressive members of congress (or threatening regular Democrats because chud Media told them they are basically Stalin).
Those "progressive" members of congress are complicit in genocide too.
I don't have much sympathy to spare for them.
OK first of all Tlaib and Bush have been consistent on Palestine so thats not even true.
Second of all right wing political violence is bad! We should not support it regardless of our enjoyment for the victims because when they succeed they are empowered. Supporting fascists killing liberals is fucking stupid. What are you going to be like "based Attomwaffen" lol?
You managed to list two people who don't deserve the wall, congrats.
I don't care if fascists kill other fascists though. And that's what liberals are. "Progressive" isn't really a useful term as it means different things for different people. People here have a general idea of what you mean if you call someone a liberal though, at least that's the case on hexbear.
I don't care if fascists kill other fascists though. And that's what liberals are.
And this is the ideological dead end that "liberals are the exact same thing as fascists" leads us to I guess. Actually believing that if an overtly fascist organization successfully assassinates a liberal public figure it would be a good thing because a "fascist" died. Like no, there is a material difference between liberals and fascists and I'm tired of people here saying otherwise partially because it leads to these absurd conclusions.
People here have a general idea of what you mean if you call someone a liberal though, at least that's the case on hexbear.
Apparently not! Since it means two different things to you and me. If you think there's no material difference between AOC and Attomwaffen, you are extremely lost.
Like would I mourn her as a individual person? No lol. Would I consider it a political loss for all of us? Absolutely. And not because of what I think AOC can accomplish or whatever. But because we don't want the overtly fascist organizations to get a win. When they get a win, they seek more wins. They like winning. If you think that kind of increasing right wing political violence only gets aimed at liberals and not the actual left (or just completely innocent minorities) you got another thing coming lmao.
I wouldn't even have liked it if "Hang Mike Pence" had worked out for them for this reason. Once it was a stated goal of the far far right, I didnt want it to happen, or at least not for them to do it. It would have been cool if we did it (if it was organized and had a stated, specific purpose and wasnt just random adventurism) but that wasn't what was happening.
I'm not going to debate you on this. It's a waste of my time and I have better shit to do. Have a good day.
Edit: you're also grossly mischaracterizing me when you assume I think liberals and fascists are exactly the same. I'm simply not going to engage with you further on this.
Alright, I was going to take that as a disengage and move on before the edit, but as I understand the disengage rule, you saying something about me negates it because it becomes an attempt to get in the last word.
You said
I don't care if fascists kill other fascists though. And that's what liberals are.
How else was I meant to take that other than you think liberals and fascists are the same? You literally said so there lol. What else could "And that's what liberals are" mean?
Fine, I'll keep this going to explain this clearly to you.
Liberals enable fascists to enact their policies. Fascists will put policies in place, and when liberals are in power, they do nothing to reverse the damage that fascists have done. In fact in many ways, they make it worse because they normalize it. We still have concentration camps on the border, liberals just pretend they don't exist anymore.
Then there's the continued support for genocide and war. Anyone who opposes their policies are called a Russian or Chinese asset, furthering hatred for foreigners, spurring on hate crimes and shifting the political spectrum further to the right. Then there's the so called "progressives" who pretend to reform the party while at the same time continuing to work with the liberals who continue to rot the government from the inside.
There's a reason we say "prick a liberal and a fascist bleeds." They are one bad day away from throwing minorities under the bus. And if they don't throw those minorities under the bus themselves, they'll stand on the sidelines virtue signaling about how "we need to help that person, they're about to get ran over!" But will take no action themselves in order to get the person out of the way, or stop the bus entirely.
Sure. It sucks when fascists get their way. But if they shoot the person who's about to stab me in the back, that's still one less enemy for me to worry about. And maybe it'll set an example for other liberals by showing them what they get for playing stupid games and flirting with fascists.
Well, ok, I agree with everything you said except the last part. I think you're ignoring the incredibly essential "empowerment" part of what I'm saying. I'm not just mad that they got a win becuase they're my enemy or whatever. I'm mad that they got a win because that increases their power and will to do more violence, and that increased will to do more violence can eventually come for me and the people I care about. I completely disagree that if a fash kills a liberal its good because the liberal is bad, and I guess we're just going to have to leave it there.
This seems more like it might be a polling issue given the rise of the internet since the 1990s. Nowadays It's absolutely much easier for the average person to make a threat against a politician and get away with it than it was in the 90s.
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What percent of that violence is right wingers trying to combat imaginary enemies entirely disconnected from reality?
That first statistic is so funny. It reminds me of conversations that are like "He's a felon, but it was for drugs." "Oh, who cares?" It's the same thing except you'd go
"They're a murderer, but they murked a politician"
"Oh shit, which one?"
[My lawyer suggests I don't include this line]
"Oh, that rocks! Can we invite them over for dinner? I'll bring out the fine china"
taking violent action against the government can be justified
Lol, this is something nearly everyone believes CAN be justified. It's such an open ended statement, yeah I'm sure most people can imagine a situation where they would feel violent action against the government could be justified. Really the question should have been do you feel it's justified under the current administration
most people would not answer that for fear of being put on a list
I'm surprised only 34% of Americans believe taking violent action against the government can be justified, isn't the whole country founded on violent action being taken against the government? Or did the founding fathers just write some lukewarm think pieces, stage a protest in the designated protest zone, and vote for George Washington?
I mean the first one is kinda weird, considering how the country started…
Yea, it's literally in the Declaration of Independence lol
we love our lead-poisoned boomers and Xers dont we folks, we love them
Now, some people, they want to say that lead is bad. And maybe it is, okay? Maybe it is. But our Boomers and Xers, they didn't let a little lead slow them down. No way. They got up every morning, went to work, and made this country the powerhouse it is today. And they did it with a smile on their faces. Tremendous.
that age group is the least likely to do anything like this
it's all
millennials and zoomers
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