astrology still isnt real tho
also had some lesbians at our lgbt group refuse to talk to me because i was a capricorn or something. legit dont even know my sign, i thought they were just asking my birthday to be nice to me
i was like 'bruh do we really need new reasons to discriminate against people'
Yeah it's easy to take things like Astrology or MBTI or tarot cards or palm readings or whatever as just fun things but there's a pretty major issue when people take it seriously. Just like with religion, normal more passive believers are fine but so called Christian Scientists often literally abuse their children by refusing proper healthcare for them.
Once it gets past just fun little games, these things can get dark really fast. A person who skips out on medicine for homeopathic remedies or "herbs", a person who discriminates or hurts someone because the tarot cards said they were bad luck, when grieving widows and parents are taken advantage of by "psychics", this shit becomes a really major issue.
Pseudoscience when taken seriously legitimately hurts people.
Yeah it's just fun.
:meow-coffee:
had some lesbians at our lgbt group refuse to talk to me because i was a capricorn or something
Lmao This is the chick version of a dude not talking to someone because they're a fan of another sports team.
its really weird because like... i organize all of our events. its REALLY WEIRD to not talk to me but still always show up to the stuff i organize?? like sometimes it feels like transphobia or some shit to me, like they wanna discriminate but dont wanna look like shit? idfk truly bizarre
Are we sure they weren't teasing you? This has "daria trolling people" energy.
Well yeah, of course. insecure people who passive aggressively bully others are annoying.
Think of it as being more like a guy who constantly roasts other guys. There's a certain type of chick that tries to connect with other girls that way.
I DONT KNOW
like they havent talked to me for years despite me seeing them all the time
its really bizarre. like clearly im not so repellant for them to show up to all the events i organize? people confuse me :ohnoes:
Babe, that's 100% a "them" problem. Sounds like they're insecure and doing the sarcastic detached girl thing. If they're showing up to your parties, then they like you.
:meow-hug:
ikr lmao. ive not really dated lesbians much because so many are really weird astrology people. add to that that im trans and the weird gold star clique transphobia and i just end up dating straight guys most the time :shrug-outta-hecks: though ive had some fun experiences with other women, just sad that im straight down the middle bi but reality doesnt turn out that way
cw
spoiler
legit first time i went to a gay bar i was groped nonconsensually by a lesbian and she grabbed my crotch and was like 'lol nope nvm' like jesus christ i hate some people. so i dont go to gay bars anymore, at least not without some strong ass mfer with me that will bash the shit out of people if they fuck with me
but yeah that happened to me like at least a dozen times at my lgbt groups. some girl comes on to me and then the weird astrology shit comes out then they get disinterested
yeah the gay bar i went to has a 'women get one shot free' rule in an attempt to attract the lesbians
My fave meme ever is a banner of Kirby saying "yes I'm queer, yes I know nothing about astrology, we exist"
I'm a triple Scorpio, so I'm super glad I'm not dating in this day and age.
i'm only a double scorpio and not dating is excruciating
Astrology is a gateway drug to Psychics, which leads to Crystals, which leads to new ager shit, which leads to antivaxx and antisemitism and esoteric nazism.
Just say no to woo.
Astrology is a gateway drug to Psychics, which leads to Crystals, which leads to new ager shit, which leads to antivaxx and antisemitism and esoteric nazism.
Just say no to woo.
"Astrology is a pipeline to nazism" is such a trash take lol
This isn't a Flintstones reference at all, your bit doesn't work if you don't stick to the theme.
Weak take. Astrology for 99% of people is just an interesting thing you can talk about with someone without risking offending them. Antivax/antisemitism are separate phenomena.
Thank you. It's literally the same as talking about ghosts or whatever the fuck. Major insecure :reddit-logo: guy moment.
I would ask for people to not act like I'm weird or a spoilsport for not believing in either. I don't believe in supernatural shit and really don't have anything to discuss about them
Naw, you're good. I'm talking about the type of person who goes out of their way to talk shit about how "horoscopes aren't real" like it's some earth shattering epiphany.
Another way to maybe look at this: Swap out horrorscopes for santa or something. Most people will be like "duh", but it's a fun bit.
Sure. But carrying the Santa metaphor forward, I'd prefer my co-workers not speculate if I'm on his naughty or nice list.
I don't believe in them either, but I do get super annoyed when people get smug about not believe, which is a whole other thing
It shouldn't be taken as default to think Halloween monsters and planet magic is real and I shouldn't be expected to play along
Reaction to astrology super similar to :reddit-logo:'s r/atheism
Yup. "Materialism is when I define my beliefs based on reaction against stupid things that are popular."
Actual materialists understand the dialectics of reaction better than this.
It feels like watching libs and chuds fight and the lib uses bigotry in a cringe-inducing attempt to debunk the chud. Like I have an opinion on the topic at hand, but you're both saying shit I absolutely object to.
My last comment is mostly a throwaway joke to be honest, but please link to anything on the dialectics of reaction you think would be interesting. I’m always up for learning something cool.
Actual materialists understand the dialectics of reaction better than this.
Lmao oof, didn't mean this to be interpreted as pointed at your response.
I was commenting that materialists wouldn't readily adopt the reddit-brained reaction towards astrology because they'd understand the dialectical nature of the reactionary response.
Oooh, okay. No worries!
I was honestly not expecting this much of a reaction to my comment because, well, who cares enough about astrology to actively hate it? That takes so much effort.
That takes so much effort.
I don't think that's necessarily true and underestimates the existing brainworm populations in men.
Imagine being around a bunch of people discussing NFTs, but no one is acknowledging that NFTs are a bunch of property-brained bologne and just continues on as if they're real. And these people are, ironically or not, justifying their value assessments of others based on their "portfolio". For people not into astrology, being forced to risk alienation from the group by expressing disapproval at the premise underlying discussion, this often creates feelings of frustration...which is primer for creating fanatical hatred.
Discussions of astrology often create the same frustrations in me, and I have a relative discontent for the topic at large.
Misogyny is just the brain path of least resistance for many of these people. Backlash to anything perceived to be more enjoyed by women than men will inevitably take on a current of misogyny.
Most dogs don't understand dogwhistles to be a conditioning tool and "things women enjoy" becomes the whistle, raging at women is the "treat". Men very much have to stay on the look out for " is this intended to create feelings of resentment towards women?" because the dogwhistles are harder to detect when detecting them involves no longer being able to use it as a crutch for your bruised ego.
Most dogs don’t understand dogwhistles to be a conditioning tool and “things women enjoy” becomes the whistle, raging at women is the “treat”. Men very much have to stay on the look out for " is this intended to create feelings of resentment towards women?" because the dogwhistles are harder to detect when detecting them involves no longer being able to use it as a crutch for your bruised ego.
You phrased this perfectly. Love the point about misogyny being the brainpath of least resistance.
Thanks! I could go on for days about how men's vulnerability is weaponized for both ideological purposes and profit and laundered through seemingly innocuous means.
Running into a theater and shouting "This didn't even happen!" then running out chuckling to myself
It’s literally the same as talking about ghosts or whatever the fuck
This is infinitely more off-putting than astrology to me.
I feel extremely uncomfortable when people are talking about paranormal/pseudoscientific topics and it's ambiguous whether they actually believe it or not. Like it's to the point where I'd be looking to steer the conversation away from it or consider options for finding other plans. Being expected to go along with it puts my anxiety through the roof.
It's a similar discomfort to how I feel when people go into an anti-communist tirade in my presence. Like I want to say something in opposition, but I fear saying something will turn group consensus against me.
I refuse to be categorized into the reddit dudebro category of people who fetishize their concept of "rationality" because I feel exceptionally off-put by this type of conversation.
Word. woo and magic make me extremely uncomfortable. I don't want to be around people who assert that up is down and 2+2=5. It's the same kind of unsettling feeling as being around Evangelical Christians; There's a fundamental disconnect, a disagreement about reality on it's most basic levels, and it makes conversing with people who believe in woo unsafe. You don't know what topics are safe to discuss or when you have to keep your mouth shut to avoid giving offense.
It's more than just that, it makes people hard to predict in ways that are frustrating. Like, they will make bizzare and extreme decisions because of whatever nonsense they believe, but not very often. Just often enough you can't trust them, not often enough you can figure out the rules.
So it's just a constant source of anxiety, when will the day come that it happens.
That's fair I guess. I personally feed off the energy of being the one guy in a conversation who doesn't believe in ghosts or who is defending the Soviet Union, but with the paranormal I just think that the stakes of believing in it are so low that taking it seriously is just a waste of effort.
I mean, don't get me wrong, if I have a few drinks in me I'll vehemently defend the Soviet Union.
It's a little different when you feel like you're taking a dump on people's religious or pseudo-religious views. I don't want to be put in a position where someone feels belittled by my defense of my opinions.
Like if someone believes in ghosts and says "omg I definitely saw a ghost/my grandma spoke to me in a dream", I'm not gonna tell them they're fabricating reality based on what they want to believe.
Same! My otherwise-reasonable friends, many of who are/were scientists, will start talking about ghosts and seriously asking if I believe in them and trying to come up with any possible explanation for how ghosts could be real and I’m just like… what the fuck are you doing? Why am I being targeted rn for not believing in ghosts?
“I once took a personality quiz on MySpace so that means I’m a Nazi now” is some real big brain shit
Nearly all internet Nazis have taken a personality quiz. Don’t make me break out the Dihydrogen Monoxide facts
You're right, but I also attended a spiritualist church that did trance shit alongside the psychic mumbo and those were some wild experiences I actually recommend people seek out. It was basically hypnotic trance stuff. Very fun to play around with.
Astrology is particularly bad, because a lot of the time it seems to be just dressed-up phrenology. If it's just fortune cookie-tier stuff to you, whatever, you do you.
Also, few things are more annoying in a casual conversation than someone being an asshole and saying "oh no you're just born wrong that's why you don't like me" when you call them out. Astrology is an easy way for people to do that.
And yet, we so often making fun of women is socially constructed ways. Like, yeah, Astrology is bullshit. It is however objectively less bullshit than like, regular religion. But even talking shit about sigma grindset we do it with a level of respect we do not for scorpio season.
I have never had any respect for the sigma grindset people, and I resent any suggestion to the contrary
That's cause you acheived it. Stay on that grind king. Don't let others try to forge your path
Maybe. We can do an experiment. Supose we lost a picture of a dudes rock type image. Like just a guy doing something dumb. Which comment do you think will get more upvotes? "Sigma male" or "he's a capricorn" i think we'd upvote sigma male more just unconsciously biased
Astrology is small beans. The influence of woo peddlers like Jordan Peterson is far more concerning than the influence of astrology. The gender coding of different types of woo utilizes misogyny to draw attention away from the more fucked up shit alienated men are constantly getting into by focusing on stereotypes of women being silly and credulous. Misogyny is 100% the reason people like Jordan Peterson are viewed as intellectuals despite all the bizarre chaos dragon diagrams, while astrology diagrams are viewed as vapid nonsense.
And anyway, astrology as a vibe is cool and fun, as is witchcraft, paganism, crystals, etc. There are some more malicious forms of woo that funnel people into rackets, dangerous alternative medicine practices, or even cults, but that should really be understood as a separate thing. All it really shares with astrology is an aesthetic. Predators often adopt popular aesthetics to draw people in. It's not usually an inherent problem with the aesthetic.
Biological essentialism is bad regardless if it's myerrs-Briggs or astrology. Making blanket statements about someone's personality and encompassing them in one simple term is bad. However, if you use astrology instead to like, see if your luck is gonna be good today more power to ya
I'm still trying to process "Nothing is real" within a materialist understanding of history.
Reality is prescribed, not described. My reality is inherently different from yours - my perception is inherently different. Reality is nebulous and not as inherent as it may seem. What is defined as reality is often described by either a majority or by those in power (manufacturing consent, especially). If you want something more materialist, the catholic churn once dictated reality to much of europe, through political and economic power as well as religious. Catholicism was taught the same way we would teach gravity today. For much of the population, that was reality. We now know better, but someday if there is a future 100 years down, the generations then will look down upon us as primitive and backwards with a fundamental misunderstanding of reality.
Reality is prescribed, not described. My reality is inherently different from yours - my perception is inherently different. Reality is nebulous and not as inherent as it may seem. What is defined as reality is often described by either a majority or by those in power (manufacturing consent, especially).
You can talk about Capitalist Realism as a certain expectation of reality, wherein deviation from that norm creates anxiety in the indoctrinated. But there are certain underlying conditions that are universal and immutable. No amount of ideology will fill my empty belly or shelter me from the elements. No ideology will keep the roof of an Amazon fulfillment center from landing on my head.
All "realism" can establish is my anticipation and reaction to personal experience. Language may shape how I perceive the light striking my eye, but it cannot grant my blind eyes vision nor can it blind me to my current condition. The dissonance that emerges from the contradictions of ideology is the result of subjective and objective reality diverging. It distorts the original manufactured message and produces new ideologies in the struggle to process the gap between expectation and experience.
We now know better, but someday if there is a future 100 years down, the generations then will look down upon us as primitive and backwards with a fundamental misunderstanding of reality.
But there is still some underlying universal experience that connects people a century ago to people from today and people a century hence. We're all experiencing the same reality, abet through different lenses. And while people in the current moment may conceive of their reality as "correct" and the past/future as "distorted", this is due to an accumulation of perception-shaping compounded bias. It isn't due to an absence of material conditions. Just an alternative viewpoint.
Which is like the golden rule of everything. With exceptions, it's okay to like things/people, just don't be fuckin weird about it
Fact. Guys being upset that many women like astrology is, once again, sexist brainworms.
It's cringe and comes from the insecure guy headspace of "this is something women like so I must shit on it to prove I am a man"
Having a strong negative opinion about astrology is like getting pissed that people eat fortune cookies. Most women don't take it that seriously, brad.
Also, I love her twitter handle
Guys being upset that many women like astrology is, once again, sexist brainworms.
Very true that a vast majority of the backlash to it is rooted in misogyny.
Most women don’t take it that seriously, brad.
I definitely believe most people's interaction with astrology is virtually equivalent to fortune cookies, but anecdotally speaking, the people I've met who are very into astrology have told me they've made fairly important life decisions based on it...which scares the shit out of me.
I refuse to judge people who find amusement in it, but true belief in it is certainly anti-materialist and a non-negligible number of people elevate it to a position where I can no longer see it as strictly harmless fun.
The most into-astrology person I met was a 68 yo librarian dude. He was virgo.
I don't know what to make of this information, but I hope the impression was not that I'd be surprised that that person is a dude
Eh if it wasn't astrology it would be something else for that type of person.
Glad we agree that hating astrology is mostly based in misogyny though, pretty surprised by the knee jerk response on this from other users ngl.
Eh if it wasn’t astrology it would be something else for that type of person.
I largely agree, and I think it often fills the spiritual hole left by being pushed away from organized religion and is frequently a more positive alternative.
I do worry because to me it seems to be in the same territory as those "ironic" subreddits birthed for the purpose of mocking hatred then turning into fash cesspools within a short timeframe (obviously not trying to equate astrology with hate, just noticing similar patterns of initial irony drawing in true believers who poison the well)
And definitely noticing more dudebro type reactions here that I thought we'd be a little more mature about.
Bruh
Astrology is dumb and occasionally even harmful.
Yeah, it's kinda stupid. That is part of the fun. It's not anymore harmful than like tarot or a fortune cookie.
The only reason women like it so much is that it has been AGGRESSIVELY marketed to them.
You can say this for literally anything remotely associated with gender in American society.
it’s annoying when everyone you try to date is really into and makes life decisions based on this nonsense
Lmao most women do not make life decisions based on their horrorscope. Bringing it up on a first date is also an easy way to gauge the vibes of a dude. Guess what it says when they care waaay more about horrorscopes then you do?
Bringing it up on a first date is also an easy way to gauge the vibes of a dude.
Uhh this is a huge red flag to me (and not the kind I like). I wouldn't go off on a rant about how I think it's fake bullshit, but I'd definitely be quietly concerned that pseudoscientific things factor into their decision-making if they seem remotely serious about it.
Guess what it says when they care waaay more about horrorscopes then you do?
The person bringing it up almost undoubtedly cares about it more.
I'd say like 50% of my interactions with astrology is "So and so is a fucking b***h/slob/prude/etc...such a typical Virgo" and I have no idea if they're being ironic, but anyone making character assessments on the basis of birth month is pushing me away whether intended or otherwise.
You can say this for literally anything remotely associated with gender in American society.
I agree, this doesn't really refute my point
Lmao most women do not make life decisions based on their horrorscope.
A lot do
Bringing it up on a first date is also an easy way to gauge the vibes of a dude. Guess what it says when they care waaay more about horrorscopes then you do?
Yeah ngl if a dude acts shitty about that then that's a good sign they're not a great guy
I agree, this doesn’t really refute my point
So then what is your point? Who cares why it's popular? That's like saying the only reason men like sports is because of advertising. Who cares? It's something to shoot the shit about.
A lot do
Most women do not use horroscopes for making life decisions. This is sexist and you should drop this opinion.
Yeah ngl if a dude acts shitty about that then that’s a good sign they’re not a great guy
Glad we agree on that.
So then what is your point? Who cares why it’s popular? That’s like saying the only reason men like sports is because of advertising. Who cares? It’s something to shoot the shit about.
Sports were super popular amount men waaayy before advertising. Horoscopes we're popularized in newspapers, so like literally advertising. They're literally capitalism commondifying something in order to profit off it. But i see your point, does understanding it's origin matter? Idk
Most women do not use horroscopes for making life decisions. This is sexist and you should drop this opinion.
I guess this depends what we mean by life decisions but yeah i concede that saying most women use astrology for life decisions is probably a major exaggeration
Guys being upset that many women like astrology is, once again, sexist brainworms.
I'm upset by it but I'm more upset by how many dudes are into race science, and for similar reasons
Historically, horoscopes had been a bit less problematic than racism, don't you think?
They both divide people into inherent immutable categories by birth based on complete nonsense
:yikes-1::yikes-2::yikes-2::yikes-3:
This is an offensively bad opinion and disrespects everyone that has been harmed by racism.
:brak: Do better, ya nerd!
He literally said racism was worse. I did not find it disrespectful. He was 100% correct on the similarities. The comment should not have been removed.
My two favorite things are astrology and pumpkin spice late. Eat me, nerds
Seriously. It's another example of toxic masculinity defining its gender as being the opposite of feminity instead of understanding itself.
"Feelings scary, misogyny easier". 🙄
Basically no one really thinks that. This is exactly what I'm talking about lol
This is what literally every person who is into astrology says. If you don't think it's real why do you give a shit what anyone thinks?
I don't even believe in this silly nonsense but you're a misogynist if you think it's silly nonsense.
I don't believe in anything spiritual/paranormal/whatever, but there's an undercurrent of "iamverysmart" in the reaction to this stuff that's often thinly veiled misogyny from the same people who think which way your cock faces in photos determines social confidence.
Discussion of anything women remotely like in greater proportions than men (or perceived to be) quickly devolves into misogyny.
Honestly the entire modernist worldview is super overrated. “This mode of thinking let us land rockets on the moon therefore we must all think like this in all facets of our lives all the time” like okay dude sometimes I wanna be wrong because a lot of the time when you’re wrong nothing happens so just get over it
Weird take on a website for communists, a mode of understanding grounded in materialism
There’s plenty of post-Marx communist theory that introduces various postmodern and decolonial lenses. Being a communist doesn’t mean we need to throw out the idea of social construction and it definitely doesn’t mean we all need to read Eliezer Yudkowsky or some shit
Yudkowsky is anti-materialist, though. He rejects out of hand the aspects of physics and computer engineering that are inconvenient to his worldview.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't postmodern/decolonial Marxism also operate under principles like "society and culture are products of means and relations of production" and "societal structures are upheld by armed force and the threat of violence"? And if it doesn't, what's Marxist about it?
Yudkowsky is a stand-in here for dogmatic rationalism. I don’t care about specifics of postmodern/de colonial Marxist theory or whatever the fuck (also, that’s a huge field and likely difficult to generalize about). What I’m saying is that, if you wanna get Marxist about it, we have entire aspects of our experience as human beings which do not even make considerations for whether or not something is rational and capitalism routinely alienates us from them or denies our ability to experience them in the first place. Religious thinking is just one aspect of human thinking but there seem to be many Marxists who are content to insist that religion is and always will be an inherent detriment to the revolution. Bottom line is that humans aren’t computers and I shouldn’t have to know about diminishing returns or the basis of meta-optimization in order for that to be a valid assertion
The sexist/terrible takes getting the most upvoted here explain why women's issues are rarely brought up here.
Yeah for real this whole thread is a mess of Um Aktually bullshit
It explains the mediocre response to Britney Spears' situation as well. Which really sucks because I was hoping to catch the abortion supreme court ruling here.
Abortion is so cut and dry I’d be surprised at any awful takes, but I also wasn’t expecting an astrology struggle session so 🤷
True, but I meant it being mentioned when it happens.
there literally wasn't shit on the moon and no reason to go there and we thought there would be because we saw a kubrick movie lmao if that's not magical thinking idk what is
you're right and you should say it. run naked through the office park knock over trash cans make a gaping wound on a security guard's chest with your teeth
