I usually hate anecdotal stories, especially as it's the tool of the right to defend pseudoscience. However, there's a heap of scientific evidence behind us.
In the last six months, I've a lot of older people and family passed due to heart troubles, including my dad. I would never say anything out loud, as it's just rude, as people are grieving and I don't know for 100% sure (the fecking burden of not being a reactionary). Like a friend's mum died of heart failure 3 months after a COVID infection, and I thought to myself "this is a very good chance that COVID increased her risk" but I'm not going to be a knob and say that out loud. You know who didn't fail to give their opinion? Fucking antivaxxers everywhere. "Did you mother get the jab?" "Fuck off her last vaccine was in 2021".
The other massive glaring thing I see every day is my students. Exam scores are way down, while behavioural and emotional problems (including medication) is up. COVID infections definitely can hurt kids' cognitive ability and cause an increased risk of neurological problems. I've just see way more fighting, anger, and serious emotional troubles in school than I ever have in my 20+ years of teaching. Students are missing way more school due to illnesses like COVID but also other viral stuff like the cold and flu than they ever used to, and they're falling behind because of it.
Total shot in the dark, but I see more of my close friends struggling with depression, anxiety, and low energy than I ever remember. I don't mean to downplay the genuine struggle that is mental health, people definitely had symptoms before COVID and many other issues are completely unrelated to COVID. I'm just seeing an increase across the board with people I know, especially people who I previously considered to be a rock.
I know that anecdotal evidence isn't worth considering, but we've being posting hard science for years, and I think it's fair that we start to notice patterns in our community.
I have noticed that people generally seem more rude and selfish, whether that's behind the wheel or on a sidewalk or in a grocery store. is it due to cognitive changes from covid or because the pandemic drilled into their heart that nobody gives a fuck about them? 😞
I finally have it, and this "just a flu" thing is such horseshit. I know you all know already, but jfc. my brain is a disaster, my lungs hurt like I just chain-smoked a pack of Red 100s, and I get winded walking to the kitchen 😑 the only times I've been more tired involved opiate withdrawal or parenting a newborn.
Social issues can exacerbate the biomedical stuff, making it all worse. Tons of kids lost their grandparents in the last four years, along with other family members, just as one example. Their parents have post-infection problems that frustrate the parents, that anger and frusrtation effects the kids even if the parents don't take it out on them, it makes the behavioral problems worse. kids are already stressed and then stuck in a boiler with other stressed kids, everyone's sick all the time, their parents are stressed from the profiteering on food and rent and everything.
It all feeds back on itself. Refusing to stop Covid was a world historical sin that can never be made right.
Kids today are going to be a complete shit show and will be a case study on how mass illness affects trauma, phobias, etc. Even if we were to magically eradicate every disease on earth, people who grew up during the pandemic are going to be masking, social distancing, wiping every surface with bleach, and constantly washing their hands until the day they die. If their children get sick with even the mildest cold, they will freak the fuck out like their kid is on the verge of death.
I've heard students who did remote learning in grade school who are now on middle school and high school are struggling to interact in-person. IIRC they got so used to doing things online, they don't know how to stay focused in class or second guess everything they do.
I don’t believe this. The remote learning thing was, to my knowledge, mandates for something like three months (a summer vacation) at most pretty much everywhere in the country and you’re telling me this completely stunted any part of the growth of children? Not everything else that we continue to subject children to since then? I’m losing my mind and don’t feel like I know how to socialize anymore as an adult who has not been to school in decades because I’m being gaslit by everyone around me 24/7 going on five years and counting. No. Kids are not stupid. We are doing this to them and if remote learning for brief periods of time sporadically through 20-21 has anything to do with it (and I do not believe it does) then it is extremely minimal in comparison to the sheer terror and ongoing psychic charade we have subjected them to daily since 2020.
There are countries that exist and also aren't the US of A. We had remote schooling here for two years. My kids are included in that cohort. And it absolutely fucked up their social development in ways we are still trying to comprehend and address. Doubly so given that we're a neurodivergent family.
Don't minimize our experience with an, "I don't believe this."
e: Also, I can't breathe properly anymore. Dad not being able to ascend steps to the home without being in pain also affected the kids.
There are countries that exist and also aren't the US of A.
Correct. I was worried that my wording was poor since most who say this are from the US, where any efforts at mitigation were minimal at best, so I apologize. I am not entirely educated on how the rest of the world outside of China and New Zealand handled things for the early pandemic, so I often just presume it was like us: terribly.
I don't know how to say with grace that I just do not think remote learning is the boogeyman we should point our fingers at, so I will leave it at that.
I don't know how to say with grace that I just do not think remote learning is the boogeyman we should point our fingers at, so I will leave it at that.
I'll say it with less grace: the "remote learning was the devil" crowd are full of shit. Many of the ills of remote learning that people cited have less to do with their kids being home and more to do with the evils of capitalism demanding too much of people so they struggle with childcare while they're working. Schools are used as daycare so the working class can work instead of raising their kids.
Furthermore, idk what the person we're responding to thinks but generally those who I've seen demonize remote learning for the "social impacts" also demonize the idea of making students and teachers wear respirators and use air filters when they're crammed into school, which means de facto supporting forcibly infecting kids with a debilitating disease. I have very little patience for the "remote learning was bad" crowd. Like damn if y'all hate your kids so much that you hate having them around and want to disable them with the plague, just go back in time and get surgically sterilized before you have them.
Damn, must be nice to have had something good at school to lose. As someone whose school experience was hell because it meant I was trapped with racist spoiled kids I don't get why being kept to remote schooling would be a social problem -- if anything it should be a boon.
've heard students who did remote learning in grade school who are now on middle school and high school are struggling to interact in-person. IIRC they got so used to doing things online, they don't know how to stay focused in class or second guess everything they do.
They've also probably got a decent amount of brain damage. Most kids have now been put through at least 3 surges with no precautions made to protect them. We know now that the asymptomatic infections that young people experienced in the early "it doesn't bother kids" phase was still probably messing them up long term.
Something like 70% of Covid cases enter a household from the children (as with other infectious diseases), so a lot of those kids and former kids are going to end up with the belief that they killed their parents.
(Joe Biden and Donald Trump and Larry Summers actually killed their parents.)
I teach teenagers. I can't speak for every teenager in existence, but this has been very different from my experience. The only thing close to this is that some kids will use alcohol hand jell if it's left out.
I've heard
Ya maybe research a bit before giving an opinion that sounds too much like "oh gosh the lockdowns were worse than COVID", something that's been repeated by Capital time and time again in the media.
Yeah, the number one injury among Covid conscious people for the foreseeable future is gonna be a bitten tongue. Last big visit I had with friends for a birthday was a lot of conversations about all the people we know getting sick and how everyone is dying so young all of a sudden. No mention of Covid, just me sitting there in my lone mask.
I got it for the second confirmed time recently and the symptoms lasted almost 2 full weeks, testing positive on antigen tests the entire time.
I was listening to knowledge fight yesterday and they were talking about Alex's grift he released in 2021 called reset wars. One of the hosts made an offhanded remark like "keep in mind this was released during the pandemic.... Which is ongoing but this was released when thousands of people were dying a day"
I almost yelled at the car stereo. We know there's a MASSIVE spike in infections right now but we don't have any data other than wastewater so there's no way to have an accurate death count.
Another grim thing i heard i think on the death panel podcast was that one of the reasons recent strains of COVID seem "less deadly" is because most of the people who were at risk of dying to a single COVID infection are already dead. That was a big wake up call for me to get my shit together honestly.
It relates to your comment about it being a burden, people who would ostensibly be on our side are more likely to hedge and "uh well i guess" their way through anything about COVID while any reactionary just shouts whatever they heard last at anyone who will listen
I enjoyed the Formulaic Objections series but it did occasionally become clear that the hosts are liberals who are not critical enough of US lies... have they made any progress in that regard or are they still talking about Putin's full-scale invasion of Ukraine
They don't talk about it much but yeah Jordan is still some kind of weird incoherent leftish guy who yells about how putin is the devil once in a while. Dan still is a fence sitting civility guy who doesn't really get into his own opinions much. I wouldn't listen to their episodes about Alex's reaction to tucker interviewing putin, if I were you lol
putin is the devil
if only these pesky compradors we install would stay loyal, this empire thing would run just fine
My sibling, who was already dying of cancer, died a lot sooner and suffered so much more from a covid infection that almost definitely came from his nurse.
I cant talk to anyone about it because my adoptive family is very antivaxx and anti mask
Sorry that happened to them. Absolutely evil that so many healthharm workers refuse to mask up around patients, all patients, but especially such very vulnerable populations as cancer patients!
You wouldn't believe how many people weren't wearing masks or wearing them incorrectly in the oncology unit
Heinous.
Pharmacist who did my covid and flu shots yesterday wasn't wearing a mask even though they saw me in a respirator and got right up close to me. My mask seals really well by a qualitative fit test so it's probably fine but roll those dice enough times and someone in a leaking mask is bound to get covid from a pharmacist while trying to get vaccinated against covid.
Are the constant attacks of breathlessness and gut-punch waves of terror because we have long covid or because we just 4 years ago had our faces clockwork-orange bad-dogged into the streaming pile of shit that is our material condition?
we just 4 years ago had our faces clockwork-orange bad-dogged into the streaming pile of shit that is our material condition
That's a good way to put it. It's hard to fathom, but everyone universally suffered loss during COVID. The luckiest only lost experiences and opportunities, but that still sucks a fucking lot. And we were all expected to move on and never deal with those feelings. I know I personally feel like we're still just in the 54th month of March 2020
Thread has convinced me to go get the latest shot right now, because it sounds like I've been absurdly lucky putting it off this long
I'm really glad something good came out of this, then. Sorry af that that the shots are expensive and difficult.
Girlfriend just got another round of it.
It's always funny when people are like "how is this still a thing?" And it's just like ........ it was everywhere and then we did nothing and declared it Not Our Problem anymore.
Can't imagine why it's not all wrapped up.
I wish more people around where I am would ask "how is this still a thing?" It at least means you can give them the answer, exactly like you just did, which might in turn give them something to think about. Instead what I see from most people is more like this kind of sentiment: "Of course it's still a thing, it's just how things are now. Really it's always been like this. Colds happen, flu happens, covid happens. It's a fact of life, get used to it and get over it being a thing. You're still wearing a mask? What are you, some kind of hypochondriac who scrubs their hands raw every time someone sneezes?"
COVID damaged my lungs, I have brain fog which combines with my ADHD to make thinking damn near impossible sometimes and I'm always so tired. I have sleep apnea but it seems worse now than it did before.
the only connection i made up till now was that before covid i used to get a cold or flu like once a year and it was always a very similar pattern where you would be back up in a couple days. post covid tho it just feels like i'm sick all the time, i think i've been out with a cold/flu like 4 times this year already and there's a quarter left.
but for the past couple years my ADHD has also been incredibly difficult. it hasn't been this bad my whole life and i assumed that it was just because of circumstances. but it would be useful to see if this is a common experience post covid
I've been reading Stolen Focus by Johann Hari. I don't know if it contains anything particularly revelatory, but it does do really well to line up all the evidence that tech (and our culture more generally) is designed to wreck our ability to concentrate. Anecdotally, my partner teaches and the number of kids who have issues with their phones and video games seems pretty high. COVID is probably accelerating the development of all these problems.
Also speaking anecdotally, I haven't had any major illnesses since the pandemic started and I've been massively struggling with mental health. I think we're just able to sense that our culture and society are both in a terrible place and that's causing a lot of mental strain.
I really benefitted from reading that book, but Johann Hari has been extremely controversial in his field (actually, he has no credentials, so (pop) psychology is not his field at all). He is a journalist, not a Doctor.
So if any one thing is helpful, fine, just know his conclusions are drawn far more from his own anecdotal experience and his empirical sources really don't support his conclusions.
He is also a serial plaigarist and his book on depression is absolute dog-water.
Another takedown that specifically talks about Stolen Focus here
Well shoot, thanks for the heads up.
The Stuart Ritchie piece adds some useful context for the turn into the anti-medication takes at the end of the book.
Thanks! Here is that article link in case anyone wants it: https://unherd.com/2022/01/johann-haris-stolen-ideas/
Pretty good except for the Anti-anti-Capitalist jabs.
There's a book by Neil Postman titled Amusing Ourselves to Death which was published in 1985(!!) that examines the shift in people's ability to focus which you might be interested in reading.
Of course in some respects it's hopelessly outdated given that it was written in the era where TV stations first started switching to 24/7 broadcasting rather than shutting down at night (lol) but it's also interesting to consider the arguments the book puts forward and it's a good waypoint to measure what a critical examination of the state of affairs was like some 40 years ago to use as a point of comparison to today.
I think we should be careful about saying that sort of thing. Strokes did happen to some otherwise healthy people at that age, it was just rare. The rate of strokes in younger people has been growing at least since the 90s. What would be really helpful knowledge would be to find out what the statistics are on the rate of strokes in otherwise healthy people under 60 over a really long time and see if there's an uptick around 2020. I'd bet anything that there is. The question I'd have is how big the difference is between pre and post 2020.
Edit: Sure enough.
One study published in JAMA in April 2021 found that the risk of stroke was more than twice as high for COVID-19 patients when compared to people of the same age, sex, and ethnicity in the general population—82.6 cases per 100,000 people compared to 38.2 cases for those without a COVID-19 diagnosis.
In another Swedish study published in the August 14, 2021 issue of The Lancet, researchers found that within a week of a COVID-19 diagnosis, a person’s risk of heart attack was three to eight times higher than normal, and their risk of stroke was three to six times higher. The study revealed these risks remained high for at least a month. The average age of people in the study was only 48 years.
https://healthcare.utah.edu/healthfeed/2022/01/covid-19-increasing-stroke-risks-people-of-all-ages
As information about COVID-19 has unfolded since the first cases were seen in the U.S., doctors in New York City have been noticing a troubling trend. Some young people who were mildly ill or had no noticeable coronavirus symptoms developed blood clots – and experienced strokes when those clots blocked blood vessels in the brain.
https://www.templehealth.org/about/blog/young-adults-covid-stroke-risk
Has anyone pointed out that people are treating COVID like they're playing with house money? They don't care 'cause they think it only harms people other than themselves.
this reminded me to get my vaccine today. Found the novavax being done at CVS, so going there
Make sure to double-check with what they're giving you. Lotta people out there complaining they're going in for novavax and just being given what's available.
thank you for this, cause i signed up for novavax on the website, but when i got to store they said it autoswitched to pfizer. I triple checked before he injected me, that it was the brand new novavax.
Welcome! Yeah, there's been a bunch of stories like that. Some where the system switches them, some where the pharmacist just doesn't care(!) and gives them what they have. Someone on reddit said there's some pharmacists out there that are flat out refusing shots to people that are looking for a specific shot. Telling them to go elsewhere. Which is freaking wild.
There is a big wave going and the symptoms seem a little diffrent from what we are used to. So get you new shot if you can covid is back on the menu
I'm not in those places. I sorta wonder how just masking in the store would go. But frankly I have no idea. I hope they're not targeting COVID conscious people.
Just 2nding what Ivysaur said, Covid never went away and the vaccines don't prevent infection or long covid. Of course people should get vaccinated, but the most important and effective protection is wearing a good respirator that fits well.
True, bur it does seem to have waves of it being even more on the menu. The hospital ai work at hadn't seem very many covid cases at all for a few weeks now we have local nursing homes shutting down again.
I think it's part COVID but also just part stress. Stress is absolutely a killer, extremely well documented. Who isn't more stressed these days at least in the western world? Everything is more uncertain. Things are expensive. Jobs are harder to get and keep. Wages are lower. Medicine and healthcare is harder to get. Society is literally collapsing around all of us in real time. That HAS to increase the general stress level of the population and that increased stress would absolutely lead to a lot of these things I think a lot of us are anecdotally seeing.
Definitely not saying COVID isn't part of that...it absolutely is, even if just "one more Big Illness going around constantly making life harder for everyone." That increases stress too and makes all of the other shit even worse. COVID is definitely one piece of the puzzle. It should be an easy piece to solve too... vaccination and masking and quarantines...but here we are.
