I don't fucking care about this guy he is probably not the shooter and you all taking the feds/NYPD word on this need to check youself. You are fucking disgraceful. Any and all Luigi posting is banned from this comm going forward. Do some self crit.
what you think the police might have lied about the shooter's identity and planted the evidence on him??? since when have they ever done that????
Cool. Any time things actually get fun and spicy in the internet the cops show up. I guess there wasn't enough shitty beanis memes or discussion about video games treats here. Let's let the only good website on the entire internet backslide into reddit I guess.
Like it's fine to discuss the case and all but it should not come with any assumptions of him actually being the guy
Can you at least edit the OP to clarify? How can anyone interpret "any and all Luigi posting is banned" as anything other than people aren't allowed to discuss anything to do with the case?
Thank you. Clarification needed! I read the OP as “no posting about Luigi at all,” so if that’s not what it means, please provide more details about what is and is not allowed.
Ok? Did I contradict that part or something? I'm confused why you are pointing this out.
People are allowed to discuss the case, luigi etc. Just not specifically in c/chapotraphouse per this thread. It's not like this is the only comm. I'm fine with it we don't need the entire site full of this shit.
I don't think that's it, Nakoichi didn't attach any qualifiers when they said we could still discuss the case. I think they just worded their post too strongly, and they appear to have used the term "Luigi posting" specifically to refer to low effort posts where people assume Luigi's guilt prematurely, not all posts related to Luigi or the Adjuster. There's a very online sort of connotation to that phrasing a lot of people didn't pick up on, and the OP really just needs more elaboration.
and they appear to have used the term "Luigi posting" specifically to refer to low effort posts where people assume Luigi's guilt prematurely, not all posts related to Luigi or the Adjuster. There's a very online sort of connotation to that phrasing a lot of people didn't pick up on, and the OP really just needs more elaboration.
ye, good shout. apologies @jaywalker, though I didn't intend for that to be read as rude.
So they aren't allowed to post about the case at all in this comm? Because the comment I originally replied to seems to suggest people can post about it in this comm and that is why I asked them to clarify in the OP. I'm not the only person in the comments with this same confusion.
So they aren't allowed to post about the case at all in this comm?
I would presume this to be the case. Tbh, if we are talking about the case that should be done in dedicated c/news posts and if we are memeing the guy, that should go in memes (unless c/news and c/memes are gonna have a similar moderation policy in which case
that's up to the mods of those respective communities. ) As a certified luigiposting hater I wouldn't have any complaints if this is the case.Great, wouldn't it be cool if they clarified so we wouldn't even have to presume? I don't post and rarely comment here in this comm, but it is one of the most active places and banning all discussions about a topic seems really extreme given the topic is very relevant to leftist causes. I agree this Luigi person probably didn't do it and is being railroaded. I also don't really care to see a bunch of posts about this shit on every comm. I just want the OP to clarify the rules so we can follow them.
and then the hexbear mods ate up all the Luigi posting with their comically large spoonAre we all supposed to just accept the idea that Luigi could not possibly be the guy who did it, and that's that? And if we don't, we're "disgraceful"?
Does every mod in this comm agree with this?
Come on. This is absolutely fucking ridiculous.
Yeah, this is conspiracy brainworm nonsense. Log off, make yourself a nice cup of tea, take a walk outside.
Luigi most likely did it. Did the cops plant evidence to deny him bail? I'm almost certain, but I'm not going to call other people "disgraceful" if they don't agree, or even spout that claim without ample proof. I might believe something to be likely true, but It would be irresponsible for me to say you ought to believe it as well, if I don't have evidence.
Either way, whether he did it, or not, is immaterial. A guy killed a health insurance CEO and the working class is fucking stoked about it. Use that an excuse to raise coherent class consciousness among your community. Memes are one way of doing that, but far from the only. Talk to your friends and family.
Anything other engagement with this topic is a waste of time, and should be discarded as such. He did the deed. You do the propaganda. Take of the tin foil hats and start talking to people.
Innocent until proven guilty
Also, could you please not insult the people who doubt what the fucking NYPD says
It's not about doubting the NYPD. Its about the way we go about it. We should doubt the NYPD. We should not simply reject everything as false, simply because it's coming from the mouth of a pig. Bad people can say true things. Bad people can say true things, and frame them in dishonest ways.
What I'm getting at is that a kneejeek reaction which wholesale rejects everything the feds have said isn't helpful, and isn't the cool, based, radical thing people seem to think it is. It just portrays an unwillingness to use critical thinking skills. We need to be thoughtful and discerning, rather than screeching "NO MOAR FUN! I KNOW LUIGI DIDN'T DO IT CUZ COPS BAD AND I'M A BASED COMMIE!!"
We're all nerds on a web forum working with off the same information, no one has all the answers right now, and distracting from the core class war component of this is a waste of time.
I just want my fellow Hexbears to chill tf out, have some fun, log off for a bit, and actually talk to people in your community about class consciousness.
"You must believe the cops or you are a tinfoil hat conspiracy dumdum with no life"
Innocent until proven guilty
That's expressly for legal proceedings, not shitposts on the internet.
It (presumption of innocence) is also recognized as a human right under article 11 of the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
If you really want to get into rules lawyering:
a) The Universal Declaration of Human Rights is widely understood to be non-binding and lack any actual enforcement mechanism
b) The United States of America never ratified it
c) Even if the above were true, it still doesn't have any reasonable application here. I as an individual am not infringing on a person's human rights if I believe they're guilty of a crime and express that belief, nor is any internet forum that hosts said expressions.
Think about it, it just doesn't make any sense
You are the one who started rules lawyering by taking something that is broadly accepted as a useful axiom and claiming it only has value in a legal setting. What does the US ratifying it have to do with the value of presumption of innocence as a concept? Doesn't this reinforce my point that it is valued outside of the judicial setting? That being said I agree you are not infringing on his human rights by believing they are guilty of a crime, and wasn't insinuating you are. I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I just don't understand why so many people are so willing to ascribe culpability without demanding proof.
Sure presumption of innocence is a nice thing to do, but I think considering it a broad axiom is a little generous. Its overwhelming application is to prevent the legal system from branding someone as guilty before conviction.
To me the implication of bringing up the UN declaration is it's something I should hold myself to as a matter of human rights, but like you say I'm not really infringing on them and it doesn't affect anything in the first place
I'm not super concerned about whether he did it or not because I don't think he should be punished regardless, so it doesn't change the calculus for me
but I think considering it a broad axiom is a little generous.
I guess I am compelled to agree, based off of the discourse (not our convo, just broadly.)
To me the implication of bringing up the UN declaration is it's something I should hold myself to as a matter of human rights, but like you say I'm not really infringing on them and it doesn't affect anything in the first place
Yeah, I am frustrated with all the drama and not communicating effectively, I could have been more explicit in my reason for bringing it up in the first place similarly to my interaction with jaywalker further up.
I'm not super concerned about whether he did it or not because I don't think he should be punished regardless, so it doesn't change the calculus for me
The thing that concerns, or rather frustrates, me is not about him being punished rightly or not so much as the way people were so willing to take up his standard with 0 investigation and claim him as a revolutionary figure. Although, I suppose I shouldn't even be dragging the lionization shit up again and am just gonna let it go and log off for the weekend.
Citing the Universal Declaration of Human rights in a forum discussion about whether its OK to shitpost about a hot Italian named Luigi is incredible.
I am not having a conversation here about whether or not it is OK to shitpost about a hot itallian named Luigi, I've already made it clear over many threads the last few days I don't care about the memes as memes. I am making the point that the concept has value outside of a judicial setting and many find presumption of innocence be valuable. People assumed that Luigi was both the guy and guilty from the first headline with zero supporting evidence other than police statements and articles from outlets we would not find credible in any other circumstances.
bro is surprised when the ideologically motivated mod team on the ideologically motivated forum does something about ideology
Yeah, I feel like folks astral projected themselves really hard onto this guy and when they found out, he was just another run-of-the-mill "highly intelligent right-wing guy" they got real sad about it. I frankly don't care if it is or isn't him, it honestly doesn't matter, but recent history shows us that people who take any kind of "direct action" against perceived enemies are all right-wing types.
Like, people got real parasocial with this dude real fast.
i am a self-proclaimed (unofficial assistant to the) mod(eration team) and I do not agree with this
It turns out that if op assumes you think the guy is guilty cause they're bad at reading you can also get your post removed.
well, luigi didn't do it - there's no proof now, and there's unlikely to ever be proof from a credible source
I think the idea is that we can't come to a conclusion either way until we learn more about Luigi himself, hence a moratorium on going along with the official story put forward by the cops.
When do you think Luigi was identified as the patsy? Please let me know if you see cop-supplied assumptions in the below or if I'm missing anything.
(a) Before the fed-planned shooting. They looked for a reasonable match for their assassin. I'm not even dismissing this one but not going to type out a lot if nobody thinks this is the case.
(b) Before the independent shooting. The feds keep tabs on a big list of people who have dropped off the grid and can reasonably match pretty much any height, race and build to take the fall for major "crimes" committed by a masked individual. Overly complex.
(c) After the fed-planned shooting. Including for completeness' sake but it would be pretty hilarious if they didn't plan that far ahead.
(d) After the independent shooting, before he got to Altoona. NYPD didn't want to hog the credit and figured the Altoona PD needed some time in the spotlight.
(e) After the independent shooting, after he got to Altoona, before finding out that he had dropped off the grid. The cops were just extremely lucky that their close-enough match happened to have been a ghost for a long time before the shooting.
(f) After the independent shooting, after he got to Altoona, after finding out that he had dropped off the grid, before getting his ID. Altoona PD have been hiding the power level of their surveillance state and can use McDonalds-level security cameras to figure out that you've been laying low for months.
(g) After the independent shooting, after he got to Altoona, after finding out that he had dropped off the grid, after getting his ID. They've been stopping tall athletic white dudes with eyebrows all across the country until they hit the jackpot with Luigi and convincing everyone they let go not to talk about it.
i agree with nako on this one more than the previous navelgazing - trial hasn't progressed an inch and therefore not a shred of evidence has been presented. any news coming out, other than statements from luigi's lawyer, are crafted statements from the NYPD and FBI to a compliant corporate media specifically designed to influence any jury into associating the name luigi with "CEO murderer" and should be fucking dismissed out of hand.
in fact, the only thing that should be happening from now on is a mass campaign of sowing doubt about all facets of the case.
there's no proof luigi was the adjuster, there's no proof luigi was holding a gun when arrested, there's no real proof of a single fucking thing - only bullshit claims from a pack of bumbling pigs who cannot be trusted whatsoever and should never be given any benefit of the doubt ever, who couldn't find the adjuster for 5 days and didn't know a fucking thing. If a police officer is speaking, either out of their own mouth or through a mouthpiece in the press, they're fucking lying and should be laughed at and spat onThey changed narratives about the gun at least two times (from a Glock to an obscure firearm to 3d printed gun), they released that "manifesto" that is uncharacteristically short compared with other shooter manifestos (ie the intern typing the manifesto had to rush to type a short fake one and push it out to the press in a timely manner), footage either doesn't match his facial features and clothes or is too unreliable from compression/video artifacts to pin him as the shooter, and the whole thing about him getting caught at McDonalds doesn't really stand up to scrutiny honestly.
Shit like "uh aktually, he shot the CEO because he has a fucked up back and got fucked over by UnitedHealth" doesn't mean a goddamn thing because it's trivially easy to find millions of USians who were also fucked over by UnitedHealth. There is probably at least a million USians, personally ruined by UnitedHealth or had family/friends who were personally ruined by UnitedHealth, who wanted that CEO dead. The shooter was just one out of a million who stepped up.
The only real hole behind Luigi being a patsy is that the state tends to not use rich kids as patsies. But there's nothing stopping Luigi from being a copycat with no real plan who got caught at an unfortunate time and who the state is trying to pin as the shooter. It does explain the massive discrepancy between how the shooter was so calm at liquidating the CEO (most people who have never killed before, and certainly sheltered rich kids who have never faced real adversity, don't have it in them to be so calm after taking someone's life) and was so good at covering their tracks and how the official narrative portrays the post-shooting actions of the shooter as being a bumbling idiot.
At the end of the day, people can and will believe what they want to believe. I don't really care whether people actually think Luigi did it or not, but please have some discernment. ACAB includes not uncritically swallowing whatever narrative the pigs are trying to push.
That “manifesto” was like 1/4 the length of the average reply in a Hexbear struggle session 😬
And a mass campaign sharing the names and addresses of other healthcare execs. For funsies.
I actually got around to reading the """Manifesto""" today and it's exactly what a 40 year old cop who dropped out of high school would think an Ivy League zoomer would sound like.
Like this popo with doughnut crumbs down the front of his shirt starting to type in the way he normally types on Facebook and then hitting backspace 25 times (instead of ctrl+a or holding down backspace) because you're not fabricating evidence for your average shooter, you're fabricating evidence for an Ivy League shooter. Oh, oh shit. How do upper class people speak?
Hmm... They say "Oh I do declare!". And they're polite because that's how they are on TV. That means he would say sorry for causing a scene. But wait, he would use a bigger word. "Oh, I do apologize." God dammit you're a genius! Lets throw in some left-adjacent lingo aaaaaaand
End result:
"The spiral notebook, if present1, has some straggling notes and To Do lists that illuminate the gist2 of it. My tech is pretty locked down because I work in engineering so probably not much info3 there. I do apologize4 for any strife of traumas but it had to be done. Frankly, these parasites simply had it coming.5"
1 yes that is definitely how educated zoomers speak
2 why yes, it shall shed light on the situation. Wait, no, illuminate! It shall illuminate the.... gist! of it
3 oh shit he's supposed to be tech bro adjacent.... uhh, my shit's locked down bro, I'm an engineer, you can't get much info outta that y'know bro, crytpo blockchain encryption
4 Oh I do declare that I apologize for the situation at hand and I am sincerely sorry for strife and.... synonym for strife...
5 I do apologize, but also this is a
rich personwait what would a zoomer call it... b... boogie? Autocorrect isn't helping me here. What's another lingo? Parasite! Haha. I'm terribly sorry for trauma and strife but also this subhuman parasite deserved to die.Yeah IF Luigi is the guy, they planted the gun and manifesto. Someone trolling the cops with a fake backpack of monopoly money and writing on bullet casings isn't going to write a dogshit manifesto like that.
It does strike me as very odd that a tech bro would have a handwritten manifesto on his person and not something digital that would be automatically disseminated, but maybe I watch too many movies.
I lean toward Luigi being the guy (not cause the cops said 🙄), definitely far from a final decision (one would be foolish to have made up their mind with the information currently available), but there's a lot of weird stuff with this case that I'm interested to figure out an explanation for. Including what you described, who handwrites a manifesto?
Yeah I am leaning toward him being the guy but there are quite a few things that don’t add up. My current theory is that he did it but the cops planted evidence to make sure the charges stick, because most of what they have without the gun, manifesto, and cash is just circumstantial. I also think it’s a bit foolish to have made up your mind one way or another because we don’t have enough information yet. There are things that point to Luigi being the killer and there are things that point to it being a frame job.
Yep it could be an OJ situation ("cops framed a guilty man")
Could be that the cops are full of shit and he's not the guy. It was always going to take more than just a week to figure it out though.
I demand you reopen c/the_mangione_tank and let us stack rocks in peace.
more like no taking feds at their word
Don't get me wrong this guy sucks but we should not be perpetuating the narrative that is getting him railroaded.
Simply.mentioning Luigi is not necessarily perpetuatung that narrative. He's a household name. He will be in the news cycle for some time to come. What is wrong with the mod team lately?
I should have been more precise in my wording. It is fine to discuss the case and the person but I just want people to stop arguing over what he allegedly did and nitpicking to death how it relates to his politics because we don't even know it is him and it leads to a lot of petty arguments and takes that make many of our comrades uncomfortable here.
Can you please edit the OP to provide more clarification about the types of posts that are and are not allowed?
This should've been the sticky. People were unironically dissecting the "manifesto" that he didn't release. This website wasted time arguing about him as a person when the real conversation should be about how the state routinely frames innocent people, especially Black men, for crimes they didn't commit and how the state also routinely tries shoving narratives down people's throats (seriously, how many times did they change the narrative about the weapon?)
And remember, if the brows don't fit, you must acquit.
But but but the police are the paragons of truth and honesty! There is no way they would just lie about something to cover it up conveniently for them
edit: writing this made me sick. Fuck all cops, everything they have to say, and anyone who listens to them.
