That's not what we meant when we said we needed to "flatten the curve"
oh it's not flat, it's gonna dome up top and come down eventually
europe got back
Lib Brain:
China bad
China make covid line go down
Covid line go up makes world more good
ppl bigly mad at china right now even tho china handled this well from the start along with like every country in that region which handled this easily while the west let hundreds of thousands of people just die needlessly and millions fall into poverty
Line, as they say, go up.
Going up like it's a Kurzweil prediction rn.
At this rate, we will be at 100 quadrillion cases by February. I will now write 6 or 8 books with this same thesis.
I'm imagining something like "We are only at the knee of the corona, what will life look like inside the corona singularity? No one knows"
The only thing our leaders want to save is their shitty worthless coin.
That's absolutely insane, especially given the delay in deaths.
Look out America, Theres a new sherif in town!, you thought you had the monopoly on incompetent leaders riding the wave of neoliberalism straight to hellworld?
Well NO MORE! our leaders are just as incompetent and corrupt as yours, you might be ahead in death count, but where there's a will there's a way, and by god we will let this pandemic cull the herd of seniors as long as the line goes up.
They reopened more shit than they should have at one time is my arm chair take. I saw a lot of different countries in the EU were basically fully reopening clubs, bars, and other venues that tightly pack people inside.
edit: oh yeah I forgot to mention there is a few articles out there saying how people are basically lockdown sick and are very likely over-doing what they think they have been missing out on during lockdown, kinda goes hand and in hand about what I said above.
Lockdown fatigue is inevitable, especially when there's no defined end. It has nothing to do with "the economy" or "STONKS" or any bulkshit about "killing people for burgers boomer death drive blah blah blah". It's just boring drudgery that often ends up pointless. It's just extremely taboo on the Left to suggest that people have valid reasons for making value judgments.
Nah, it's dogshit neoliberalism. Gotta keep that economy growing, so open shit up.
Two parts: misplaced rebelliousness among the population, and poor government policy.
The real problem is that the government did not stomp out the infection completely, as was done in China, so it just continues to exist and spread among a non-compliant sub-population.
Third part: it is not economically or socially viable to remain in lock-down until this sub-population has achieved heard immunity and stops re-spreading the infection.
But that is just my analysis.
Edit: also that is not hospitalizations, just confirmed cases which are an order of magnitude more this time because there is actual testing capacity.
So the thing is, these countries did stomp out the illness, they just allowed tourism to resume in a way that China hadn't.
Add in just how much more technologically advanced Asian countries are compared to Europe resulting in China being very good around contact tracing and forcing those people to quarantine.
Basically they just all stopped giving a fuck and when you do that it gets bad very fast. Really every east asian country from Korea to Vietnam just takes this shit far more seriously because of the original SARS.
So the thing is, these countries did stomp out the illness,
I don't think you live in any of the countries most affected on this map: https://i.imgur.com/87VwQ7A.png
Look up information about them and you will find it was never gone.Their plan was to flatten the curve so that each wave could be within hospital capacity, not to eradicate.
how much more technologically advanced Asian countries are compared to Europe
That is highly overstated. Asian countries mostly do not have as much opposition to privacy invasive apps.
Europe is rich, and "technologically advanced" under global capitalism is mostly a function of wealth.And if you look at that map above it will be obvious that within Europe technological advancement has nothing to do with viral spread.
It makes no sense to talk about "Asian countries"; since China/Japan/Korea are totally different from Iran/India/Pakistan/Russia/Indonesia.
To control a pandemic of this type requires medical masks and compliance, that is literally all.
Keeping infected people from dying in hospital is irrelevant, all that matters is transmission.Contact tracing can be done with interviews over telephone, this is not high technology.
It only requires better technology when the problem is allowed to get out of hand.they just all stopped giving a fuck and when you do that it gets bad very fast.
Those living in China have "stopped giving a fuck", but it does not matter because it was effectively wiped out already.
That is not the determining factor at all. And saying they "stopped giving a fuck" assumes they ever "gave a fuck" which they did not.
Again you are not informed about the internal politics and policies of these European countries, they have been abysmal.In some European countries they are still arguing if masks should be worn at the supermarket.
takes this shit far more seriously because of the original SARS.
No. Pandemics are simple. Every virologist or scientifically literate person all over the world knows that infectious diseases are serious.
Those countries have a more collectivist rather than individualist culture, and much of the population is more inclined to accept medical science and government authority.
This drives compliance, people are willing to put up with discomfort to protect the collective, and there is already a medical mask wearing culture.If COVID-22 happened the response from the USA/EU would be almost as pathetic.
And if I just rename this second wave COVID-20 that fact becomes even more obvious.SARS was very different, it was mostly contained, and had less than a thousand deaths in total.
It only proves those countries were prepared even before SARS.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002–2004_SARS_outbreakThis effect probably has occurred with regard to Ebola in Africa.
Ebola did orders of magnitude more harm than SARS.In the EU they wanted to say that China was overreacting and being too authoritarian.
they just allowed tourism to resume in a way that China hadn’t.
This is false, people can travel and do tourism within China.
Cross-provincial tourism has resumed since August: http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-08/12/c_139285359.htmYou fail to understand the problem of neoliberalism here; in the EU each of these countries was out there for themselves.
Just as there is a non-compliant sub-population within many of these countries, between countries the same problem exists.Even if Germany does everything right (and they have done admirably) then neighboring countries that fail to comply keep the infection alive.
If all of Europe worked together they could have wiped it out, but each country for itself was choosing between public health and their own economy.
It is a tragedy of the commons type situation, it takes only a few bad actors to ruin the entire situation.The huge mistake of the USA/EU was made in early months of this year, when they should have halted tourism, put travelers in quarantine, required masks in all transit.
And ironically now their economies go to shit because they have to deal with similar measures for probably years instead of weeks.By no means at all was I disagreeing with @Ram_The_Manparts comment, or I would have replied to it.
So the thing is, these countries did stomp out the illness,
:vuvuzela: go post this on /r/YUROP or something.
I was under the impression that some of these countries went like a week without any deaths at some point or it was in the single digits of deaths. Whereas in the US we've had over 1000 deaths a day basically this entire time.
Maybe, I dunno those statistics too well, but no deaths means nothing.
It has to be zero known infections for at least the entire incubation period or lifting precautions would be premature.Maintaining lock-down even while there are no cases (happens both at the start and between waves) is the most critical part.
With a collectivist attitude the obvious thing to do then is stay home, with an individualist attitude: "why bother? there is hardly any virus out there! I will not get it."It is like trying to choke somebody, but giving them air every time they are so close to passing out.
I'm not sure what that analogy says about me, but hey it works...
No it's that people in the US are actually wearing masks in the big cities, where in Europe everyone was going to clubs and shit while laughing at us.
It needs to be done in tandem with other measures, which most western countries have utterly failed at. Of course masks alone won't flatten the curve.
The season, yeah imo. In the summer everyone could sit at outside at cafes/in parks/at the river or lake. People also did more fun outside activities. In August in Germany, most cases were from people who'd been abroad (mostly as tourists, which is a dumb fucking thing to do but anyway) and with contact tracing the spread could be tamped down. Now everybody's continuing to meet up at the same rate but inside cuz it's cold out, and people are infecting themselves from others within the country. Plus schools and uni reopening (though many unis are taking it very seriously and doing another semester online or almost online, but there's still people moving into dorms). One of the schools in my parents state in Austria already had to be shut down cuz of corona.
It's really a disgrace that we can't pull ourselves together for a few months and wipe it out.
Not really since Europe is warmer than anything on its latitude (and several countries more southerly) during winter
Damn, if only Europe has waited three more weeks for Election day so that Covid could be put away for another four years.
Mother fucker just lock down for 2 months. What they're doing now is everything to keep the economy going (because the eu is on the verge of an economic downturn).
UK's 120k cases a week really helping boost these numbers 💪💪💪💪💪
not until new years I think. Idk it's so messy, I think the thing on Jan 31st was only signalling that the UK was beginning the Withdrawal Process or whtev. However blue passports are already a reality
We left the EU in January of this year with a withdrawal agreement that basically just says various laws, trade, and border arrangements will stay the same for a one year transition period while we negotiate the new trade deals and legal relationship with the EU in the future.
The deadline for those details to be sorted was yesterday at the EU Summit, but they and the EU is saying they want to extend the talks.
If we get to December 31st without a deal all the trade regulations and legal relationships default to a standard set by the World Trade Organisation which amongst other things would mean massive trade tariffs, restricted access to the EU markets for everything from physical products to finance, and massive queues at customs and borders.
Any deals we've been making with countries or trading blocs outside the EU also can't start until January 1st of 2021.
Yep. I live in Ireland and the government have decided not to listen to NPHET, the board specifically designed to give advice on how to counter the pandemic. They're saying that no matter what there won't be another full lockdown. They have a five-level plan, but even level five, which introduces the most restrictions, won't shut down schools or a lot of businesses. More blood for the money gods I guess
Capital interests demand the workers return and will employ cops and "eviction specialists" i.e. hired goons to ensure it.
Europe would've needed to hold the lockdown for two more weeks and would be probably as well off as China but no because the line is suffering.
Tons of Africans are dying from this shit I guarantee you.
Look at excess deaths for 2020 in two years. Shit will probably be shocking.
It's both that there are less deaths in Africa and that massive underreporting is going on due to a lack of resources. In my country (South Africa) 18 000 people have officially died of coronavirus, meanwhile the excess deaths during the same time is over 45 000. So the official death toll is a huge undercount.
Like others have said, both. Obviously a lot of African countries don't have the resources to properly test and report covid cases, but it helps that there's still a lot of agrarian society on the continent.
Africa is a very young place. There's very few people over 60 there, which means naturally there's going to be fewer deaths per capita even if reporting were perfect
