Shaun's the only member of so-called Breadtube that has never disappointed me. I wouldn't be the least surprised if he were actually a tankie.
Eh, there was this one time when after Andy Ngo got milkshaked and someone hit him Shaun said some misguided lib shit about not hitting the guy "that helps noone". Not a HUGE deal but it was a minor disappointment.
Potentially more troubling though is the fact that after him and Jen had a falling out, Jen has said some shit along the lines of him exploiting her labor. I cant remember all of the details anymore and didn't save the source, but basically she subtweeted breadtube for taking people's patreon money and producing very little content* (though, hilariously, she name dropped Hbomb as one of the good ones in a reply and he's like maybe the worst when it comes to this lol). Someone replied that they think videos like Shaun's Charlottesville video are worth it (and like, I kinda agree, thats a great video), and Jen said that she basically did all the research for that video and got no credit for that. Thing is, I've also heard Shaun talk on stream, well before the falling out with Jen, about going through the Charlottesville footage for that video himself. So its a bit of a he said she said I guess, with the truth possibly be somewhere in the middle. I find it difficult to believe either of them are blatantly lying, so its possible that Jen did a lot of research on that video but not all of it or something.
*The thing about him hiding how much he makes on Patreon is also a criticism I'm not sure what to think about.
i mean sure it doesnt 'help anyone' materially other than giving all the leftists that see it a good dopamine hit. im always on board with making the fash cry for that reason, but its not like it disappears them
It does intimidate them though which makes them less likely to be in public
idk, kinda feel like there are more effective ways to intimidate fash, like getting them fired from jobs for instance
I wonder what percentage of Shaun's viewers know that there ever was a Jen? Something that I think every youtuber needs to learn is that if you're on a team then all contributing voices need to be heard by the audience in the final product, because that's the only level that 90% of the viewership will engage with.
In a couple of HBomb's more recent videos, he seems to have figured this out because he makes sure his producer is referenced directly so his audience knows that he isn't a one-man show. Hell, the Game Grumps make their editors into minor recurring characters in their Let's Plays (though I haven't watched them in a few years so idk if they still do it).
Yeah agreed. Barry of the Grumps got so popular he's no longer part of the Grumps but has his own successful Twitch career. I've been in his streams sometimes they are fun. Glad Hbomb is giving his producer credit, on twitter he was saying how he realized how much he NEEDS a producer to focus him.
I wonder what percentage of Shaun’s viewers know that there ever was a Jen?
That's a good point. I'm aware because I'm pretty online, but I've never really been aware of who Jen was or what role she played in the production of the videos or when she was around, because I've never known the channel as anything but just "Shaun"
If you're a youtuber or influencer or whatever and you've hired an editor or something, you've officially become petite bourgeoisie. While this isn't that bad in and of itself, it sometimes shows how one's material conditions can alter their political beliefs. It seems like Shaun is principled enough (then again I don't make the mistake of following breadtubers on twitter). Though I would advocate leftist 'content creators' who get popular enough should form media collectives/co-ops rather than raking in the majority of the patreon money for themselves.
I mean, at the end of the day, noone's perfect. I think its good to remember those we admire have flaws yaknow? I don't think any of this is like, you are cancelled for me forever worthy.
I agree with you, but even at the least it sounds to me like the two folks lost a good friendship, which is a bummer in of itself
Source on what Jen said: https://twitter.com/deaths_cool/status/1287872558277132289
I didn't know they had a falling out. I knew she was removed from the name of the channel, but I always thought it was because she didn't have much to do with the content of the channel anymore.
For some more context, she does seem to suggest that she did not want credit on the video in another tweet: https://twitter.com/deaths_cool/status/1287896348256337920
Thanks. Did you dig it up or did you have it handy?
I'm really curious about the truth behind this, since as I said I've heard Shaun say on stream that he looked through footage himself for that video (and not in response to Jen, just in passing, before Jen said that). As I said elsewhere, I wouldn't be done with Shaun forever if Jen's side turned out to be 100% true, I'd just rather know what the truth is lol.
I had it handy. I don't know anything about what goes on behind the scenes, though.
Depending on what Shaun meant specifically, I don't know how both can't be true. Shaun probably did examine the video but the busywork of timestamping and clipping would still need to be done at some point.
For what is worth, I don't think she was complaining about being exploited, rather that the breadtubers present themselves as doing all the work themselves when they aren't, though I think this isn't a problem exclusive to breadtube, it's more of a youtube issue. Shitton of channels that depend on patreon revenue have editors and artists on a payroll which are basically unseen. It's a buyers market out there.
Wait, they had a falling out? I never knew. I kinda miss the Shaun and Jen streams. I always figured they just wanted to do their own thing.
Yeah unfortunately the stream getting split up wasn't just an amicable decision. I miss those streams too.
She still streams on her own using the account they used to share and Shaun has a new one. But I'll definitely miss their streams together.
everyone on the internet is grifting, no leftist movement will come out of "breadtube" or anything related to any of the fake ass grifters who are all there solely for a cheque, they suck and anyone who likes them is honestly just a grating idiot who just treats politics as part of their persona with no understanding of the actual consequences
yeah pipelines are good, which breadtube isn't because their "politics" are entirely aesthetic and they are no different than any surrogate internet friend that people put on to drown out their thoughts, sorry I hurt your surrogate friends feelings, but they are completely useless to any real leftist movement, if not actively detrimental by funneling potential leftists into a place of nihilistic navel gazing dishonesty and inaction I'm not going to go full conspiracy but "breadtube" may as well be a CIA op designed to funnel energy out of the left, you're idiots for pretending its doing anything else though, keep lying to yourself that its "building" the left, then be really surprised in 5 years when your movement collapses completely cause its filled with flakes and grifters
honestly this is just like watching the "alt right" again lol, you guys are clowns
Its not a matter of opinion whether or not Breadtube is a pipeline. It is a demonstrative objective fact that people have been radicalized by Breadtube. You are objectively wrong. The fact that you're annoyed at some opinions you see on /r/Breadtube or twitter or whatever lead you to this garbage doesn't change the reality that many people, who in some cases were literally proto-fash before they discovered Shaun or whoever, have come to be leftists of some sort. And I'm not even talking about people who end up as radlib socdems, I'm talking about people becoming outright communists after having breadtube as a starting point. And guess what? In the case of the people who were proto-fash before discovering breadtube, of which there are a shocking number, them ending up as socdem radlibs is still overall better than them sinking deeper into the alt right rabbit hole.
You've formed this idea in your head based on petty grievances with people you don't like. Fuck off with it and stop trying to destroy the left wing version of Sargon and co. At least the fascists are smart enough to realize that their version of the pipeline is a good thing for them. Leftists are fucking morons about that kind of shit. Get your head out of your ass.
ah yes "petty grievances" like proving to be complete hypocrites on key issues that prove they don't have a coherent understanding of the politics they represent outside of an aesthetic sense
nah I'm not going to pretend that breadtube doesn't give a fuck about trans people and just uses them in bad faith while underplaying every issue they bring to the table with the exact rhetoric you use now, just downplaying everything trans people face as "it doesn't matter" "its petty", you're all fake as fuck leftists, see you in 5 years when you've moved on to whatever phase is next in your life.
Are you expanding the problems with Contra specifically to the entirety of Breadtube lmao? Because I gave up defending Contra awhile ago. Too many trans comrades and particularly enby comrades made their completely legitimate grievances with her clear to me, including my own partner.
For anyone other than Contra and he who must not be named though, I really don't give a fuck about their motives for making videos tbh. If it works, it works. And the results speak for themselves. You totally ignored that part of my post though. Guess turning proto-fashes away from the alt right pipeline is meaningless to you. Like its totally cool to just allow more people to end up fash by abandoning the idea of creating content on Youtube completely.
I've already been a leftist for more than five years. So fuck off with calling me fake. You're incredibly toxic. If you think everyone here is fake because of one conversation you should just fucking leave. Community would be better off.
But it isn't "turning people away from being fash" that's my point, its turning people into stupidpol posters who blame trans people and the "idpol" for all their problems and teaching them to hide their grievances behind a bad faith "economic concern" angle, I'd rather have the openly nazi fascists who we know what they are than these disingenuous red fascist fucks trying to infect from the left
Its hilarious you call me toxic because I'm uncompromising on consistency and honesty, sorry that's called being a true leftist, I'm not going to just be a slimy post modernist and manipulate the connection between words and actions.
Lmao you think Breadtube fans are stupidpol posters? Where the fuck did you get that idea? You're off your rocker. None of the ex-protofash I've met who turned left because of breadtube are anything close to that. Most people who complain about Breadtube are coming from the exact opposite angle, thinking that Breadtube is creating a bunch of radlibs who only care about idpol and don't have interest in the economig angle. Which just goes to show you how silly the complaints are, two sides of that argument both blame leftube for the people they don't like. Incredible. Breatube makes way too many videos about idpol issues for me to imagine that stupidpol enjoys them in the slightest.
I'm calling you toxic because you're writing off the whole fucking community as "fake" based on your disagreement with me specifically.
Not a convincing argument that your own anecdotal evidence about all the "ex-fash" you know are totally not watching breadtube, I can point to actual evidence which is simply produced by browsing stupidpol on any given day, that shows that stupidpol does support breadtubers in the idea that they recognize they are useful idiots to sow division, that doesn't mean stupidpol users are watching every video they produce, subscribe to them or even like them, but stupidpol loves using breadtubers as tools as breadtubers have positioned and presented themselves as speaking with utmost authority on what they are talking about. Have an issue with something? Well sorry, here's a clip of a breadtuber disagreeing, your problems don't exist and if you keep trying to insist they do then you are an idpol obessesed librul. That isn't possible without breadtubers having positioned themselves speaking with way too much authority when they are just random who's on the internet, this is the key factor that makes the breadtube no different than the alt right or any other attempt to silence minorities concerns by speaking for them and around them through bad faith actors.
OK first of all, my evidence is anecdotal but your browsing stupidpol is real evidence lmao. I don't pull my evidence just from the people I know, I pull it from things I've observed in leftist communities. But both things are actually anecodtal. Neither of us have data. Also, I didn't say they don't watch breadtube I said the ex-fash I know do or did watch breadtube and it deradicalized them from the right and served as the starting point to turning them far left.
When the hell has someone like Shaun ever said anything that stupidpol can use to shoot down minority concerns lmao? Literally the only two people involved with "Breadtube" that I can think of that have done that are Contra, and basically only on twitter with her, and Vaush who I don't even fucking count as being breadtube. Consequently, those are the two leftish youtbers I don't defend at all anymore (or ever in Vaush's case).
Besides, the fact that stupidpol use one or two of them to manipulate their own narrative doesn't make the the entirety of leftish youtube content bad. Crypto-chuds gonna use bullshit to manipulate the narrative just like open chuds. Whatever clips they are using, it isn't a majority of their content. And if you look at the ACTUAL FUCKING BREATUBE SUB, you'll see that it has nothing in common with Stupidpol. Also, the fact that stupidpol users use breadtube to manipulate their narrative does NOT prove that they arrived at their current viewpoints because of breadtube now does it? That was your original claim.
Maybe you should stop browsing stupidpol so much. Probably bad for your mental health. Its a very specific form of very online poisoning. Stupidpol have no real world power whatsoever, they are completely irrelevant to leftism as a whole. They are not a threat. Ignore them. Like i hate them too but you've clearly gone way too down that rabbit hole for your own well being.
Its not how I see things right now but honestly I would love more than anything if I was wrong and you were right, I never want to be right about this kind of thing but I just don't feel or see things going to that way
Honestly, I can empathize with that, and I'm sorry for reacting harshly at first. At the end of the day, we're comrades and should treat each other well. So I sincerely apologize for the mean things I said.
Does Hakim count as Breadtube? Because he and Shaun are my two favorites.
I also like PhilTube, Innuendo Studios and HBG but I've heard they don't have a good rep around here.
Hakim is incredible!! Without a real firm definition of what Breadtube actually consists of, I generally presume that it excludes tankies (Bread being derived from Conquest of Bread, and anarchists generally being anti-ML).
True, I just assumed they'd all fall under the same label because left youtube is pretty niche. Though I didn't know Hakim was ML (as opposed to just an L).
Somewhat off-topic but are MLs necessarily tankies? I thought it was used by MLs to refer to other MLs who uncritically support perceived ML regimes.
The term Tankie was levied against the Communist Party of Great Britain who supported Khrushchev's response to the Hungarian Uprising of 1956. Of course, this was an anti-communist slur, so it didn't really matter if you were for or against the use of tanks in putting down this uprising. Because it's a slur, all you needed to be, to be a tankie, was be a communist. So yeah, all ML's are ipso-facto "tankies". In recent time, it's sort of become reclaimed by Marxist Leninists.
Makes sense. Regardless of whether it came from leftists, it's nowadays used by libs to deride anyone left of Biden.
Put some respect on Radical Reviewer's name >:( but no, he's pretty good too, digestible reviews of leftist theory is just the thing that the Breadtube libs sorely need.
Also he has the most well behaved dog I've ever seen
Radical Reviewer is pretty good, but I was commenting on being disappointed, and I'm pretty disappointed by Radical Reviewers "USSR bad" position
Fair, also I don't read before posting, that was a misfire lmao
All city planning is rooted in Juche thought. Source: I watched a YouTube video and posted memes about trains in high school.
You don't have persuade me with a video from breadtube, it's about persuading Shaun.
Who knows, with Zenz's questionable background and methodology, and China's great firewall to control whatever comes out of their country. Probably somewhere in the middle.
A lot of the western left is beginning to learn more about China I've noticed.
Whenever I see people complain about western and or white leftists, I remind them we are literally having to relearn over a hundred years of history and unlearn so many lies we are taught. This is a result of random guys just having learned that there is a left of the Democratic party within the last 5 years. This doesn't excuse our bad takes, but we really need to keep this in mind.
it's honestly insane how much and how quickly the left has grown in Western and Westernized countries in the past few years
A country that produces the best dick pills has a lot going for it
The other day in a group chat I had a friend say something like "I learned the DPRK is an actual place you can visit, I wonder how much there is that just isn't taught to us?"
I do think some people are starting to question things more and that's really cool
Fun to tell apolitical people you can buy weed there. (I read this in a travel blog post, so dunno how accurate it is, but...)
They'll come around. You can't see the obvious progress China is making and listen to how they're depicted in the media without having some questions. The genocide stuff really is a matter of "how much do you believe the state department".
On one hand sure maybe China is just killing untold numbers of people. On the other hand if that was true you would think the US would have a photo or video or something? Kinda like if the US didn't actually land on the moon wouldn't the Soviets have called them out on it?
Stupid China, don’t you know that if a neighborhood is not yet densely populated you can only build roads for the vroom vroom machines? I, an economy writer at Forbes have never contemplated that public transit might attract residents and business to an area.
Shauns cool. He's not a tankie but he's still going to give credit where credit is due. He's a pretty open-minded dude.
Criticism of long-term urban planning brought to you by the country that implemented the Homestead Acts.
