We’re all a little disappointed he didn’t turn out to be our Exact Type of Communist. You’re a little put out about his referencing Kaczynski and his Twitter retweets. Here’s why, despite that, I’m vehemently pro-Luigi and you should be too.
His arc is a normal dude in America. He’s a mid 20s Silicon Valley guy. He engages with mainstream ideas in his cohort, but is otherwise not particularly political. To the extent that he has an ideology, like for society at large, it’s the ideology of the dominant class.
He suffers under his material conditions, but like everyone feels powerless. Despite his position of relative privilege, he has an invisible disability, a really gnarly injury to his spine. He, like everyone else, and more than most, feels the injustice of the US healthcare system in his bones.
Kaczynski is the tinderbox that sparks the explosion, not because of Kaczynski’s ideology, but because of a simple proposition: political violence is possible.
From there, the man needs no political education. He doesn’t need Marx or Lenin. His education is literally welded into his spine. He knows What Is To Be Done, and he does it without Delay.
His (class) character should be judged not for muddled beliefs he had before he became a political actor, but rather for the political action he took. Not who he retweeted: who he killed.
I'm pro Luigi because dude suffered 2 family deaths and experienced the health insurance company then shot the fucking CEO who absolutely deserved it.
That's it. That's all you need to be pro Luigi. Anything and everything else is either irrelevant or icing on the cake.
The only thing you need to be able to do as a communist is explain to people how any given CEO is responsible for 2 or more deaths. Which is something I think I could achieve with 95% of CEOs and that's being generous.
: "All world leaders are responsible for 2 or more deaths, so they all deserve to be killed"
I think that there's a direct parallel that can be drawn between Luigi Mangione and Willem Van Spronsen and, in part, it is that both failed to grasp the urgent necessity of building a movement and the ultimate inadequacy of adventurism and propaganda of the deed.
Both are heroes in my mind and both showed a degree of courage that is rare and should be inspiring however there's a reason why basically everyone knows the name of Vladimir Lenin while Aleksandr Ulyanov is a footnote in history, why Willem Van Spronsen himself has become barely a footnote in history and why we can expect Luigi Mangione to join their ranks in a very short period of time. After all, the American memory is short and it is only getting shorter.
He knew What Is To Be Done
It's not possible for me to disagree with this position any more than I already do. This is not what Lenin wrote about, this is not what Lenin nor the Bolshevik party did. This is not what needs to be done Brian Thompson has already been replaced. A thousand Brian Thompsons could be killed and the merest of dents would be made in the system at best. I respect the actions of Luigi Mangione but he will never achieve the change he sought because of a fundamental failure inherent to his muddled political beliefs.
We need more than that, the world needs more than that.
The important point being that even if his internet history was nothing but Parenti quotes, this would still be true.
This is not what needs to be done Brian Thompson has already been replaced.
My favorite side note in this story has been that the day of the murder, blood still staining the sidewalk, the investors meeting that Thompson was in town for still went on. There was no delay out of respect, just business as usual. In the machine of capitalism, even those at the top of the hierarchy are still just cogs.
agree with almost the whole post except this:
thousand Brian Thompsons could be killed and the merest of dents would be made in the system at bes
if this many ceos were being assassinated (whether by random people or by socialist groups) i would think it would mean we are on the brink of revolution lol, that is a staggering amount of assassinations
Yeah, that's a good point.
I'd say that it would have to be more of an indicator than a measurement; it's not like there's some magic number of CEOs being assassinated that we would need to reach and then, spontaneously, the masses would reach a point where they are ready for revolution but if that number of CEOs were getting merced then for every assassin you could assume that there's at least 10,000 people who are deeply sympathetic. With those sort of numbers you're easily looking at millions of sympathisers and at that point a single spark really can start a prairie fire, in this case.
GOOOOD post.
Barring shenanigans we'll eventually get this guy's motives. Obviously no matter the motive he speaks to a deep rot and also fervor in the American consciousness. However let's not get ahead of ourselves. The courage and heroism he displays is merely that of the man willing to kill. Its nobility depends on motives, and I think the potential his motive might not be so noble is still live (though it would be good if he was concerned about systemic injustice we don't have facts yet). If he did this because he thinks healthcare should be using more AI, is he still a hero? If he thought medbeds exist (I know he's probably not that kind of crank, but still).
However as a figure he speaks to the real rot and horrors of the system. We should keep our assessment on that level, especially since it's not like he's a representative of revolutionary praxis
You're exactly right about adventurism and its limits. What is to be done is not the murder of random figures, it is to dismantle the system. We have seen again that adventurism cannot do that any more than any other event or outrage. The only way to change the world is through organizing and creating a real mass movement.
John Brown's actions were part of a tradition of religious fundamentalist opposition to Christian slavery, they were based on a radical theory and should not be dismissed as just individual zealotry. He did not just throw his life away to harm some slave owners, he had a plan for a guerrilla war waged from the Appalachian mountains by freed slaves and northern volunteers. You might argue that it could never have worked, but it was still different from just doing a cool thing and justifying it by believing it would inspire others to do the same.
Luigi deserves our critical support without question. If I was on the jury, I'd never convict him. It doesn't matter if he had cringe takes on social media or our critiques of adventurism etc.
He took the fight to the enemy. His trial will continually raise the question of the injustice of US society under the dictatorship of Capital. It is our duty to take advantage of that.
They'll try to character assassinate him. They'll claim because he came from a relatively well-off background that therefore he is a phony (while they'd claim he was biased if he was poor). They'll try to claim he was deranged or deluded. We need to continually ignore that and drive home to the point that--regardless of any shortcomings--he acted in self-defense against an inhuman monster, against an avatar of Capital.
Taking advantage of the circumstances is right. The most critical support, and indeed, the circumstances and events are far more important than the man. If he is truly cringe we can let him be while pushing on the real issues and system that he found himself (at least potentially) ground up by
He doesn’t need to be a fucking communist. It’s better if he’s a liberal or a conservative. If they’re willing to take on the bourgeoisie with us then we might actually have a fucking chance.
Besides, it’s not like any of them actually know what communism is. You can tell them taking power back for the working class through violence is anarcho capitalism or libertarian or some shit. As long as it fosters meaningful k solidarity with the working class against the elites I don’t give a good hot shit.
He is the good kind of class traitor. Material conditions shape people, and his sudden change in material conditions convinced him to do what he did.
He is a symptom of late stage capitalist decay in amerikkka. He’s not a white blood cell, he isn’t the cancer killing the body. He’s just a spasm in the twitching corpse.
Kaczynski is the tinderbox that sparks the explosion, not because of Kaczynski’s ideology, but because of a simple proposition: political violence is possible.
Yeh, but the problem is Teds don’t lead to Lenins, they lead to Timothys.
Discussion of praxis aside, if relatively normie techbro types have reached the stage where they’re clipping CEOs in the streets, it does suggest “everything under heaven is in chaos, the station is excellent”
Come on dude you're not even trying. If you just want to come in here and ignorantly troll a bunch of people vastly more knowledgeable about the history of the USSR you aren't welcome here.
The least you could do is post any source for your claims so we can explain why you are so woefully misinformed, regurgitating fascist/liberal talking points, or just straight up lying.
Who was in charge when the Soviets murdered the workers of the Free People's territory? How about when workers doing a labor strike got murdered in Kronstadt?
Can you please provide sources or are you just concern trolling? I genuinely cannot tell, because I am certain we could deconstruct that framing of "murdering workers" also Kronstadt is a TERRIBLE example.
Yeah I coulda just banned them but curiosity getting the better of me.
Yes, we absolutely want another Lenin. You should read him sometime
I read what he did, and why.... makes me think Lenin is a bad idea.
Maybe instead, we should want another Subcommante Marcos...
Where are the Zapatistas today? What is their legacy? The Soviet Union fed its people, defeated the Nazis, and became a nuclear super power. I don't know what you've read about Lenin, but I suspect you've been lied to
They are still doing their AES... And have been for 30 years now. And they haven't tried creating a new set of oligarchs called "vanguards".
Oh, you didn't know...
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/mexicos-zapatista-indigenous-rebel-movement-says-it-is-dissolving-its-autonomous-municipalities
I did.... ypu need to finish reading:
“In upcoming statements, we will describe the reasons and the processes involved in taking this decision,” the statement said. “We will also begin explaining what the new structure of Zapatista autonomy will look like, and how it was arrived at.”
They are still going strong mate: https://enlacezapatista.ezln.org.mx/2024/12/06/25082/
when he thought it was a good idea to murder workers on strike
Ah yes, a vague detailess claim
There were two “Reigns of Terror,” if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the “horrors” of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror—that unspeakably bitter and awful Terror which none of us has been taught to see in its vastness or pity as it deserves.
- Mark Twain
If he had been killed by the cops like we expected, I'd be in favor of putting up statues of our flawed, confused, and confusing hero. But since he's alive, I won't be surprised if his reaction to fame is to get really deranged, and start trying to leverage his public support into something shitty. He did something great, and his reasons or other actions won't change that, but I'm hesitant to sing his praises at the moment. Hopefully he's happy with letting his actions speak for themselves.
Yeah I share my skepticism like many other hexbears have expressed in other threads.
https://archive.is/7jUsF
Any of you see this yet? Apparently his last words, not sure if true so take with a grain of salt - but it seems like it could be.
