The rights obsession with people's genitals reaches a new low
chuds are accidentally showing that gender is a social construct by saying a AFAB person qualifies as a man because of vibes and aesthetics
It's either genitals, chromosomes, or hormone levels depending on whom they're trying to harass and exclude.
A woman is anyone who believes she is a woman
A woman is anyone who JK Rowling believes is a woman
Treating a cis woman like absolute shit because she has certain non-feminine features? So, it was just sexism this whole time???
I'm reminded of a Danish news program during the last world cup where (because they were upset with how successful Algeria had been) they literally compared them with monkeys, and Germany likened them to ISIS.
According to chuds Algeria is both woke and backwards because of this.
The vibe I get from most of TERF islands anti-trans paranoia is that it is yes, anti-trans bigotry, but much of it is also inseparable from and a proxy for racist bigotry.
The White Gender Watchers wouldn't being having a fit if Imane was a white woman.
lmfao this whole thing has me reading Caster Semenya's wikipedia article and:
On 16 July, she set a new national record for 800 metres of 1:55:33.[84][85] On 20 August, she won the gold medal in the women's 800 metres at the 2016 Summer Olympics in Rio with a time of 1:55.28.[86] The win reignited controversy over the rules on permissible testosterone levels; immediately after the race Lynsey Sharp, finishing sixth, broke into tears, having previously said that "everyone can see it's two separate races",[87] while fifth-placed Joanna Jóźwik stated "I feel like the silver medalist ... I'm glad I'm the first European, the second white", to finish the race.[88][89] Bioethicist Katrina Karkazis criticised the indignant response to Semenya's win as discriminatory.[89]
lol those two athletes sound like dumb asses. Don't they know that swimming is the sport to go for when you want financial resources to gate out the POCs from a particular sport making the competition easier
fifth-placed Joanna Jóźwik stated "I feel like the silver medalist ... I'm glad I'm the first European, the second white"
it's really wild to me watching people acknowledge that her genitalia are what they expect of a woman but then insist that the presence of some xy chromosomes make you a "biological male"
edit: not that Khelif has xy chromosomes, i don't fucking know this athlete's private medical details and neither do any of these obsessive, transphobic freaks
But she doesn't even have that, there is no chromosome test that has been done.
there's been a lot of talk about xy chromosomes and i was trying to comment on that; but, you're right, and i don't know why that's something being claimed everywhere.
the source is “the IBA president’s ass”, the actual facts presented at the IBA:
https://www.iba.sport/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/BoD-meeting-minutes_New-Delhi_FV-approved.pdf
states that two athletes failed unidentified tests in 2022 after winning and the board let it go, then in 2023 after the two athletes were winning, new 7-day tests were performed during the tourney and also failed, but the timing allowed them to be DQed and their opponents reinstated.The IBA president claimed on July 31st 2024, that the tests “proved” the Chinese and Algerian athletes had XY chromosomes. The actual press release same day doesn’t specify genetic testing.
It does not track that DNA tests were performed in 2022 showing XY and the athletes were not kicked out of IBA, but allowed to compete the follow year and be retested for chromosomes in 2023 just in case because for some reason the DNA could have changed.
Whatever the mystery test were performed were clearly not DNA tests or something would have been said and done earlier.
A complete lie by the IBA president, invented mere days ago, not corroborated by even a single other person or document.
Show
thank you for tracking down actual info. that's really helpful.
To add to this discussion. I've seen sources say that she has XY and others says that it's not determined. My vibe is that it's not determined, but it still seems uncertain.
https://hexbear.net/comment/5207211 here's another reply that makes a good case that the boxing association president just made it the fuck up
I recommend checking out Alice Domurat Dreger's Hermaphrodites and the Medical Invention of Sex, which is one of the earliest works in the anglo world exploring intersex from a social perspective, and digs historically into the process through which western medical fields developed an entirely arbitrary distinction to biologically "sex" men and women, and how that was propelled into dominant social ideology.
Despite her more recent anti-trans talking points, back in the day Dreger's work was a really big part of the developing intersex community (by community here I mean community as in, people beginning to "come out" as intersex or meet other intersex people and share their experiences and form an identity as intersex as opposed to the previously near-universal intersex experience of living in secret shame, believing you had an embarrassing and unique medical condition, or being left entirely in the dark as doctors performed surgeries on you and either never told your parents or your parents chose to bury it and lie to you).
I think a lot of queer theory pushed by english-american academia spends too much time focused on dividing "sex" and "gender" in an entirely arbitrary and hegemonic way, perpetuating the idea that sex has some essential biological immutability, which not only holds back trans theory, it completely erases intersex theory.
So, for anyone interested in reading a bit more about intersex:
Challenging Lesbian Norms: Intersex, Transgender, Intersectional, and Queer Perspectives, Angela Pattatuchi Aragón
Queer (In)Justice: The Criminalization of LGBT People in the United States, Joey L. Mogul, Andrea J. Ritchie, and Kay Whitlock
Beyond Gender Binaries: The History of Trans, Intersex, and Third Gender Individuals, Rita Santos
Normal Life: Administrative Violence, Critical Trans Politics, and the Limits of Law, Dean Spade
Captive Genders: Trans Embodiment and the Prison Industrial Complex, Eric A. Stanley
Sex/Gender: Biology in a Social World, Anne Fausto-Sterling
Sexing the Body: Gender Politics and the Construction of Sexuality, Anne Fausto-Sterling
Expanding the Rainbow: Exploring the Relationships of Bi+, Polyamorous, Kinky, Ace, Intersex, and Trans People, Brandy L. Simula, J.E. Sumerau, and Andrea Miller
Intersex, Catherine Harper
Intersex Matters: Biomedical Embodiment, Gender Regulation, and Transnational Activism, David A. Rubin
Bodies in Doubt: An American History of Intersex, Elizabeth Reis
Contesting Intersex: The Dubious Diagnosis, Georgiann Davis
The Spectrum of Sex: The Science of Male, Female, and Intersex, Hida Vilori and Naria Nieto
Queer Embodiment: Monstrosity, Medical Violence, and Intersex Experience, Hilary Malatino
Body Guards: The Cultural Politics of Gender Ambiguity, Julia Epstein and Kristina Straub
Fixing Sex: Intersex, Medical Authority, and Lived Experience, Katrina Karkazis
Critical Intersex, Morgan Holmes
Intersex Rights: Living Between Sexes, Nikoletta Pikramenou
Transgender and Intersex: Theoretical, Practical, and Artistic Perspectives, Stefan Horlacher
The heartbreaking aspect of this is that athletes like Chand or Semenya come from remote parts of their countries and they have immense difficulty understanding what a gender test is, who a trans person is, or what is testosterone in the first place.
...do they though? Is there a quote from them saying this or is the author just making shit up in a really patronizing way?
It sounds like a significant part of the population everywhere has trouble with that
A lot of remote countries were invaded by Christian missionaries who promoted a very strict view of gender
Eh even if that's true then its not that deep for some person from a remote place try and participate in bifurcated sports. But don't expect compliance to bizarre eugenicist shit.
People can just read about things with an open mind. Definitely patronizing.
do they though?
Caster Semenya is from a large town in South Africa, Polokwane, the capital of its province. Population 130k
Definitely not "remote" by any stretch of the definition. Straight up racism by the author
They don't cause a broad chunk whoever buys what's written will take it for granted. Oh a person from third world, probably doesn't know how to read. It confirms what they believe so they publish it and some people will read it as "Yeah that makes sense"
I feel so bad for her. These fucking ghouls won't be happy until she kills herself. Anyone know when her next match is? I finally care enough to support someone in an Olympic competition
Today, ongoing as of an hour of this comment. She's up against a Hungarian boxerI misread, tomorrow Aug 3 at 17:22 Paris time
Here's hoping Imane fucking destroys her. I don't know if Olympic boxing has ever gone to knockout but inshallah
something like this should be immediately disqualifying, but nooo can't do that
Can't she get fucking disqualified for this? This is straight up transphobia, racism, and misogyny.
The Olympics are so fucking ass
Nah they say racist shit about non-white athletes all the time and never even get a slap on the wrist. But yes the IOC is a joke.
The IOC fucking sucks and is just another alleged neutral organization that conviently tows the western line and enforces western hegemony. Russian athletes aren't allowed to compete under the Russian flag but any western country is? Bullshit. If they were in any way legitimate they'd ban anyone spouting this shit about this poor boxer. Media, athletea, coaches whoever.
I mean, we could all could report her. Might result in something funny
Nope. I want her lifeless body to be bagged up right there in the ring.
Ah you're absolutely right, the Olympics website for me loaded in a weird way where I thought I was on Aug 2
As a trans woman I'd like to say: welcome to womanhood, cissexuals!
Never seen this kind of widespread “support”from men anytime a women actually got abused by a man
Westerners only take interest when crimes are imaginary. Like Q-Anon, Satanic Panic, The Gay Agrnda, etc.
It's interesting to imagine flipping this scenario around. Let's suppose I'm AMAB with XX chromosomes (not super uncommon) and male genitalia. I present as "traditionally male" in every way. Would they be OK with me competing in women's sports? I'm thinking not, because none of this is at all in good faith. It's just about excluding people who don't meet their totally arbitrary standards for what women are "supposed" to look and act like.
works with trans athletes too. the transphobes don't want trans women competing with women, but I bet you they also don't want trans men competing with cis women. Do they want both trans men and trans women to compete against cis men? Do they want trans athletes banned entirely and unable to compete?
Do they want trans athletes banned entirely and unable to compete?
That's the one.
It's honestly crazy af. Btw we are talking about female fighters. Idk I follow MMA and it feels like every other female fighter is at least a bit queer. Tons of gay relationships. Even some of the fighters who like, aren't explicitly out as queer present in a way that plays with gender. Like this is SO common. Like Jesus Christ if you don't want to see queer presenting women don't watch women's fighting.
Fwiw I get all my trans friends to watch MMA with me because we all love how queer WMMA is. Shame that mens MMA is so homophobic honestly
Fwiw I get all my trans friends to watch MMA with me because we all love how queer WMMA is. Shame that mens MMA is so homophobic honestly
that sounds like a blast
Oh it's so fun. Really it's just an excuse to get a bunch of my friends to hang out. A few of them have actually taken to like, following the sport. It is really fun though also cheap
The obvious end game to this right wing talking point is even more rigorous gender testing for women. Dudes who argue this point don't give a feck about women.
Wait what the fuck they are all about with that transphobia, she's not even trans.
Jes, Poland, but apparently having the 'right' genitals is not enough; let's put it in vice versa, if you are a man, for example, and show as much testosterone and chromosome as a woman like her, the transphobes will consider you 'woman'...
I know a ton of trans women with vaginas, i know a trans woman with XX chromosomes, every trans woman on HRT i know is at the bottom end of or in most cases below what is considered normal cis female testosterone levels, and none of that is enough for them to be considered a woman by a chud with terminal transphobic brain rot. OTOH putting vegetables on the BBQ suddenly makes you lose your man card, but only as long as you're a cis guy.
She's African though so crackers can't contain their racist hatred
With how quickly this all sprung about and how the boxer and Italian media (and politicians) jumped on it, this whole thing feels a bit planned and astroturfed.
Doesn't the uk have really strict libel laws and jk Rowling is doing a libel for calling this woman a man
God forbid a woman not look European enough to Robert Galbraith Rowling and her TERF brigade.
Yeah, according to transphobes, trans men are women, right? So they should be upset about someone they think is a "woman" getting beaten up by men, right?
Nope, they don't care.
What no bone 
