It's because they want to downplay their whiteness during a time when the issue of white supremacy is in the public eye. Any group that can be considered marginally white tries to do this.
The best guess based on shit my father says is like "people don't take Italians seriously, they just assume that if you have an Italian name you must be in the mob or something! We can't be successful without people throwing around mafia shit!"
How does their ancestors being discriminated against effect them today? They don't experience systematic racism, control most of the unions in the northeast and chicago and alot of them are cops.
I'm just saying those material effects are still felt today however weakly, even if the institutions have stopped being racist towards them
just as a thought experiment, if you could eliminate systemic racism towards black and brown people tomorrow— there would still be lingering effects on outcomes due to the generations of oppression. barriers to generational wealth, poorer nutrition, exclusion from better jobs all would have an impact on the person you are today if your great-grandfather experienced them, even if you're no longer experiencing discrimination.
I'm not saying Italians are PoC, I'm just saying that generational material effects don't disappear instantly when the systemic part fades
I think we're largely in that place right now with the black community. Institutional racism, as in legal doctrine that explicitly promotes racist goals, doesn't really exist. Eliminating the explicitly racist laws just isn't enough to solve the problem of racism, even within our institutions more broadly (although you could absolutely argue that the Senate as exists today enables this same sort of racism).
There's not a single country on earth that at one point had a legalized caste system where the legacy of such doesn't persist today.
barriers to generational wealth, poorer nutrition, exclusion from better jobs all would have an impact on the person you are today if your great-grandfather experienced them, even if you’re no longer experiencing discrimination.
Other than poor nutrition (which tbh they have the money to change and don't live in food deserts) they literally don't experience this anymore other than gabagool jokes. Are you italian?
and no I'm not Italian, I'm just saying don't forget that the present is forged out of the material conditions of the past
Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past. The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living.
No I didn't miss it but I'm talking about whether or not they're experiencing systematic racism that was passed down to them. The answer is no and in fact they happily participate in the system of white supremacy that still effects generations of black, brown and indigenous.
How? How is it shocking that I'm wondering why you keep saying that italians still feel the effect of wasp discrimination? Or do you think I was applying that first post to all people and situations?
just want an “out”
That's horsehit. You wrote three times before you deleted it that "I better not talk about systematic slavery and black people or I'll be cancelled" which is what that last comment is addressing.
Lol you said in the last edited post that I was using a dishonest paraphase when you said you would cancel me if I applied the same logic to black people and systematic slavery did you not???
I'm not talking about that post since I don't give a fuck about it. I'm talking about you saying that I wrote a dishonest paraphrase and wanted "an out" after you deleted said post about slavery. What a fucking coward that you want to throw around an accusation like that and not want to address it.
Lol the ironic thing is I bet you edited that post 3 times and deleted that comment out of fear of being cancelled yourself moreso than the implications of said comment. Like when racists don't care about actually being racist but being called it scares them. Eat shit.
This is absolutely true and needs to be discussed, as even within the context of the black community. The vast majority of the disparities we see today are entirely caused by post war era institutional racism and are near entirely removed from anything that happened during reconstruction or as a result of slavery.
Black people in major cities had equal levels of wealth when compared to the Catholic and Jewish immigrants before the great depression, but after the war and the new deal, blacks were left with nothing when these other white groups were totally folded into broader white society.
Nah, there was a point in time where they were considered the underclass. What's rarely mentioned is that what allowed them to "transcend" the label was their pigment.
It's because all of the contemporary disparities and institutional racism stem from the new deal era and post war era policies and have absolutely nothing to do with slavery and anything from the 19th century.
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It's because they want to downplay their whiteness during a time when the issue of white supremacy is in the public eye. Any group that can be considered marginally white tries to do this.
They think shit that happened 100 years ago still effects them.
I mean it does.... seems like maybe what you're getting at is that Italians were fully folded into "white" during the postwar period
The best guess based on shit my father says is like "people don't take Italians seriously, they just assume that if you have an Italian name you must be in the mob or something! We can't be successful without people throwing around mafia shit!"
How does their ancestors being discriminated against effect them today? They don't experience systematic racism, control most of the unions in the northeast and chicago and alot of them are cops.
I'm just saying those material effects are still felt today however weakly, even if the institutions have stopped being racist towards them
just as a thought experiment, if you could eliminate systemic racism towards black and brown people tomorrow— there would still be lingering effects on outcomes due to the generations of oppression. barriers to generational wealth, poorer nutrition, exclusion from better jobs all would have an impact on the person you are today if your great-grandfather experienced them, even if you're no longer experiencing discrimination.
I'm not saying Italians are PoC, I'm just saying that generational material effects don't disappear instantly when the systemic part fades
I think we're largely in that place right now with the black community. Institutional racism, as in legal doctrine that explicitly promotes racist goals, doesn't really exist. Eliminating the explicitly racist laws just isn't enough to solve the problem of racism, even within our institutions more broadly (although you could absolutely argue that the Senate as exists today enables this same sort of racism).
There's not a single country on earth that at one point had a legalized caste system where the legacy of such doesn't persist today.
Other than poor nutrition (which tbh they have the money to change and don't live in food deserts) they literally don't experience this anymore other than gabagool jokes. Are you italian?
I feel like you missed this part?
and no I'm not Italian, I'm just saying don't forget that the present is forged out of the material conditions of the past
No I didn't miss it but I'm talking about whether or not they're experiencing systematic racism that was passed down to them. The answer is no and in fact they happily participate in the system of white supremacy that still effects generations of black, brown and indigenous.
uhhhh.... I explicitly differentiated generational material effects from the systemic racism? I give up
I'm black....
I'll see you in the next thread about irish americans and rednecks lol.
Edit: can y'all stop editing post 300 times after it's already posted. It fucks up my posts.
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How? How is it shocking that I'm wondering why you keep saying that italians still feel the effect of wasp discrimination? Or do you think I was applying that first post to all people and situations?
That's horsehit. You wrote three times before you deleted it that "I better not talk about systematic slavery and black people or I'll be cancelled" which is what that last comment is addressing.
bye
Lol you're such a straight up fucking liar and sack of shit and you know it.
I never fucking said that, dumbass. do you even know what material conditions are? your reading comprehension is fucking garbage
Lol you said in the last edited post that I was using a dishonest paraphase when you said you would cancel me if I applied the same logic to black people and systematic slavery did you not???
do you not see the fucking quote in my comment
do you not see it
can you fucking read
fuck off
I'm not talking about that post since I don't give a fuck about it. I'm talking about you saying that I wrote a dishonest paraphrase and wanted "an out" after you deleted said post about slavery. What a fucking coward that you want to throw around an accusation like that and not want to address it.
lol "an accusation like that" that only you saw, fuck you you whiny dishonest piece of shit
you don't even know what material conditions are, fuck off
Lol the ironic thing is I bet you edited that post 3 times and deleted that comment out of fear of being cancelled yourself moreso than the implications of said comment. Like when racists don't care about actually being racist but being called it scares them. Eat shit.
wrong. haha bet you feel dumb!
Nope. You're a liar and a coward and seeing how much you're trying to cover your tracks while being shitty about... probably racist.
wrong. haha bet you feel dumb!
I bet you feel racist
wrong. haha bet you feel dumb!
I bet you feel racist
wrong. haha bet you feel dumb!
I bet you feel racist
wrong. haha bet you feel dumb!
I bet you feel racist
wrong. haha bet you feel dumb!
This is absolutely true and needs to be discussed, as even within the context of the black community. The vast majority of the disparities we see today are entirely caused by post war era institutional racism and are near entirely removed from anything that happened during reconstruction or as a result of slavery.
Black people in major cities had equal levels of wealth when compared to the Catholic and Jewish immigrants before the great depression, but after the war and the new deal, blacks were left with nothing when these other white groups were totally folded into broader white society.
Haha those silly Italians! Now pardon me while I write a small essay about how those damn SPDers got Rosa killed a hundred years ago...
ayo dont forget the irish, love having to explain that Irish slavery is a myth like at least once a year
Nah, there was a point in time where they were considered the underclass. What's rarely mentioned is that what allowed them to "transcend" the label was their pigment.
It's because all of the contemporary disparities and institutional racism stem from the new deal era and post war era policies and have absolutely nothing to do with slavery and anything from the 19th century.
yeah but they weren't slaves, which is what i get sick of explaining
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I thought it was a meme
You clearly aren't in touch with any sort of ethnic white roots lol (also I'm convinced these sorts of things only really exist in the north east).