:AyyyyyOC-big:
I fucking hate how the meaning of violence has gotten so broad and so diluted that it diminishes the experiences of actual victims of violence.
Every rep who votes for military funding is doing real violence that no language can describe
Shit like this is why AOC will never be president, only people on the coasts think saying mean things is violence.
When people say “the coast” they don’t mean geographically, they mean “THOSE PEOPLE who live near the coast”. Some dude in Hoboken is gonna think this is stupid too.
this tweet is part of a thread which has to do with her passing some small concession out of congress.
literally fuck off. she's one of maybe 4 people who have some loyalty to the working class. we have 429 other spineless scum we can shit on, instead we ahit on her.
she's a serving her second two year term in the lower house of a political system literally designed to make populist reforms as difficult as possible to pass.
...and she's the best "we've" got.
I'm gonna quote Matt Karp's article in the jacobin after Bernie's concession; "The Left, after Bernie, has finally grown just strong enough to know how weak it really is."
I'm sick of political theater(an m4a vote would be just that) and I'm sick of liberal shit like "their your representatives". the only way change can be achieved is through real life organizing of the masses.
I'll pass on using one of the 4 non-ghouls in congress as my outlet for anger/punching bag.
no, holding people accountable isn't liberalism.
expecting one lowly elected official to make a difference is.
I'm just jaded. I'm tired and political theater is a waste of time to me.
look at where america is now and compare it to the ideals of this forum. Is AOC going to achieve those ideals? no, she most definently is a lib and has no desire to. but imagine for a second that she wants to...could she? NO. we have to organize IRL to achieve those ideals. are we on the same page on this?
even when it comes to m4a, it'll take a coalition and class based organization.
the left hardly exists in real life. if it did, would folks like McConnell get elected to represent one of the most impoverished states in the country? his democratic challenger was just another capitalist goon!
I'm not gonna use her as a punching bag for our lack of power is what I'm saying.
Ugh, thank you. Either electoralism matters, in which case maybe write her a letter or primary her if she's upsetting you so much, or it doesn't, in which case none of these issues, especially not how she uses the word "violence", are relevant or worth the stress. We have a lot of other shit to focus on.
This is well said, and you could say the same things about Bernie, ESPECIALLY if he somehow had become president. I'm honestly not even picking sides on "#forceTheVote", I'd obviously love for Pelosi to go either way, concessions or not. I've discussed the issue on here because I am curious about the strategic value of it and I don't have a firm answer.
The one thing I AM actually certain of is that it's illogical to think we can elect a social democrat and bully them on Twitter into being more aggressive. It's a complete disregard for the necessity of needing to build a politically organized working class. It's the ONLY thing that has historically achieved good things like M4A. Jimmy Dore's argument that "I bet they would vote for it actually" is a fucking braindead take, we can all throw it out. Brianha Joy's take is more interesting, that it's worth it to force the vote regardless because even though we can't win, there's a chance that it'll set a stage for public agitation. I somewhat lean toward this take because yeah, let's hold Pelosi hostage, even if the eventual win is purely symbolic. But I think what's insanely overstated is the effect that this would have in "creating a moment" for a "general strike" or "protests in the street". Idk, as you can tell I'm a bit torn on the subject, but I think it's important to note that this moment is just not all that consequential considering the disjointed power we have on the left.
I think Ben Burgis put it well in calling it "voluntarism" - the idea that a small portion of upper class hyper online people led by podcasts hosts can do it. That the reason we don't have M4A is because the 4 people we critically support in congress just don't WANT it badly enough.
At least it's a very log-offy moment for me lol
thanks. I'm torn on the issue as well, and I agree with you that BJG's case for it is the most persuasive I've heard.
Where I draw the line is at turning on one of the few politicians who are vaguely on our side.
this entire notion of a vote galvanizing people, and an AOC floor speech changing hearts and minds; it reminds me of Chapo's criticisms of the west wing...its literally a daydream born out of naive electoralism. it has no regard for how little power the left has.
Idk. With everything I said against forceTheVote, I still think electoral politics is where the energy & focus is at right now. We desperately need ways to politicize the worker's movement, I do think the real work that needs to be done is in unionization votes & worker agitation. I would have loved for this energy to be put behind like idk, a mass IWW drive or something, but it's not like I drive these conversations. But maybe this whole force the vote thing is better than nothing. If focusing on forceTheVote pulls energy from worker's organizing, then yes, it should be avoided - but is it really? Isn't it like "do we hold Pelosi hostage, or do we not?" Are we really losing any political capital by Twitter people shitting on AOC?
It sucks, my analysis is so tainted by just agreeing with various podcasters who talk good. And I know it sounds technocratic but I am tempted to defer to DSA, considering they've been pretty instrumental in pushing M4A to the forefront, and because they're the closest thing to a large left party (even if I've disagreed with a lot of its strategy in the past). But I still don't know that I've heard a proper argument against forcing the vote. Lots of anti-forceTheVote shit is "this isn't how it works" which is what I said in my previous comment, and still agree with - but I'm also just not sure what the downsides are to this type of high-level political agitation. Like will AOC lose any support over this? I doubt that.
As you can see I cannot log off.
:geordi-no: changing how the government works but saying some lib shit about people being dicks to you
:geordi-yes: whining about the lib shit while ignoring the change to how the government works
I have the biggest brain
Fuck, AOC is bad again now I have to go back and edit all my posts
I provide a paid service to edit posts based on which way the wind blows regarding AOC each day. Innovation under capitalism.
Can't wait to hear about the startup this idea will spawn on a future trashfuture episode
Such an obvious fucking grift, tone policing voters who want her to use her power.
As I've had to repeatedly point out, Dore lied about her vote on the CARES act and talked about "destroying" her and taking credit for her success. I would not be terribly surprised if she got some targeted harassment from that, based on shit that wasn't even true, over a vote that everyone acknowledges won't even fucking do anything besides be some sort of "theatre" that would be used against democrats who already happily state their refusal to back M4A, like Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, the latter of which was a fucking cosponsor.
https://twitter.com/themattdimitri/status/1339478371214917632
That's not a good way to respond to someone not kissing your feet because they thought your idea didn't actually do anything and a twitter shitstorm not rooted in anything besides a grifter comedian with a Youtube show being mad at you is not meaningfully a strong enough """movement""" to "hold someone to account" or really do anything of worth besides extremely online bullshit.
AOC: "Words can be violent"
This site I guess: "REEEEEE AOC IS A SJW CUCK"
