Programming is like the only thing I enjoy that pays money, fortunately it pays pretty well. I'm a CS major now but I feel like I'm betraying my values by doing something that pays so well. I know it's not necessarily bourgeois, definitely petite bourgeois but idk it still feels kinda gross
Don’t feel bad you’re getting paid what all workers deserve to get paid. Organizing efforts and mutual aid systems always need more funding.
Aren’t you still selling your labour to survive as a programmer? I don’t really see how it’s petit bourgeois going by the Marxist definition.
Yeah, unless you're managing other people or just passively owning a business, you're still a prole. Even most managers these days are proles, just snitchy ones.
idk it seems like something where you'd own your own means of production bc it's something you can do from any computer anywhere, you're just choosing to let yourself be a worker under something. Maybe it's artisanal? it's a weird gap
Having money and spending money doesn't invalidate you as a leftist. We all have to exist under capitalism somehow.
I'm an engineer, so I had some of the same feelings. For me, it came down to asking: "what is the most beneficial/ least destructive application for my skills?" I'm lucky enough to have a job lecturing at a public university, but anything that's not weapons manufacturing would be an ok way to get by, I guess.
I try to ask the same thing with how I spend my stupid huge (at least, relative to people my age without STEM degrees) salary. I try to avoid dumb consumerism, waste, and supporting unethical businesses (not that any consumption is entirely ethical, you know the drill) but when this semester's over, I'm not going to beat myself up too badly for buying whatever games I decide will be a good distraction, and some new makeup to regain my high femme glory after living like a fucking disgusting neckbeard all lockdown.
I'm doing an engineering degree, I really like it but I see how bougie the occupation is and it kinda puts me off. Most engineering jobs are just you working at some big firm building shit that makes money rather than actually improving the lives of people (which is why I wanted to do eng in the first place). Being an engineer under socialism would be a dream come true for me because I would know for sure that my work would directly go into helping others.
I'm lucky my younger self had strong anti military instincts and a penchant for the outdoors, which steered me into agricultural engineering. It still takes some effort to maneuver into something actually useful, as a ton of people just end up helping silicon valley types try to "disrupt" farming. but after going back to grad school, I'm on my way to working in reducing greenhouse gas emissions in ag
a ton of people just end up helping silicon valley types try to “disrupt” farming.
This is exactly the type of shit I am talking about. I don't want to be doing that and anyone who wants a meaningful career shouldn't want to do that either.
Being an engineer under socialism would be a dream come true for me because I would know for sure that my work would directly go into helping others.
I feel like community makerspaces are a practical application of this. Obviously, it's not actual socialism, but it's essentially a community library for tools and engineering knowledge. I'd love to be involved with something like that myself, but it would take a bit of money to get it started. Even better would be a network of community workshops that share designs, best practices, lesson plans, etc.
My dad is a mechanical engineer doing something with nuclear waste idk (we actually have one of the highest engineers per capita here) and the engineers here definitely don't act bougie. There are definitely jobs in engineering that aren't part of the military industrial complex they just aren't as promoted
Thanks for the reading material - I appreciate anything that helps me structure my thoughts on ethical science, and the letter was a great first impression.
Funny you mention pentesting - our students had to learn what they needed for that on their own for a while, because the telecoms lecturer we had at the time refused to teach network security out of fear that students would become 1337 HAX0Rs.
This is something I've had to think about, because I love teaching control theory (and now that I've made a semester of videos for online teaching, I fully intend to do so on YouTube for free). Feedback control is essential for any system that must self-regulate, so in a world where nobody knows anything about it, you don't have guided missiles, but you also don't have insulin pumps, efficient power generation or electric vehicles. Knowledge isn't inherently good or evil, and denying somebody knowledge that they would use to benefit humanity is also effectively doing harm. (Hence why I feel so strongly about getting our course material out from behind the paywall.)
The society that the students are going out into is a big factor: if I was American, I'd perhaps feel differently about teaching in this field because the majority of graduates do get sucked up by the military industrial complex. Here in South Africa, we only have one significant weapons company, but we do have a shitload of heavy industry and infrastructure projects that uplift communities, and require engineers of all shapes and sizes. (Pity that weapons company is one of the few places that gives really good bursaries... It's worth acknowledging that poor students have far less freedom to weigh up the ethics of who they work for.)
I believe you also have a part to play as a teacher in shaping who your students become: the first thing that planted the seed of anticapitalism in my teenage brain was listening to our crew-cut disciplinarian biology teacher choking up telling us about abalone poaching, and the sick culture of greed and corruption that's destroying the natural world. So, in the introductory lecture, when I tell students about the applications of control theory, I make damn sure they know they are directly contributing to evil if they go in that direction. I also openly refuse to give anybody a reference for a job in that industry. The other academics I work with who have similar specialities feel the same way I do, so hopefully, together, we might have some influence.
I try to avoid dumb consumerism, waste, and supporting unethical businesses
Hope you don't invest :)
People with money are not the issue. People who use their money and privilege to perpetuate inequality and suffering are. Make money comrade and then use the privilege that comes with that to fight for a better world
"The problem isn't some idiot in power giving you money. Take the money! But take it without the moralistic feeling of guilt. The next day kill him and if he says 'but I gave you money,' tell him 'you idiot why did you give me the money?'" - Zizek
Zizek often has god awful takes, but when he's right he's right.
Even when he's wrong, at least he's engaging. Very rare trait in philosophers; esp. communist philosophers
Even well paid workers are still part of the working class. Just don't turn into a twitter lib who tells other people "learn to code"
This is the strategy with digital marketing. There's no secret math behind 99.999% of campaigns. Just some A/B split testing.
Well paid workers can easily accumulate enough Capital to become petit bourgeoisie at minimum, and often amass enough relatively quickly to have their interests aligned more with the bourgeoisie than with other workers, though.
PMCs are basically the cops of the working class, but they act sneakily to undermine you because they are the "good guys"
Engels was a capitalist's son; he literally could have chosen to be an eternal failson and be rich and chill forever. Instead he wrote about the conditions of the working class, gave shitloads of money to Marx, made speeches and was involved in uprisings against governments enough times to get arrest warrants in newspapers and expelled from cities and countries, and spent so much of his life writing with Marx or editing/compiling scattered notes and outlines after Marx's death.
Being a class traitor is cool and good as long as you use that surplus money or time to do mutual aid and advance leftist causes.
Ngl this kind of pisses me off. If you feel so bad, simply give your money away. Or don’t but then don’t talk about how bad you feel. Useless liberal hand wringing
You aren't bougie if you don't profit from the labor of others, making money doesn't make you bourgeois, don't worry.
Being a leftist means being in poverty, and the more poverty you are in, the more of a leftist you are.
Gommunism = no food starts at home, be the change you want to see in the world, and so on and so on.
use your position and pay to help others. marx needed engles to write capital, be somebody's engles
