the thing is that anarcho-market-socialism just seems like Ancapistan but with worker co-ops to me. I don't get why, in this age of technology, you would ever choose to unironically have firms and markets when we could just centrally plan everything.
I think he does see it as a transition stage, though? I used to keep up with him before he really showed his true colors, and I'm pretty sure he saw market socialism merely as a logical next step from where we are now.
yeah I edited my comment, although I'm sort of skeptical of the "transition stage" argument. In a first-world country with a million little firms producing lots of different commodities it would make sense, but for third-world nations (let's be honest - that's the only place where revolution is going to be happening for a long time) then I think it's easier to nationalize the little industry that exists and skip the whole part where you have to root out and dismantle the market system.
This also depends on the state of the world too, since nations like Vietnam and China had to kind of convert back to market-states since they were sanctioned and deprived of any sort of foreign investment. Without another USSR it's hard to commit to a command economy.
And also that the inherent anarchy of markets rather than a centrally planned economy creates waste and other inefficiencies, something we can't afford if we are serious about dealing with the climate crisis.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/22/asia/china-ren-zhiqiang-xi-jinping-intl-hnk/index.html this guy was corrupt af and got owned just this year LOL
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-china-31310325 this guy was similarly involved in corruption scandal and international intrigue/organize crime... got owned
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/1502808/Tycoon-paid-3-bn-for-stay-of-execution.html and this shit is just sad LOL... another billionaire OWNED
Dude, you have no idea what you're talking about, Chinese billionaires are kept coloring within the lines & many have been executed for their very serious corruption & dealings with the black market & mafia
You're a lib if you think that jailing a billionaire for 18 years for his fucking slimy corruption is the same as Western capitalism & "liberal democracy" giving Jeffrey Epstein a fucking plea deal
You’re a lib if you think that jailing a billionaire for 18 years for his fucking slimy corruption is the same as Western capitalism & “liberal democracy” giving Jeffrey Epstein a fucking plea deal
What am I if I point out that they were fine with his exploitation of the workers and only went after him after he critized Xi?
no one's invented the "communism" button yet, and Marx himself just critiqued capitalism... if only to reveal contradictions that must be addressed and utilized in a less exploitative & socially deleterious manner
"productive forces" have to be utilized and improved and turned toward social ends. firms have to be organized & workers have to be engaged in production
if you don't think the "mass line" & nationalization of large industries just this year are tantamount to an actual full-on display of the power of "labor theory of value", you're losing the thread imo
https://www.ft.com/content/22108ddd-3280-4013-bcd8-1adc9e6ae13d PRC just reported 4.9% growth yesterday, their consumer spending is returning. And yet, we will only see losses in any other major capitalist country. India shrank something like 30% in the 2nd quarter, that's devastating.
China still leads the world in manufacturing output, the raw numbers of comparative global economic activity & dynamism make this clear
the thing is that anarcho-market-socialism just seems like Ancapistan but with worker co-ops to me. I don't get why, in this age of technology, you would ever choose to unironically have firms and markets when we could just centrally plan everything.
I think he does see it as a transition stage, though? I used to keep up with him before he really showed his true colors, and I'm pretty sure he saw market socialism merely as a logical next step from where we are now.
Tbh, that's definitely not his worst opinion
yeah I edited my comment, although I'm sort of skeptical of the "transition stage" argument. In a first-world country with a million little firms producing lots of different commodities it would make sense, but for third-world nations (let's be honest - that's the only place where revolution is going to be happening for a long time) then I think it's easier to nationalize the little industry that exists and skip the whole part where you have to root out and dismantle the market system.
This also depends on the state of the world too, since nations like Vietnam and China had to kind of convert back to market-states since they were sanctioned and deprived of any sort of foreign investment. Without another USSR it's hard to commit to a command economy.
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waiting for xi to nationalize the entire chinese economy
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holy shit its almost like its MLM
cant believe you just said China is a MLM scheme how dare u libaral
MLMs be like "heyyyy hun 🤗😘, can I interest you in an opportunity to overthrow the bourgeoisie?"
:mao-aggro-shining:
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The USSR also did markets for a bit, but Stalin shut that down.
There are arguments for Market Socialism, but unless you seriously address the fact that it's capitalism it's just going to eat you alive.
And also that the inherent anarchy of markets rather than a centrally planned economy creates waste and other inefficiencies, something we can't afford if we are serious about dealing with the climate crisis.
It's basically the opinion of the chinese government.
Dress up capitalism with fancy words and pretend it isn't nearly unfettered wealth extraction from your populace.
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Completely applicable and completely fair. Continue simping for Jack Ma you lib.
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Say this in the medieval ages and they'll hang you for witchcraft
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God damn right I'll shit on fake socialists and dictators.
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Damn, this argument is so good I think it must have been written by a liberal.
you do realize that you're the type of "leftist" who would've denounced the USSR and sided with the US over it?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/22/asia/china-ren-zhiqiang-xi-jinping-intl-hnk/index.html this guy was corrupt af and got owned just this year LOL
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-china-31310325 this guy was similarly involved in corruption scandal and international intrigue/organize crime... got owned
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/1502808/Tycoon-paid-3-bn-for-stay-of-execution.html and this shit is just sad LOL... another billionaire OWNED
Dude, you have no idea what you're talking about, Chinese billionaires are kept coloring within the lines & many have been executed for their very serious corruption & dealings with the black market & mafia
You're a lib if you think that jailing a billionaire for 18 years for his fucking slimy corruption is the same as Western capitalism & "liberal democracy" giving Jeffrey Epstein a fucking plea deal
laughable
What am I if I point out that they were fine with his exploitation of the workers and only went after him after he critized Xi?
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That's racist just like a liberal too.
Weird how I'm talking about billionaires and leadership and you just keep yelling at me for being white and referencing "yellow hordes".
no one's invented the "communism" button yet, and Marx himself just critiqued capitalism... if only to reveal contradictions that must be addressed and utilized in a less exploitative & socially deleterious manner
"productive forces" have to be utilized and improved and turned toward social ends. firms have to be organized & workers have to be engaged in production
if you don't think the "mass line" & nationalization of large industries just this year are tantamount to an actual full-on display of the power of "labor theory of value", you're losing the thread imo
https://www.ft.com/content/22108ddd-3280-4013-bcd8-1adc9e6ae13d PRC just reported 4.9% growth yesterday, their consumer spending is returning. And yet, we will only see losses in any other major capitalist country. India shrank something like 30% in the 2nd quarter, that's devastating.
China still leads the world in manufacturing output, the raw numbers of comparative global economic activity & dynamism make this clear
So you're a capitalist?
Anarcho-Dengism