https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/7312229?scrollToComments=true
There's a person from the solar punk lemmy posting in there about how the american flag stands for freedom and equality for all and I can't help but cringe at how much they're not living up to the "punk" part with their bullshit nationalism lmao
An aesthetic that developed from rebellion against unjust hierarchies in society. Art doesn't exist in a vacuum.
No but like, using "-punk" as a suffix denotes an aesthetic that is based on imagining a society built around a core aspect, generally an energy source. Like, steampunk is all cooper and big buttons, dieselpunk is all dark steel and plastics, and solarpunk is contemporary utopian urban design with a lot of green space
The relationship to the anarchist punk movement
is almost nonexistentremoteIf I'm not mistaken btw
Edit : it comes from "cyberpunk" which definitely has punk vibes
dieselpunk is all dark steel and plastics,
I had never heard of this and now all I can think is who the hell conceived of a world even more dependent on petrol. Why bother, just go outside and take pictures.
Dieselpunk is literally a fascist aesthetic derived primarily from the third reich. Like the primary examples of dieselpunk art are the more recent Wolfenstein games. It's literally just fascist tank worship.
Like the primary examples of dieselpunk art are the more recent Wolfenstein games
I enjoyed the ones I've played so far, but have some real mixed feelings on the setting. In a vacuum there's nothing wrong with an alt-history world like that, but since it isnt in a vacuum, i hate how it buys into and therefore promotes the idea of Nazi scientific superiority and "superweapons" and over inflated sense of the wehrmachts power. It also completely erases the Soviet Union obviously. I don't remember but it probably puts forth human wave theory as why they lost
The second game also has cool Communists and Black Panthers in it which made gamers big mad.
Grace is cool as hell and she got more hate than the actual nazis or the abusive father figure. Stay mad
gamersActually saw some real
brained people saying "yeah B.J.'s father is terrible, but it turned B.J. into the ultimate Nazi killer so that's good." The gamers have never been alright but damn
Oh hell yeah it is! I just played The Old Blood so this minor gripe was fresh on my mind.
If I recall correctly, the soviet government surrendered after getting nuked
It's on a newspaper snippet in the HQ in the first game
Oh cool, that's a way better way to write that happening. Glad to be wrong on that. It's been a while since I played The New Order
Wehraboos. Nearly all of dieselpunk works i seen is glorification of either straight up nazism, or the american roots of nazism or the postapo evolution of nazism.
There's also whalepunk, which is based on Victorian pre-petrol aesthetics. The Dishonored games, for instance.
Most of those are just derivatives of "cyberpunk", which is very much connected to the anarchist association of punk because it's about the cyber-lumpenproletariat and such
Oh yes of course, that's the piece I was missing thanks for pointing it out
Yeah, it got its start that way, but at the end of the day, if you picked out 5 self-described punks, you're liable to get a bunch of really disjointed political beliefs
The punk scene has been divorced from its origins and is mainly just set dressing for a kind of aimless, plaintive rebellion
Not to say that there aren't any punks out there who aren't cool, just that like a lot of other movements its been reduced to a commodity
The point I'm trying to make is that you can't completely disassociate art from the material conditions that created it. I was having a conversation about this with someone else earlier today when we made the observation that He-Man is basically western Sailor Moon, complete with queer identities, similar criticisms of society and even does transformations similarly.
They more or less independently ended up at the same thing, in the same time period, because the conditions in which they were created produced very similar outcomes. Both of them became gay cult icons to their audiences.
You can't divorce art from the conditions that creates it. We could take the entire aesthetic from either of these shows and port it, then try to remove as much ideology as possible from it to transform it into something else... But the key element grounding the art can't be removed or you ultimately remove its identity, you turn it into an entirely different "aesthetic". The gay elements and style are a core part of the dna for these shows, a rebellion component that criticises the conditions in society at the time of their creation. They physically can't be removed from these shows without transforming the aesthetic feel of them too far for everyone to feel they're comparable or correct evolutions of the original art.
The suffix -punk usage attempts to do this, but ultimately it continues to maintain a very small and un-removeable element of its core leftist DNA criticising society because it simply can't be entirely removed without transforming it into something nobody would call -punk anymore. They'd call it SolarFascism or some shit I don't know. Either way it would look transformatively different to Solar-punk in a way that people would no longer want to describe it as such.
I have certainly seen a lot of punk media with the American flag in it
The correct amount of American flags is directly correlated to the amount of those flags getting burned or pissed on
An aesthetic under capitalism is like a culturally distributed type of brand. Punk used to have more common and distinct cultural signifiers, but capitalism forces us to abandon those in favor of aesthetic ones. Aesthetics are easy to recognize, to sell, and to consume. So that’s what survives. This doesn’t change anything about the history of punk and what it used to mean to be punk. It also has a queer history as well as a leftist one.
There is still plenty of DIY underground punk mostly done by leftists and there's a worldwide network of bands, traveling kids, people operating venues or community centre's etc. It's just really underground and inaccessible. Pink belongs to the punks. It still exists, you just aren't necessarily part of it.
Yeah, I had a folk punk musician crash on my couch after a show at one point but that’s about it.
There's a person from the solar punk lemmy posting in there about how the american flag stands for freedom and equality for all
and I can't help but cringe at how much they're not living up to the "punk" part with their bullshit nationalism lmao
You don't even need to leave the conventional AmLit canon to make a joke of that many times over. I know that you know this, of course, but other people sometimes benefit from these references being posted.
Whatever you can say about cyberpunk, for a good chunk af time before becoming mainstream it does advocated for the leftist ideas. While steampunk was always just a bling over XIX century colonialism advocacy brought back from the anus of history to the forefront of internet.
Most compound words with punk as the suffix are super duper not punk. If it's two separate words it's probably not poser or nerd shit. Thisbinclude cyberpunk.
This is what my brain now defaults to when hearing "Solarpunk"
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This is exactly what I was getting at in this comment when I say that too much of the root dna of "punk" has been removed such that it becomes transformatively different to the point that the -punk suffix no longer applies.
Holy shit this is amazing :data-laughing:
Where'd you get this from?
The yakub makes me think it could be a slammer meme or someone in that JDPON meme sphere
Edit: it’s got the hitler particles that surround the microscopes in the top right, 100% made by a JDPON meme person
if you're a genre movement first and foremost being a -punk is cringe. -punk in music is alright more often
Well sweaty have you considered that we NEED to use right-wing symbology to own the TANKIES???
We have that guy but not with those words, I forget what the words for it are
Weird how they banned all explicitly left wing trans people from their trans space, and went out of their way to protect chasers at the expense of trans people and now suddenly their instance is a right wing cesspit. What a crazy coincidence that is.
The creator of the flag was not only a slaveowner but also owned a port where an estimated 100,000 slaves were brought in from Africa.
Ron Paul was a mistake, leading to the creation of Ron Swanson introducing libertarianism to millennials.
I don't know what's worse, the ham radio Ayn Rand libertarians from the 70s or the Ron Paul gold standard meme libertarians from 2008
I briefly lived in a student co-op, and the best house meeting we had was when we got to kick out this guy who disappeared and left everyone else to cover his shifts. He turned back up after two months and it turned out he had been in another city campaigning for Ron Paul. He somehow felt like this was a good reason to not get kicked out
I was at the original Occupy Wall Street back in 2011, and there was a really large number of Ron Paul guys hanging around. For one brief shining moment, it looked like they might set aside all their bullshit and actually focus on taking down the oligarchy. It didn't last, but I remember both how strange and hopeful it was. Alas.
A bunch of libertarians refusing to pull their weight over ideological bullshit? Real Atlas Shrugged moment.
I thought they wanted to keep politics out of there
Thirty minutes from now: "why do all these freedom-loving libertarians want me dead?"
Fifty minutes from now: "why are they all asking if I'm under 18 in my dms?"
But if you do moderation and curation on a web forum, that’s a violation of free speech. And people who infringe on free speech clearly cannot be truly trans. Freedom is what the Burgerland ruling class deems it to be. This is how we defeat cisheteropatriarchy.
Those damn tankies are holodomering muh free speach
Wait so did this person ever say that they were trans, they were asked and dodged the question
I actually am very interested to know because ideology can inhibit LGBT community outreach (re: make people shut-ins because they don't like other trans people because of what they've been told) and it's useful to me to understand how these kinds of trans people think so I can make ones nearby touch grass
Trawled their(her? Not listed) profile: seems like a pretransition egg that browses /TTTT/. usually when these people transition and are discriminated against, they come to the irl trans community for solutions (doctors lists, survival tips, free therapy) and slowly build class consciousness as bad experiences accumulate and information is shared (along with hugs) face to face.
They will eventually realize at this stage the only people that tangibly helped them were socialists and become more amicable towards socialist ideas. I've seen it happen a lot, it's not guaranteed obviously and the archetype varies country to country and by ethnicity but that's the vibe I'm getting.
The mods deleted the post
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So now I've got this guy in my DMs instead
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My favourite(?) thing about Americans like this is they think that insulting the United States Of America is a sinful act and no one would every want to do it. They legitimately don't understand how little the rest of the world (and a lot of their fellow "Americans") like them.
What is bahaj? I think I've seen some of them post in here before but don't know what their instance is about.
Anti-communist Vaushite chaser instance spun off from r/196. We were federated with them for a minute until we realized how intolerable they were.
Well, it started as a small kind of libby trans friendly space on Lemmy for just a handful of users that was a spin off of the blahaj.zone misskey instance on fedi (mastodon basically) but because of the Reddit stuff it swelled in size and then r/196 asked if they could migrate to it and suddenly the entire culture of the instance was up ended by chaser vaushites.
also it's become the 1 token trans friend for all the Lemmitors that agrees with their shitty opinions because they can't bear to acknowledge that the instance with the most trans users on is hexbear
they can’t bear to acknowledge that the instance with the most trans users on is hexbear
They cope and seath sooo fucking much about it, the number of these losers I have seen implying that the trans on hexbear and lemmigrad were fake in some way, troll or bots.
i remember how one of them made a post about how anxious they get when someone shows up with pronouns next to their name because those hexbears are so meeeeann
just
perspective honestlyThe gender police is here to beat you until you give up your pronouns
Your pronouns, your thigh-highs and your bicycle, give them to me.
Haha I remember being a lib and feeling that pit in my stomach when I'd see a communist viewpoint, because they always seemed to know more. Like that quote goes, it's the fear that in order to understand it, your whole life would have to change. It's no wonder we were taught to regard communist theory as some kind of cognitohazard or moral contagion: the liberal haze of contradictory propaganda, managed by a focusing and refocusing of emphasis and lenses, must hide it's solid core, because it's solid core is just white supremacy. So what you're left with is this mostly, by mass, this hypocritical ball of nonsense gas, and it's the easiest thing in the world for a materialist explanation of the world to cut through it.
the misskey instance was pretty anticommunist before the reddit migration too, so they were ripe for it
So it's NATO leftist central. I'm starting to realize why every one of them posting here was insufferable as hell.
Just for a little clarification.. Blahaj is also the name of the shark plushie at IKEA that has become sort of a symbol of trans support. That predates the cringe lemmy instance you're talking about (which I had never even heard of until today, but the shark thing has been a phenomenon for years)
Yikes. This is literally no different than a rainbow swastika or something equally tone deaf.
