Apologies for the delay but here they are. As per usual, if your pronouns aren't in the list, please comment them here and I'll see that they get added.
UPDATE: “Undecided” and “None/Use Name” have now been added.
I'll have you know I identify as an apache attack helicopter and will be using my M230 chain gun and Hellfire missiles to mow down TERFs if they get upsetti spaghetti about pronoun tags. B)
My pronouns are tankie/tankthem, and yes, i DO want to bring out the tanks when it comes to TERFS
we have a database constraint to stop anyone from setting things outside of the list
Ayyyyyye! Glad to finally be able to deliver on this. <3
ah yes I am sure the 159 comments in this thread will be nothing but understanding and positivity
tg6yhj7nu`tg6y7hbjnu5tg6yuh75tg6yhu7ff5thg6yu7ryf5tg6hu7vrf5tgvbhy67unr6f5tgvbhy7u
Literally me smashing my face into the keyboard.
Yeah, I would've loved to have kept it as a cute trans joke built into the website but a lot of people seem tilted about it and think it's making a joke of the pronoun flairs so I just had them removed. Maybe when everyone calms the fuck down we can open a dialogue about it, haha.
I think its removal helps the rest of the pronouns be treated as sincere. Putting a joke in there doesn't help the cause, IMO.
If/when we get custom user flair in addition to pronouns, that seems like the best place for a catgirl joke.
they added doe/deer but removed cat/boy which wildly inconsistent. if you open the door to otherkin not fair really to offer preferential treatment for the ones with their own pronouns but exclude those without their own pronouns, like catboys, from expressing their identity. no pronouns? sorry, your identity is not valid on chapo.chat. 😤
Whats the point of pronoun flairs if youre so rigid in what people identify as? This wouldnt be a problem if you just let people put their own flairs on it
the idea seems to be stopping people from setting their pronouns as like [attack/helicopter] or otherwise using it as an excuse to be transphobic
So is the long promised flair text impossible to implement if poeple will used it to be transphobic?
flair text will be separate from pronouns and have less rigidity.
no, flair text serves a different purpose than pronouns. Going through an approval step to make sure that requests are in good faith for pronouns makes sure it it isn't just trans folks putting their actual pronouns in the "pronouns" column (instead of like... "posadist/posadas" like i saw posted elsewhere here as a joke).
Are you afraid youll lose power if the people are allowed to participate in how the site is governed?
No I'm afraid it'll be a major inconvenience for everyone involved - users, mods, and developers. We've already seen wreckers come in with garbage pronoun flair they somehow weaseled in and it's a very invalidating experience for the community and forces mods to be on constant shit pronoun flair watch duty. I don't even think a person's pronoun flairs are removed upon being banned either so if it was horribly offensive it'd stay there until we have developer efforts to write something to remove them. It's overall just not a good system and requires a lot more effort than "hey, here are my pronouns, see they're added."
I'm not requesting a certificate of transness for them to be added. Just tell me what you want added and we can all save ourselves the headache of seeing "attack/helicopter" in the comments. I experience enough transphobia and I'm sure everyone else here does too. I really don't want to see casual transphobia or jokes at the expense of trans people here too.
We’ve already seen wreckers come in with garbage pronoun flair they somehow weaseled in
Like an exploit or something to allow whatever they want in the flair field? Has that been patched?
if sticking up for trans comrades makes me a moderator goon on the 10000-member forum chapo dot chat then sure I suppose I am
Ahh i forgot the terminally online 2000 people who are always logged in
Custom text encourages use for memes rather than pronouns, so only trans people will use it for pronouns, and now we have the same problem as every fucking website
doe/deer was a serious ask and should be respected. I think the problem is that people aren't sure if the cat one was or was not and the person who requested it has been banned. I think they're just taking it out of caution. better to accidentally validate a joke than to make someone have to fight for their right to be recognized, right?
yeah, the same way your name refers to you, pronouns do as well. both are also capable of gendering you. for example, I'm trans and I prefer to be gendered as a woman. same way, some NB people do in fact want to be gendered but as some gender that doesn't fit within our binary -- so there are no pronouns for them to use and they're forced to create new ones.
but really, this comes down to really basic respect for the identity and self-determination of another person. it ultimately does not matter why someone wishes to be referred to a certain way. would you balk at addressing someone by a particular name? what if they're parents gave it to them? what if it's a joke in your culture but serious in theirs? why do you get to be the arbiter of how someone else is referred to?
The only actual critique I can think of his is trying to use the pronounce "cat/girl" in a sentence will make it read very very weird??? Thats basically the only ilk I have with neopronouns
yeah, I'm worried about that one too. I don't want to normalize people not using people's flaired pronouns but at the same time I totally get the desire to err on the side of caution when it comes to not invalidating someone. easiest thing to do is practice.
cat went to the store and came home with milk for girl
doe/deer otoh is very easy because it sounds like other pronouns so it's more like learning a new meaning for a word (and dropping the old connotations) rather than something entirely fresh. in reality, both examples are the same but the similarity in sound helps for whatever reason.
its whatevs. It seems like the people actually using those flairs also have she/her or anypronoun marked as well so i will just use she/her or they
how something is intended and how something is received are not the same thing. you might intend they/them to be heard as simply confirming the referent's gender but I, for example, will always feel like an alien when I'm called they. he makes me feel like I've been punched. she makes me feel happy. one of these is correct, the others are wrong.
the same thing is true of people with genders outside the binary. if they/them makes them feel weird, why would you insist on calling them that?
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yeah, that's the generally accepted social norm.
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so you're assuming there is a single spectrum on which genders lie. the truth is that there are as many genders as there are people who have ever been or who ever will be. many cluster close enough to man and woman that they do for the majority. but for many others, their genders don't fall on a spectrum between man and woman.
first, gender identity isn't something you prefer -- it's something that's innately part of you. if I could prefer not to be a woman, there's no way in hell I would have transitioned. second, pronouns are preferential when we're discussing how people label themselves but they aren't really preferential either. like I pointed out up thread, I don't exactly have a choice with my pronouns.
but yeah, generally when you're talking to someone and they tell you which pronouns they'd prefer (or their gender identity, though that's considerably more personal), you know none of: 1. their actual pronouns; 2. their gender identity; 3. very much about them at all except that at this moment in time they prefer these pronouns or that gender identity.
also, gender identity is not a person's whole identity by any stretch but it's certainly a very complicated and personal part of who they are. the only traits that make up gender identity are things internal to a person that you can't know from the outside. gender identity is at least as complicated as identity. "at least" because in many ways it's a social experience as well in a way that our identities are not (or, well, are not any more... that's kind of capitalism and alienation) -- I share my gender with other women and there's a collective experience in that, the same and different from your own experience of sharing masculinity with other men.
all I can say is that confusion about all this is very normal. understanding comes from experience and even with experience it's tough to make sense of. now imagine trying to figure all this out while trying to make yourself cis again and having continuous panic attacks about it and you've got a decent description of the trans experience, lol.
The pronouns people want you to use are a preference, and that is why this situation is so confusing. The discussion is about people listing their prefered pronouns, which is only a related concept to gender identity. People are thinking of pronouns as a proxy for gender identity, which is only partially correct.
Now if you talk about "misgendering" someone, does that mean you assumed the wrong gender identity, or merely used the wrong pronouns? If someone is male-presenting and tells you their pronouns are he/him, but they identify as a nonbinary gender... if you call them he/him assuming they're a cis guy... have you "misgendered" them? Good question, I don't know the answer!
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It depends on what you consider a bit. I'm a cis guy (apparently the cat options were a trans in-joke?), but I kind of identify more with "boy", but also it's not really a pronoun (for me anyway).
But I did really like having "he/him / cat/boy", it felt right.
Also cat boys are cute UwU.
trans in-joke in that trans women in particular call themselves cat girls on a fairly frequent basis on the internet. but that's more "I am a X" and less "my pronouns are X".
if you legitimately want people to address you with cat and boy the way other people do with he and him:
cat went to the store to buy boyself dinner
then I support you. that it makes you happy is enough for me.
if you legitimately want people to address you with cat and boy the way other people do with he and him
Like I said, not really a pronoun for me, but I liked it being there after he/him, with the expectation that people would just use he/him, but if people used it that'd be fine.
I guess I'd basically be using it the same way trans folks do, the way you described: "but that’s more “I am a X” and less “my pronouns are X”".
If it's considered unnecessary or will be misconstrued as mocking the pronoun system or something like that I understand. I just thought it was nice.
they're adding user flairs at some point, which will be the best place for that. it is cute :)
"if your identity doesn't have a unique pronoun, it's second class"
you are saying "fawn" and "fae" are first-class identities because they have their own pronouns, so they privileged to be listed formally in the "gender" field, but catfolk is a second-class identity because it doesn't have a unique pronoun and can only go in as a custom flair once they are added. actually none of them are genders, so either cat/boy should all be included or doe/deer and fae/faer should be removed.
no I'm not, I'm saying the way trans people use the term cat girl is as an identity signifier, not as pronouns so it doesn't make sense to include it in the pronoun tags. those are about how other people refer to you. there's a separate flair system coming that's better suited for identities -- the current system is intended to ensure people don't get misgendered, not to signal identity.
actually none of them are genders,
correct, the only things that are getting added are pronouns. you're confused about the purpose of this system.
edit: you do realize pronouns and gender identity are completely distinct things, right? the point of the pronoun tags isn't so people can tell each other their gender identities, it's so that people stop calling each other "he" by default and refer to people the way they actually wish to be referred to. it's about reference, not how we each identify.
catfolk are a valid identity and I'm not disputing that in the slightest. if there are pronouns that catfolk or anyone would else would like when referring to them, those should go into thread in !transenby_liberation@hexbear.net. identity labels (which I'm fully in favor of) should wait until there's a flair system for it. I believe that one will be open so people can type in what they like (or maybe not given the last two days...)
what is the purpose of listing pronouns if not to respect gender identities? big difference between, for example, nonbinary he/him and cis guy he/him. or another example, that is common in gay culture, to use feminine pronouns for each other situationally. that has nothing to do with gender identity. but it makes no sense to put she/her on my list of pronouns, because i am a cis guy. you are saying it's about only grammar when i think everyone understands pronouns are a proxy for gender identity. if they weren't, if it was purely about grammar as you are suggesting, there would be no big deal about people not declaring them.
it's just bizarre to defend doe/deer or fae/faer neopronouns which is explicitly tied not to genders but to otherkin identities, but saying cat/boy has to be removed because it's unserious or not grammatical. i don't know why they can't just add cat/boy back, clearly people want it as an option. why are catboys are being oppressed by this grammarian pedantry? it's not as if you are saying you won't add cat/boy, it's that it was there, people liked it, and it was taken away. which would have been reasonable if they hadn't added doe/feer and fae/faer. which i have no problem with! but cat/boy should not have been removed.
what is the purpose of listing pronouns if not to respect gender identities?
no one expects pronoun tags by themselves to bring respect for gender identities. it's just one step on a much longer road.
big difference between, for example, nonbinary he/him and cis guy he/him.
yeah, I fully agree and we should be able to denote that. it's just not feasible in a pronoun system without confusing people with an unsophisticated understanding of gender (read: most everyone on this site) -- they can barely keep straight what the individual pronoun tags mean.
<edit> let me give you some examples of conversations I've had about this in the last couple of days:
- I get a notification about once an hour from someone new who wants to argue with me about they/them not being an appropriate way to refer to me. several have literally tried to argue the point that they/them is neutral gendered grammatically so I'm wrong (!!) to feel misgendered.
- there's literal, direct mockery, to their face, of someone who asked for doe/deer pronouns to be added in the pinned megathread.
- I've spent an obnoxious number of hours responding to person after person who's confused by the whole concept of neopronouns, hasn't bothered to read all the other explanations I and others have offered, and wants a sincere and hand-held guided tour through the world of gender post-binary. most of these people feel literally entitled that their feelings about other people's pronouns matter and that they're owed justification before they'll offer tolerance and acceptance. </edit>
but it makes no sense to put she/her on my list of pronouns, because i am a cis guy.
I don't think that's true. I've seen a few people using he/him/she/her and I think more cis people should use the system in that way. set your pronouns to reflect the way you'd actually like people to refer to you.
if it was purely about grammar as you are suggesting, there would be no big deal about people not declaring them.
I'm not saying it's about grammar, I'm saying it's about respecting people's wishes about how others should refer to them. identities are a harder thing to ask for respect on and for others to show it (seriously: what would you like people to do differently when replying to your posts when they see that you're a cis man rather than he/him NB?). that doesn't mean they're less important, it just means effort gets prioritized first towards the low-hanging fruit. and from a change management perspective, people revolt when they're asked to change too much too fast so it makes sense to introduce things in stages.
it’s just bizarre to defend doe/deer or fae/faer neopronouns which is explicitly tied not to genders but to otherkin identities, but saying cat/boy has to be removed because it’s unserious or not grammatical.
- I'm saying cat/boy doesn't belong with the pronouns unless someone actually wants people to use them as pronouns to refer to them. otherwise we train people to ignore the pronoun tags and go back to referring to people however they like.
- doe/deer and fae/faer are pronouns people would actually prefer were used to refer to them and they deserve our respect. that's not to say other identities that don't have pronouns don't also deserve respect -- they do -- we just need a system in place that can actually support that and pronoun tags aren't it.
it’s not as if you are saying you won’t add cat/boy, it’s that it was there, people liked it, and it was taken away.
some people liked it, yeah, and I wasn't part of the decision to remove it. I'm just explaining why I'm not going to push for them to get added back (if someone tells me they would in fact like people to refer to them as cat and boy, I will reverse that immediately and start lobbying for it to get added back).
tl;dr - let's get people to refer to each other correctly first -- a steep challenge already -- and add identities in with a system designed for it. trying to use the pronoun system to also deal with identities only makes the pronoun system worse at what it's designed to do by teaching people that it's ok to ignore someone's flaired pronouns.
I’m saying cat/boy doesn’t belong with the pronouns unless someone actually wants people to use them as pronouns to refer to them. otherwise we train people to ignore the pronoun tags and go back to referring to people however they like.
It makes as much sense as deer or fae.
no, people actually want:
doe went to the store to buy deerself dinner
that's a different thing from wanting others to see a part of your identity.
It's not different, it's an extreme case of the same thing -- it's going to a step further, to shoehorn your identity into language by repurposing nouns as pronouns. Perhaps the most extreme declaration of one's identity. Putting the onus on others to refer to you as "deer" is sure to make sure everyone knows you identify as some sort of fawn-person (which still has gendered expression, per a doe vs deer/fawn vs stag/hart pronoun). That's well beyond just wanting to ensure people don't trigger dysphoria by misgendering you with language. It's almost exclusively about wanting people to see a part of your identity and contriving the language around that. Totally different case from the novel neopronouns that nonbinary people want to use because they don't identify with either he/she gender, nor with they/them.
There is no grammatical use of personal pronouns in any language (that I am aware of) that indicates species or demihuman race. Surely, if people could have gotten racialized pronouns to catch on, it would've happened around 17th century America to do racism. Surely racialized pronouns are a thing to be avoided, not a thing to be backdoored in with the cause of transgender acceptance.
If you want to go to such extreme lengths and make up new language constructions, then I posit that cat/boy is equally valid as an inferred pronoun.
(cat-)he went to the store to be (cat-)himself dinner
The cat is not spoken in the sentence, but is inferred onto every personal pronoun. A more linguistically valid construction than racialized pronouns, since pronoun-dropping is a feature of existing languages.
As to the practical impliciations, I can't really imagine anyone employing "doe/deer" as pronouns the way you used them in that sentence, even if it's in the flair. Most will see it as functionally the same as cat/boy, just some cute or eccentric identity indicator. So the outcome of "training people to ignore pronoun flair" is functionally the same either way, even if there is technically a difference.
No normal person not already eyeballs-deep in the sub-subculture is going to say "doe went to the store to buy deerself dinner" in a real sentence. I am not sure it's reasonable to even expect people to. I think gender identity is inherently valid and something that deeply impacts everyone's life in some way or another. The otherkin identities may be seriously held by a certain subculture, but I don't think there is an expectation everyone has to "accept" them as valid, the same way as universal experiences like gender or sexuality. But if the policy is going to be that we accept them, they should all be accepted equally, and not some privilieged over others -- that's just gatekeeping.
Putting the onus on others to refer to you as “deer” is sure to make sure everyone knows you identify as some sort of fawn-person (which still has gendered expression, per a doe vs deer/fawn vs stag/hart pronoun). That’s well beyond just wanting to ensure people don’t trigger dysphoria by misgendering you with language.
this is deeply uncharitable. I'm not going to speculate on intentions when people ask me to use pronouns.
No normal person not already eyeballs-deep in the sub-subculture is going to say “doe went to the store to buy deerself dinner” in a real sentence. I am not sure it’s reasonable to even expect people to.
I and other trans people in this community are and do. we have solidarity for each other.
your whole position here is invalidating and presumptive. I ask you to rethink this from a more empathetic frame of mind.
The cat is not spoken in the sentence, but is inferred onto every personal pronoun. A more linguistically valid construction than racialized pronouns, since pronoun-dropping is a feature of existing languages.
do you see how this isn't a concrete ask we can make of other people? you're asking for them to change how they perceive you -- but it's not something they can show through action.
i understand that as he/him is the pronoun and cat/boy is the gender expression, made perfect sense to me. just like i have he/him because i am a guy, but any pronoun because idc what pronouns people use. for example, a lot of gay gays end up using feminine pronouns around their gay friends, even though they don't identify as a feminine gender. this pronoun vs gender conversation seems to lose the point some people want to declare a gender and some people want to specify a pronoun. different but related concepts. it's valid to be, for example, he/him nonbinary, but you are suggesting the pronoun use is a more important declaration than the gender itself. but in some cases one is incomplete without the other. i imagine it could be dysphoric for someone nonbinary but who prefers he/him pronouns to be imagined as a cis dude, for example?
no? pronoun use is just one kind of gender expression. there are many others and they all, even taken altogether, say very little about gender identity.
people want to use the pronoun tag as general user flair, yes, but that's not about anything deeper or more significant, it's just a tag that sits next to their username that they want to customize.
just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it's wrong. it just means it doesn't make sense to you.
What doesn't make sense is why everyone on this board is so cute
Damn, I feel bad for you if this is what's turning you stupidpol, to be honest. If you can show me a place on the doll where it hurts you to address someone in the way they identify, F tier takes like this will be taken more seriously. We're all just cosmic amoebas here for a short time, nothing truly matters enough to be negative and invalidating of someone else's existence. They're all just sounds that we ascribed meaning to, what's to stop us from ascribing different meanings to existing words, haha. If you can reduce human suffering even a little and make someone feel more comfortable being themselves in a world where suffering is becoming exponentially more intense with something as simple as this, I literally can't imagine why anyone wouldn't, it's not that hard to at least make an effort.
Furthermore, I'd rather validate someone else's existence if it's a serious request but could be perceived as a meme request than deny them. At best, cat/girl is how someone wants to identify; at worst, it's a cute bit of trans culture built into the website and I think that speaks volumes of our trans acceptance. Either way, I really don't care and it's not my position to judge. Just let go of your animosity and preconceived notions of how humans are meant to interact with one another, haha. :P
It's cool that folks who want their pronouns now have the ability to have their pronouns used, and their wishes respected. I'm all for it.
There's some old farts on here from way back, when people purposely logged onto the internet and took great pains to avoid exposing anything about who they were, off the internet. I kinda groused about it here. It's where that phrase "On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog" comes from. People didn't want people to know who they really were on the internet. The internet was a whole new plane of existence, something that you could use to escape the confines of "meatspace" where for the most part your station had already been determined for you by circumstances of birth and socio-economic status.
I think it's a shame that Web 2.0 shattered that mindset. People were encouraged to log on as who they were in meatspace, which brought all the bad baggage from the real world straight into the internet. It really ruined it.
Sure, back in the day you could choose to post with your real name. But it was optional. I feel like something was lost though, and we're more confined these days by the change in culture of the internet where more and more of our identity comes from who we are behind the screen.
I'm sure there's a ton of caveats. I mean, let's be real, who was on the internet in the 90's. I have no illusions about how homogeneous the people using the internet back then were. But the idea was still something beautiful and had so much potential.
Anyway, it's cool that there's a "None/Use Name" option, that sort of captures the spirit of what I sort of remember about the Good Old Days, but I figured it was worth maybe sharing a perspective. There are people who aren't choosing pronouns for their handle and it's not malicious. It's just some of us came up in a different time....
If you were serious about opsec you'd just use fake pronouns instead of writing an essay.
the whole argument is so ridiculous anyway, as if pronouns are going to be the thing that's gonna get someone doxxed
lmao this entire thread is basically just cis people going i dont waaaanna set my pronouns!! but trying to frame it in some logical way
i did miss em
fuck them, let's build a queer commune and not let them in
yes please. days like today remind me why I loathe most cis people.
I'm one of those old farts and really didn't want to jump in on this conversation, but anonymity =/= lack of identity and related baggage. Also something something the internet enabled constructed identities rather than providing blank slates.
the notion that we can all abandon our identities online only works if you're coming from the default, majority identity. that's why everyone was "he" online back then. you're romanticizing something oppressive, very alike reactionaries and whatever golden age they think they'd prefer.
They should make "anon" a gender. 😤 Then we can use 4chan speak. What do you think, anon?
What's the deal with cat/boy, cat/girl, cat/enby?
Someone requested it and I couldn't tell if it was an ironic request or not since "cat girl" is something terminally online trans gals call themselves, lol. Worst case scenario, it's a cool trans in-joke built into the website that'll show we're accepting of the transes, lol. :)
I don't want to be a jerk if those are actually someone's pronouns. It just seemed pretty close to the sort of joke pronouns we've said we're trying to avoid.
Do you NOT want to deliberately butcher the English language? What are you, a colonizer?
/joke
Also I am close friends with the person who suggested doe/deer and doe has used them for a long time, and it absolutely shouldn’t be a big deal. Sure it’s strange if neopronouns are new to you, but absolutely not something you should make light of.
This is not something new to deer, just to you. and if doe see this post all deer will see is their comrades calling deer ridiculous and I can’t imagine that’s feel very safe or welcoming.
You don’t need to understand why, you’d never ask anyone else to justify their pronouns or identity. It’s just because neopronouns are new to you that they seem strange, like maybe how non-binary or agender might seem or feel when you’ve never been exposed to it before.
It’s not my place to explain for deer, but yes those are deer pronouns, and yes people refer to deer as such, as best they’re able to.
I don’t feel comfortable saying more because I am not deer keeper or speaker, but the point is yes neopronouns are legit and should be respected just as much as anything else.
Why do some people need non-binary options? They don’t fit who they are, their identity, so they don’t feel comfortable within that binary. I don’t see a difference with neopronouns.
Also if you’re asking in good faith about and don’t understand this, why the hell would you set it as your pronouns twice.
That looks incredibly uncool from where I’m standing. Do you intend to mock?
my response from up thread:
yeah, the same way your name refers to you, pronouns do as well. both are also capable of gendering you. for example, I’m trans and I prefer to be gendered as a woman. same way, some NB people do in fact want to be gendered but as some gender that doesn’t fit within our binary – so there are no pronouns for them to use and they’re forced to create new ones.
but really, this comes down to really basic respect for the identity and self-determination of another person. it ultimately does not matter why someone wishes to be referred to a certain way. would you balk at addressing someone by a particular name? what if they’re parents gave it to them? what if it’s a joke in your culture but serious in theirs? why do you get to be the arbiter of how someone else is referred to?
I'm having this same discussion twice:
how something is intended and how something is received are not the same thing. you might intend they/them to be heard as simply confirming the referent’s gender but I, for example, will always feel like an alien when I’m called they. he makes me feel like I’ve been punched. she makes me feel happy. one of these is correct, the others are wrong.
the same thing is true of people with genders outside the binary. if they/them makes them feel weird, why would you insist on calling them that?
the key point is that people outside the binary have genders, would like to be gendered, and the existing pronouns do not meet the bill because they either refer to binary gender or are neutral.
they make some people feel more comfortable. why do you need more than that?
Seems like a big leap from specifying gender to specifying species. Otherkin identity is not gender identity. Really going down a rabbit/hare hole.
Idk abkut you but doe/deer worked just fine grammatically. Sounds a bit like 'their'
Unfortunately that could lead to a lot of (Attaack/helicopter) and joke pronouns. If you actually have a neopronoun contact TC69 and she can help you get it set up.
the cat ones aren't pronoun preferences as much as specifying a gender identity, which is 100% valid. the grammatical argument against them is pedantic and annoying.
It just seemed pretty close to the sort of joke pronouns we’ve said we’re trying to avoid.
That was my impression, too. I get the reluctance to gatekeep, but some form of gatekeeping is needed to avoid the message getting co-opted or derailed. For instance, we have emojis from all different leftist schools of thought, but we're not putting up just whatever emojis are requested.
Did you just equate people requesting neopronouns to new emojis? lmfao
No. An example for comparison is not saying that the two things are equal. It's saying they are similar in some limited respects.
it was from enver_hoxah who was a troll. I think you can remove it and add “Undecided” and “None / Use Name” instead ☺️
Thank you again 🙏
Eh. I'm not going to gatekeep. That's not my job, my job is to make people feel welcome and safe here. Unless it's painfully obvious they're trolling, I'm down for whatever. Who am I to judge people for experimenting with their identities, y'know? We're all just living in hellworld trying to scrape by.
I get it, but like the context of the catgirl gender request first had enver asking for “gadafi/ anarchist” as a gender. Did anyone else ask for it? 😕
idk maybe I’m over thinking this, but we have enough issues with educating cis libs to take pronouns seriously 🤷
Nope! I personally think it's cool having some ✨t r a n s c u l t u r e✨ built into the site. 😎
troll request or not idc, "cat/girl" is dope as heck and felt good to see on a dropdown. thanks everyone involved for implementing & using the new pronouns~
Same, I was cautious at first, but it's actually pretty fucking cool seeing a bit of trans spice built in, hahaha.
I like you because we can argue about shit and you don't get mad at me. Respect.
I try my best to keep a level head with everyone. Like I said, we're all in hellworld together. No need to make people feel worse than they already do.
I see you added a bit of ✨t r a n s s p i c e✨to your pronoun tag too. ;P
doe/deer is one thing because the user was serious and could tell us how to use them but there's no way to put cat/girl/boy/enby in a sentence. It was clear those weren't intended to be real and I wouldn't even know how to refer to the person. What is it then ? catself ? girl/boy/enbyself? They're not pronouns in use by anyone and are actual joke flairs like you just said.
I'm nb and I do respect your opinion on it as you're also trans but to me it's kinda weird that you don't let people fill in their own pronouns to avoid them using it as a joke flair and then you add joke flairs intentionally. It's not consistent and trans people who aren't familiar with r/traaaa memes would think it was making fun of them.
the cat ones aren’t pronoun preferences as much as specifying an identity, which is 100% valid. the grammatical argument against them is pedantic and annoying.
Hey so I understand that neopronouns are new to a lot of people. So let me break it down super easily for those who are arguing against them: Asking "what's the point of neopronouns?" is kind of like asking me "what's the point of she/her?" Gender is a construct and I identify as she/her. You wouldn't give me shit about that, right? Fawn is doe/deer. So if you're going to try to negate that, then you have to say that I'm not she/her. It's all or nothing. We don't get to say some pronouns are acceptable and some aren't (unless it's obvious trolling, but that's a different story). We don't get to dictate when we support our trans comrades and when we don't. We are either a safe space, or we're not.
We are either a safe space, or we’re not.
The only core of leftism, on which I expect no debate, is kindness. Thank you for taking the time to write up such a good comment.
Except that people who speak languages without gendered pronouns still have gender. Gendered pronouns aren’t necessary.
hi I don't have an opinion ill just put my pronouns because even if it makes 1 person slightly happier its worth it
I said it elsewhere and I'll say it here too.
I’m not going to gatekeep. That’s not my job, my job is to make people feel welcome and safe here. Unless it’s painfully obvious someone is trolling, I’m down for whatever. Who am I to judge people for experimenting with their identities, y’know? We’re all just living in hellworld trying to scrape by. Personally I think it's lowkey adorable. :)
Don't let anyone shit on your pronouns. Proud of you. :)
anyone who knows fawn knows deer pronouns are doe/deer. this isn't news and it's not a meme. it's literally deer identity
You are correct friendo. I love to see masculine-aligned people in sexy maid costumes. Actually, I love to see anyone in sexy maid costumes. Volcel police, I need help over here, I'm too horny. Help!
good to see that even leftist forums aren’t safe from cis people sharing their horror of being asked to put in their pronouns
nobody cares, either set them up or don’t, stop with the ridiculous essays
Comrade IS my preferred pronoun, I fucking love it when people refer to me as comrade - hella empowering.
If we're talking gender pronouns - comrade certainly isn't my gender (unfortunately) 🤗
More genders are easier to abolish than fewer. Just like two hundred independent states are easier to overthrow than 5 colonial empires.
Abolish pronouns tho, as we move towards a world where more and more peoples gender identity/pronouns aren’t obvious from their appearance it’s gonna be a hassle. Quite a few languages do just fine without gendered pronouns.
