Seriously...as a parent I feel like I'm constantly stressed out on finding the right words and approaches to reinforce the right things but sometimes articles from "the experts":
https://archive.is/yP0yu
Just make me seethe with contempt for how out of touch and frankly awful some parenting gurus are.
Its not all bad to be fair. I agree with number 2 and teaching kids how to recognize their own emotions and think empathetically but then there's shit like number 3:
Furthermore, complaining about your job around your kids teaches them that work isn’t fun. As a result, they may grow up believing that adulthood is about spending half of your waking hours in complete misery.
Oh, well we can't have that can we? Oh no junior, I swear daddy definitely loves clocking in at 6am and answering emails and crunching numbers rather then going outside to play basketball with you or build that new lego set. What, you're grown up now and you hate your job and the way it makes you feel incredibly alienated in a way you never could have imagined? You just need to work on your attitude! Fuck that noise!
Even number 4, which I agree is good in practice, is arrived at for the wrong reasons. Its not about teaching kids some nonsense about being the sole arbiter and decision maker in charge of your life. Its about reinforcing the responsibilities and obligations you have to one another, whether that's doing work or going to help grandma get some things down from the attic, or getting groceries for the week at the store.
In a few years I genuinely hope we evolve to the point of realizing that teaching our children neoliberal mindset is its own form of abuse.
Whenever you say that you have to do something, whether it’s running an errand or going to dinner at Grandma’s house, you imply that you’re being forced to do things you don’t want to do. Instead, show your kids that you’re in control of your own time: It’s up to you to decide what you’re going to do, as well as when and how you’re going to do it.
I swear bro, capitalism totally isn't coercive bro, trust me bro.
Instead, lie to your kids and pretend you’re in control of your own time: Make it seem as if it’s up to you to decide what you’re going to do, as well as when and how you’re going to do it.
Class oppression is just a negative mindset, sweaty. Don’t think of it as being exploited, think of it as being insploited, makes all the difference
I looked up some other stuff this contributor has written (because I apparently hate read articles to wake up in the morning) and this bit was just fucking gold:
Saying things like “we can’t afford new shoes like the other kids because we come from a poor background” reinforces to your child that most of life’s circumstances are out of their control. Kids who recognize their choices in life feel more confident in their ability to create a better future for themselves. Rather than allowing your kids to host pity parties or exaggerate their misfortunes, encourage them to take positive action (e.g., setting up a lemonade stand so they can save up to buy things they want or need). Kids who recognize their choices in life feel more confident in their ability to create a better future for themselves.
(e.g., setting up a lemonade stand so they can save up to buy things they want or need)
What the fuck is it with Americans and fucking lemonade stands?! :agony-minion:
Its an exercise to teach kids not to ask mommy/daddy for money because it doesn’t grow on trees and you’ll never save enough of your own because you are a kid with no market value.
In fact even when its represented fictionally I feel like that's usually how its framed also. Like: it could be a made up memory but I swear there's an episode of the Simpsons where Bart opens a lemonade stand to raise money for a game/comic or something and manages to make like $1.25 for the entire day and then Lisa adds insult to injury that the cost of a bag of lemons is actually $2.00 which actually puts him in the red.
Like eventually they wind up raising money for the thing somehow but even in generally pro capitalist fiction the moral of the lemonade stand trope is essentially that earning money is actually really really really goddamn hard. Like way harder then you imagine as a kid. The idea of it being a practical application for kids to actually earn some spending money is just delusional nonsense.
It's just like the Myth of Barter or McCardle's drug prices article, bourgeoise economics is basically pseudoscience, so as soon as you want to explain it, out come the childish metaphors "imagine you have a lemonade stand with two cows and its national roast leg of lamb day" or whatever
It has to be. Like, the stereotypical lemonade stand story happens in the suburbs. Where there are like 5 houses near you, and everyone else drives everywhere. Even if all through-traffic actually stopped to buy a lemonade, how many sales would that be in an afternoon of work?
“we can’t afford new shoes like the other kids because we come from a poor background”
Definitely a thing that real poor people say to their children on the reg, and not something that this prejudiced piece of shit author made up.
this is fascinating- absolutely tone deaf and factually bad mental health advice. It is GOOD to tech children that there are things outside their control and things within their control- by teaching them about their locus of control you teach them how to identify if there is something they can do regarding a situation or if there is not- which in turn can prevent them from maladaptive coping techniques. Moreover, the value in learning about ones locus of control is in recognizing that almost everything in life is actually outside of your control, one of the only things you have control over is your actions and attitudes.
But like for real, that's exactly what it is. Its one thing to teach your children to take out the trash, and another to teach them that they should actually really enjoy taking out the trash and brainwashing them into thinking they're doing it because they're choosing to do it and not because its on their list of chores and there are consequences if the work isn't done. Its fucking gross.
I go to work for 40 hours a week and I don't get the rota until the week before.
How can you ever believe this? Even ignoring work, if I don't go to the store I will literally starve to death. I have to buy stuff. I'm not eating for fun.
Jesus Christ.
OK. So normally, while I agree with most people's take on the lib media bullshit, I find most HexBaron's reactions to be hyperbolic.
But holy shit, fuck this article. As a dad, with kids, I'm totally outraged someone had the nerve to publish this. My dad never took me to Disney World for a vacation. Fuck no. We were beyond poor. And that's this capitalistic system the world over. Like, most families cannot afford to ever go to Disney World; no amount of budgeting can fix that. Most families who do go to DW only ever go once (maybe twice tops) while the kids are living in the house. The baseline for a 4 person family to go to Disney is 5k. That's the starting point.
This article only gets worse from there. Lie to your kid about your job! lol you fuckinkiddingme? If work was fun rich people would steal that from us too. Even if you like your job, there is way more shit you'd rather be doing unless you hate your kids.
I find most HexBaron’s reactions to be hyperbolic
Listen jack, teach your kids whatever dumb shit hexbear says
Fellow parent here. This makes me want to write an article called "How To Brainwash Your Kids Into Little Communists."
I remember back when I was more of a lib, I was definitely worried that my kids weren't going to "make it" because as a petite bourgeois I could sense quite easily that the world ten or twenty years from now is going to be a lot worse than it is today. These lib parenting articles are one result of that anxiety, I think. If we aren't part of the 1% in the Global North, we have to do absolutely everything perfectly in order to make sure that our kids have a shot of living decent lives...as the running dogs of the capitalists.
I remember being into the growth mindset. Don't say: "you're good at this," say: "you practiced really hard," etc., etc. Show that you can change yourself if you work hard enough. This kind of stuff was even posted around my kids' elementary school and is probably still there. It's not really that different from the liberal mentality floating around in the air when I was a kid, it's just kind of more codified, I guess. I actually don't totally disagree with it, I just think it's absurd to expect people who are being crushed by capitalism to do anything except survive (and even them, so many people don't make it no matter what they do). People who are into the growth mindset or similar meritocratic ideas seem to believe that everyone is just a monad floating in a vacuum, and that our connections to one another are mediated exclusively by the free market. There is no history, there are no material circumstances. Everyone everywhere starts life in exactly the same place, and if you can't make it, then it's because you're lazy, or you just haven't been given the right opportunity. Liberalism / fascism being exactly the same exhibit one zillion and three.
c/parenting when.
I definitely feel this, but I think abandoning the growth mindset completely is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. A lot of those think pieces took legitimate science and turned it into catch phrases. Having your kid see themselves as malleable and to challenge frustration with mor effort isn’t a bad thing. That said, I know it’s hard to teach that without playing into all this Protestant work ethic bullshit
So much this. I know for a fact my son is going to have hardships I didn't and less opportunities then I did when he comes of age. Urgh...I don't know how active c/parenting would be but I find myself often threading the needle between making sure he has the best opportunities within this system while also trying to remind myself its all fucking bullshit anyway and I don't want him to think life is all competition and hustling for success, and I'd love to get views from fellow travelers trying to navigate hellworld also.
I feel like... We should just talk to kids like they're normal human beings? With age appropriate language and yada yada, but still, you don't need to use psychological Jedi mind tricks to help them become good people.
Try to explain to them how the world works the best you can, provide them as much attention and a stable healthy environment as you can, and the rest is out of our hands
In my experience that's definitely the approach I keep going back to. Like...I'm not one of those people who wants to be a wet blanket on all the magic and I still support santa clause and the tooth fairy but honestly you can be pretty real when you're connecting with your kids and explaining things to them. They're actually really logical...but they usually lack the language to put everything in context. I guess a big part of the problem though is how many fucking adults in the western world especially are in outright denial about their own feelings/emotions and sense of obligations.
Believing in Santa is dope as a kid. But yeah, if a parent is able to be self-honest , it's gonna be almost impossible to connect with with their children.
That said I'm not a parent. Maybe the best approach is putting on the wiggles all day idk
Maybe the best approach is putting on the wiggles all day idk
Big Wiggle shill out here smdh
I guess a big part of the problem though is how many fucking adults in the western world especially are in outright denial about their own feelings/emotions and sense of obligations.
Yes yes yes. Parents use their kids as a crutch to avoid dealing with their own trauma and that’s where so much intergenerational trauma comes from
You have to thread the needle though. I tried treating my kids like I would treat anyone else (obviously, anyone that I liked and with age appropriate language like you said). It wasn’t until I went to counseling that I realized that a lot of the shit that I thought was condescending to do to children, they actually really got a lot out of. My issue was that my parents we’re terrified of me growing up so they treated me like a little kid for way too long, but despite that they were really stingy on praise because they were just super busy and by the time they got home they were exhausted and wanted to veg out in front of the tv for a while.
So I was repeating that with my kids and now I have to manually relearn basic skills for making my kid feel like they’re getting enough attention and that the good things they do are actually good. I was explaining when they were bad because that’s what you do with an adult who fucked up. But kids thrive on attention and will start to play dumb and act out more to get you to waste more time explaining so that you forget about following through on consequences. The ADHD brain is real.
Also, I initially was very candid with my kid about problems in my life. And eventually I ran into them being constantly stressed out to the point of not being able to function. Kids just can’t handle the amount of stress hat we do.
To an extent, it is indeed the job of parents to shield their kids from their own trauma and to let them get used to the world in small steps. And it’s also part of that job to cater to them (what I would have called manipulation before this). I understand a lot of people here have struggled with narcissistic parents and have put a lot of effort into not replicating those behaviors, so I wanna say I’m not encouraging abuse. Just doing my best to point out that it’s possible for the pendulum to swing in the other direction and for it to become neglect
But kids thrive on attention and will start to play dumb and act out more to get you to waste more time explaining so that you forget about following through on consequences.
This is incredibly true. To highlight: my son played dumb in kindergarten for the longest time and the teacher was getting a bit concerned at his reading progress. I thought we were doing fine but he did one 1 on 1 session and the teacher called me to tell that he actually needed to get moved to the advanced reading group and, she suspected, was playing dumb to get more attention from her. I noticed the same thing where he will often 'forget' words/letters during bed time reading because he wants me to read in the voices. Eventually I started just reading the stories to him at bed time again and having him practice reading in other times.
This is the constant issue and stressor with parenting though. Its not only ok indulge and cater/shelter to your children.....its necessary
It’s a weird balancing act. I guess you could call it dialectical. I’m definitely of the opinion that raising children is one of the few inherent and justified hierarchies in life. So it’s a parents’ job to undermine their own authority as it becomes appropriate
Parents that just view themselves as authorities for authority’s sake are insufferable
Like as a teacher I generally won't get negative in front of my students, but that's not because I'm trying to manipulate them into some bourgeoisie mindset of "Positive thinking will let me achieve anything!", it's because that's a weird thing for a teachers to do and doesn't fit the environment.
Also, indoctrinating students with Marxism always makes me feel positive.
But if I had a kid, I'd think it's fine for them to see that I'm not always a positive go-getter, and sometimes I get negative as well. I wouldn't put my burdons onto them, of course, but showing them how I deal with life seems like a good idea.
Good rule of thumb: teach your child to recognize what is and isn’t in their control. They will learn and apply coping techniques accordingly. If you can’t control something, you temper your emotions to make it bearable. If you can control something, you temper your emotions to make it possible to exert that control.
And then you have them participate in collective action. Show the that most of the things that are out of our control as individuals are in our control as a group. Fuck all this shit about “working together” being good for morale or whatever. No, working together is the means by which we control our lives when we otherwise couldn’t.
Furthermore, complaining about your job around your kids teaches them that work isn’t fun. As a result, they may grow up believing that adulthood is about spending half of your waking hours in complete misery.
They don't have to talk about it, I understood this at a young age because they were always tired, stressed, and upset which led to them being very neglectful. Didn't help that everyone claimed school was better than work when school was already hours of drudgery. Before I was 10 I already had a vague understanding that work was awful without anyone outright saying it, now my understanding isn't so vague.
For real.
Random boomer : Enjoy it, these are the best days of your life!Me, depressed for the last 5 years: :doomjak:
Tell them that life is hard and they need to be harder.
Put out little targets of jeff bezos face for them to shoot.
You can trick your mind to tolerate pretty much anything with the right mindset. That doesn't mean you should.
Reading stuff likes this convinces me more and more liberal parents are fucking psychotic, doubly so for trying to impress their bougeoise psychosis on their own children.
Which is why I prefer trying to use native American parenting skills over this bullshit.
One of my favorite somewhat more understated bits of parody in Disco Elysium centered around this idea, with the bookstore owner with the completely commodified relationship with her child, complete with hyper-marketized buzzwords and literally praying to the free market
I LOVE IT. I don't know how I feel about telling them about sea monsters but I've always been hugely anti corporal punishment and with the pandemic I did a lot of self reflection and realized how counterproductive I feel yelling is. I like the articles point that yelling at your kids is essentially going down to their level and teaching them so many of the wrong lessons. Children will emulate the behaviors they see in front of them. I'm still a WIP and don't always practice what I preach but its had a really really positive impact on my entire parenting style and my son's behavior in refusing to yell and catching my own emotions.
Yeah, its funny because I really like theory that storytelling was an essential component of how humans evolved to work with larger and larger civilizations.....but while it might just be my logic/skeptic bruh from my tweenage years rearing its ugly....I just kinda have this inherent instinctive dislike of basing ours and our children's actions and behaviors on made up bullshit. I feel like that's how you wind up reinforcing bad shit like patriarchal gender roles also.
Telling stories is great...just...maybe stay closer to truth then ficition.
Amy Morin is a psychotherapist and instructor at Northeastern University. She is the author of the national best-seller “13 Things Mentally Strong People Don’t Do″ and “13 Things Mentally Strong Women Don’t Do.” In 2015, Amy was named the “self-help guru of the moment” by The Guardian.
:cowboy-cri:
13 Things Mentally Strong People Don’t Do
13 Things Mentally Strong Women Don’t Do
self-help guru of the moment
:jordan-eboy-peterson:
Absolutely. Mark Fischer's take in capitalist realism has always struck a chord with me because when you spend two seconds thinking about it why is it so surprising that so many people are suffering from depression and anxiety when you have so much political, economic, and ecological uncertainty? I'm actually seeking a therapist/counselor at the moment and this is something very much on my mind. I know I definitely have personal shit I could stand to unpack and work on to improve certain unhealthy behaviors divorced from external forces, but in a post covid world I hope we can stop pretending that people who think their boss is out to get them is just negative thinking and paranoia.
the last one is insane.. don't ever tell your kids "everything will be okay" that's some liberal coddling
Her reasoning is incredibly revealing also! At first it seems contradictory to her previous rules because if you're not supposed to say that to prepare them for the fact that life isn't disney fairytell bullshit and that there are always stumbling blocks then why the fuck are you sugar coating work and discussions on adult responsibilities!?!?!?
But then rereading it I realized: you're not supposed to say "everything will be ok" because that gives them a complacent mindset. They gotta learn to work harder and hustle!!!
That’s horrifying. I’ve heard a similar rule about just being honest with your feelings. Like you’re going to be hurt in front of your kids and you’re going to cry in front of your kids a couple times. It’s fine to admit that you’re hurt. I think it’s also okay to comfort your kids sometimes even when you’re unsure. But that’s just teaching them basic coping skills. How do these people everything into absolute rules for the sake of raising complacent workers
Their reasoning is stupid as hell, but the actual idea of not saying that to your kids is not the worst idea.
Like, when someone is upset about something, saying "everything will be ok" invalidates what they're feeling- in a "who cares what you're feeling, this is not going to matter long term so shut up" kind of way. Plus, for a lot of things you simply can't guarantee that everything will be ok (though, I mean, kids do frequently cry about things that absolutely will get better, that part does not apply to every situation). A better approach is to directly talk about what upset them. And FWIW, I'm not a therapist but I work in an adjacent field and have some therapy training, and those kinds of phrases were things we were taught to avoid in therapy.
Yeah, for sure. There's definitely moments when "Everything will be ok" can come across as invalidating or insensitive, and not an appropriate comment. The idea that you should never tell your kid that though....fuck that nonsense.
Number 2 is good advice, probably all the more frustrating since you know it's there to launder the other shit advice lmao
Wait what the whole time I unironically thought it was a listacle of what to make clear to your kids lmaoooo I'm a dumbass
