Nah, you're not a lib, a lot of queer people feel like you do. I've hated this election cycle because there's a lot of accelerationist glee that Trump might win again or Biden will lose and Civil War 2.0 blah blah. Honestly the left shouldn't want anything like this because we aren't poised to do well if things collapse, so we should probably root for something less shitty to happen right now.
But then again a lot of these accelerationists happen to be cishet white guys who have no real stakes who imagine themselves being rounded up by government thugs and carried away when the FBI doesn't even know who the fuck they are from 50 other potato-shaped internet nerds. I can't act too shocked about it.
The entire situation is pretty fucked and I don't like it, but on the whole I'd like to not collapse into chaos where I'm hunted for sport so fuck the collapse noise.
I mean like the last time Biden was in the White House the US was literally making the Genocide of Yemeni Houthis possible.
Like...
Biden might not be the end of your world, but he will be the end of the world for many, many people. it might be worse than Obama because they'll need to show "Strength" and "Bolster their presence on the world stage" and "Reclaim America's image" and shit, aka crush dissent and violently re-assert imperial hegemony.
He's topped Obama's drone numbers and exacerbated existing conflicts so I don't know about that.
Yeah, Hillary would definitely have gotten us into a war. I have no clue if Biden's going to. I can't do more than hope there. But Trump is making things a lot more violent in the US at the same token, and that violence is largely being directed at people of color, women, and queer people.
Trump isnt making the systemic violence against minorities in the US any worse. In a very narrow sense, most of that can be blamed on Democrats.
This is literally the argument.
I don't know how I feel on the Trump v Biden thing in all honesty, but c'mon man...
To be fair from a minority perspective, it's a weird debate. Trump has actually repeatedly proposed budget cuts to the police. While Biden has not only previously increased funding but plans to increase current budget. 1994 crime bill, anyone? This is very similar to the bill he fathered, wherein "reform" was promised in the form of higher quality policing and more rehabilitative services. This was agreed upon by black leaders as a good bill, until said rehabilitative services were taken out. For AA communities it seems to be history rhyming.
Personally, I don't think not being a segregationist is a high hurtle to jump.
The thing is that Biden means death to god knows how many people in the middle East, as does Trump.
Biden picked a lady as vp that locked away young men for decades for selling weed.
Biden hasn't made any concrete promises to exploited workers in America.
Biden supports more fracking.
Do you really want to support that?
I mean make no mistake Trump has been hideously ineffectual at a lot of his pointlessly cruel policies, which is good, but he's gotten off a few good victories and they've been fairly painful. Again, insulated champagne socialist motherfuckers.
Yeah, this is one of those cases where he just got bored and forgot to follow through.
The worst one was the supreme Court fiasco IMO, followed by the PPE racketeering scheme.
Arctic National Wildlife Refuge drilling fucking sucks too
I absolutely believe that 2nd term Trump will throw the law and constitution out the window, because he already has.
The hope with Biden losing is that the dems, while still rejecting anything genuinely leftist, will realize that they need to embrace a modicum of social democracy to maintain their incomes.
If they lose they will never do this.
I mean by that token Bernie has had significant influence in crafting the Democrat platform so I dunno what to tell you, but I don't think the Dems are going to think they can go LEFT if they lose.
FDR
a) Had the Soviet Union and giant unions breathing down his neck. b) Had a democratic party that was capable of ideological reform.
We have neither of those things, the shocking thing about this moment is that Capitalism has atomised so much that neither the left, centre, or right are strong enough or can organise enough to reform the social order.
The left is still pretty shattered and the other two have almost exactly the same policy behind the rhetoric and are essentially megacorp spokesfronts for marginally different groupings of Capital. The Imperial core is completely ossified.
tbh fdr was fash lite and knew that black people wouldnt get any of his new deal reforms while jailing japanese people
If you think democrats, even the ones at the top, will learn anything ever and stray away from their ideology, I've got a house to sell you.
The hope with Biden losing is that the dems, while still rejecting anything genuinely leftist, will realize that they need to embrace a modicum of social democracy to maintain their incomes.
This is what the left says after they lose in the primaries every single election. It doesn't work.
idk, there was a saying among a leftist revolutionary (cant remember which one, but it succeeded), but he said it was common for there to be defeatism on the left and that no time was ever the right time for revolution. it was often said even while the revolution was taking place.
I don't really have any reassuring words for you unfortunately.
Biden might be less likely to directly go after trans people and their rights, but he certainly won't put any more effort than Trump into actively protecting them from other attackers either.
Do you think Biden will put me in a cage or a mass grave with all my trans and LGBT friends?
If his donors wanted that then they would back right wing candidates. There’s a lot of liberal support for LGBT people and if Biden is going to genocide them then he’s going to need a really good reason and he’s probably going to lose a lot of support and that could be the thing that pushes a third party to viability.
Most of them are also backing rightwing candidates, to say nothing of the fact that Biden is rightwing
If his donors wanted that then they would back right wing candidates
They do
Well, Obama (With Biden as an accessory) did put immigrants and their kids in cages and camps, so it's not like there's zero precedent.
That’s happening under Trump too and the conditions are probably worst and more people have been targeted. Do you think more genocide is better than genocide?
Look: I wasn't aiming to start an argument with you, I was simply telling you how things'll be if Biden wins. Overall it'll be a little better for trans people, but still nowhere close to "good".
No, but he’ll do that in the Middle East and probably in Venezuela, and the way things are heating up, maybe China.
That stuff will probably happen with either president. Those people have no control over our government while American LGBT comrades are at least on American soil and able to influence our politics in some way. Sacrificing us to save lives abroad which probably won’t be saved anyway is not going to save America from fascism.
You may not be wrong but I like my chances with Biden more than Trump. Liberals at least have to not be overtly acting contrary to the constitution. Conservatives can flaunt constitutional violations with no electoral repercussions.
I mean who am I supposed to prioritize? Trans people in the US? Innocent children in Venezuela and Iran? I'm the safest demo of them all, cishet white men but I'm a Communist whose name would be found if they raided "far left radical" groups. If they open death camps I'm definitely going to be in one too lol. That's honestly not likely though. The Bourgeoisie isn't ready for that. They are however ready to mass murder people in Venezuela or Syria or Iran and even China. It's not exactly a choice in ready to make. And for people to suggest that's because of my cishet privilege when I'm literally part of domestic scapegoat group number one right now is kinda ridiculous. They hate trans people but they literally believe "antifa" is an existential threat. I still don't think they're going to round me up, but I do think they will kill people abroad. And Biden is objectively worse for people abroad.
And Biden is objectively worse for people abroad.
I'd be curious to hear your breakdown as to why this is. With regards to North Korea, as well as fumbling in Venezuela and not invading Iran (when there were ghouls like bolton and pompeo in his administration), he's been better in terms of outcomes in comparison to other Republican administrations. However, there's also the giant increase in drone strikes, the escalation with Iran in the first place (a dem probably would have stuck with the Iran deal), and shitty smaller things like declaring Jerusalem the undivided capital of Israel.
I guess I can see where you're coming from. Trump just does whatever he thinks will make him look good, whereas often times, a long costly war has harmed presidential legacies in the eyes of the public. Plus, Biden has attacked Trump from the right on foreign policy, and has people like Colin Powell speaking at his convention.
But like unless we have reason to believe Biden is definitely going to invade more countries (he very well might), it's hard for me to see him as objectively worse for people abroad.
I agree that that was terrible. If you think that sufficiently makes Biden objectively worse than Trump for people abroad, could you please elaborate as to why?
I mean it's hard to figure out exactly how to weigh a senile guy cheerleading a war a decade and a half ago that ended up killing over a million people against another senile guy who with basically unilateral control over the US foreign policy has done a lot of imperialism, but was not as bad as he could have been.
Biden critiques Trump's stance on foreign policy from the right – he promises to be stronger in the ME and is generally opposed to the stance the Trump govt takes in terms of withdrawal from costly engagements.
I am aware, I mentioned that in my first comment. And while that's definitely bad, afaik it's mostly been in a platitude sort of way. Like a "I won't cozy up to dictators like Trump did" sort of thing. It's definitely indicative of how Biden could end up being worse than Trump for people abroad, but not enough to make it definitely the case.
Well comrade cumwaffle (I love your name btw), you're wrong that the US has a lot of influence on the EU. While this comment doesn't apply to the Balkans or Eastern Europe, which are both very poor, rural, and reactionary; the USA have been losing their influence and leverage on the EU for like 4 years now, and I don't think countries like Sweden, France or Ireland would criminalize trans folks just because it suddently becomes this way in the US. In short, advising your trans friends to leave the US for a more civilized place is a harsh course of action, but a necessary one.
Also, I must ask, even if Biden was elected, would things be different in the end ? The can would be kicked 4 years ahead, and the same issues would remain, and aggravate. Biden would do absolutely nothing to stop transphobic violence, as a comment pointed out, so you'd be on your own, even under a Democrat president sitting in office.
Oh dear. Well, while what I wrote applies for your friends more than for you, I think you know first hand how bad Eastern Europe is.
Don't know about Sweden, but in Finland one of the requirements for legally changing your gender is being unable to reproduce, ie mandatory sterilisation, so us Europeans don't need Trump to tell us to be shitty. Even then, I suppose somewhere like Finland would be a nicer place for a trans person to live on average than the US, at least if you live in one of the bigger cities
Finland is an odd place. Considered Nordic by everyone, but doesn't share much of its progressivism, althought succdems there are trying to make 30h workweeks a reality; so we'll see I guess.
We've got a lot of guns- in a 2017 survey, we ranked #10 by civilian-held firearms per 100 population. I believe we are also the most religious Nordic country and Finland also sadly ranks pretty high in domestic violence against women. So we are pretty chuddy in some ways, but the other Nordic countries are in others- it's not all cuddles and rainbows
I'm not going to call somebody a lib over it, but honestly the people saying it's mostly privileged white dudes who are abandoning the Biden shit does bother me. I'm not white, sure as hell not rich and by all measures would be tossed in whatever camp they'd make if the time ever came along with nearly everyone I know, but that kinda stuff has always felt like internet melodrama to me. Like I know that at my worst points when I couldn't even really screw around on websites like this neither I or anyone around me gave a shit about people like Biden and it would just feel like bullshit if Biden voters thought they were championing me somehow. We know statistically it's the people in the worst positions that think none of this matters and don't vote and anecdotally that has always been my experience.
If someone thinks Biden will legitimately help them, then yeah, go for it. I don't really have a problem with that as much as the framing of all this as a broader last ditch effort or something when most of the people who really would die from anything Trump or Biden might do are already completely alienated from the electoral game to begin with.
honestly the people saying it’s mostly privileged white dudes who are abandoning the Biden shit does bother me. I’m not white, sure as hell not rich and by all measures would be tossed in whatever camp they’d make if the time ever came along with nearly everyone I know, but that kinda stuff has always felt like internet melodrama to me.
This. Doing vote-shaming shit like this is stupid, it doesnt practice solidarity and compassion, and it makes you look unserious to anybody who isnt steeped in left politics.
Our electoral system is very stupid and a vote for a third party is an effort in futility. I definitely would not tell anyone they have to vote for Biden or anyone, and I sure as fuck am not going to, but I'm still gonna vote down ticket for local and state level candidates.
I do think four more years of Trump would lead to an even larger increase of right wing violence that a Democrat president, I would fucking hope, might put down. Again I don't actually have any good answers, I just think the glee about him winning because the Democrats lose sits real bad on me.
Oh and fucking trust me I'm not happy with the options here so I'm straight up not voting for him, but I still don't want Trump. That's literally my position, I just don't want Trump. I don't like what that's going to mean, I don't like what that's going to engender, but it's better than what we currently got. I also think we can ram through a lot of shit through the rapidly deflating corpse of the DNC. I think electoralism is stupid but the Democrats can maybe help pull the pendulum the other way.
I dunno. It's a bad time. I don't have a lot of faith anything good's gonna happen. But more bad can NOT happen, that'd be nice.
Well don't forget our stupid system is set up to discourage people from showing up to the polls. Used to be, we'd just have thugs that would beat the shit out of anyone who showed up and voted for the wrong people. Now we just close polling locations for Black people and purge them from voter rolls.
We've had all kinds of fuckshittery like that. They won't talk about how Bush stole 2000, but the ballots in Florida were deliberately confusing and a lot of people voted for the wrong candidate which was biased towards making win. There's all kinds of dumb shit like that happening all the time.
Shit where I live, to vote in a primary you have to register 8 months before the primary.
The US should have positive rights, guaranteeing jobs, healthcare, votes, all that shit. But yeah.
I honestly think Biden would be worse than Trump. Trump didn't go to war in Venezuela. Trump gets sued by democratic AGs looking for quick points. Trump's proposed cutting police budgets. Trump can't deport people because democrats hate him enough to refuse to work with ICE.
Trump may be the harm reduction vote.
I'm cis, want communism, and would still vote Biden in a swing state. (But instead live in a state where voting for President doesn't matter, yippee American democracy.)
The Democrats might still lose, even if active leftists mobilize (the real vote turnout reserve is in the relatively checked out masses - they need a reason to pay attention to politics, we don't). It might hurt the party enough to give the left more of an opening, but it might not. They have deep pockets and resources - ones they will (and do and did) deploy against the left first.
Biden winning will put the libs in the media to sleep, but it won't kill the movements like Obama's victory did, because the situation is worse and the young generations are wiser and more pissed off.
Life is the most important thing. Unlike the fascists many of us do not believe in life after death, I’m trans and just started living my life as my true self and I do not want it to end in a concentration camp.
Damn. Another struggle sesh on harm reduction? Alright, I'll bite.
To say that Biden will reduce lead to a net reduction of harm is a shit argument because:
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If there is going to be a civil war or collapse of the state or anything, it's just as likely to happen with Biden at the helm as it is with Trump. Bidens not turning back the clock to 2010. There's a good argument that Biden winning will actually increase the chances of large scale political violence taking place, since any conflict will likely be started by right-wing groups.
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The argument basically accepts that US lives are worth more than the lives of those under the American boot. Biden will 100% be more hawkish than Trump. His foreign policy will be run by a union of liberal interventionists and neocons. Expect more support for right-wing nationalists in eastern Europe to counter Putin and greater support to figures like Modi in an attempt to triangulate against the PRC.
Is Trump actually a dove? No. But he does have some hesitation about large-scale conflict. For all of the rhetoric and grand-standing, Trump understands that the US could lose in war. Biden is the dumbass who believes in American exceptionalism and the righteousness of empire.
Now don't be stupid and vote for Trump. But don't buy into the story that Biden is significantly better either. Both are shit options and the future will be bleak either way.
I'm in third world and I'm not gonna lie, as a queer person, I hate how the absence of anti discrimination legislation or the lack of marriage rights is seen as a worse than bombing brown people.
Do people in the American core think the brown people you're bombing aren't trans or queer? Them being alive to fight another day is a always a bigger victory.
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Sure but it's only on point if you explain or describe how Biden will make it better, otherwise you're just telling people what they already know (Trump sucks)
I truly don't know enough either way so I certainly take your word if you're tracking the issue more closely. But conceptually I can't imagine Biden really changing much in terms of actual outcomes for folks.
I could just see Biden side-stepping and then the states do whatever they were going to do anyways. It's not like Trump is rolling back trans protections in California (that I'm aware of). But again I'm not tracking very closely so apologies if that's too simplistic of a view.
how would that work? I'm trans nonbinary, live in oregon. The state laws are already totally divorced from federal anyway. My gender literally does not exist my social security card, but it does on my driver's license. Would this extremely vague policy just mean your social security certificate could never be updated??
The most likely scenario though, is that the republicans & democrats are just going to play football with our rights, just like they have with abortion rights, and nothing will change federally either way.
It's kinda like how when the Supreme Court was like, look trans people! You can now no longer be fired for being trans! [if you can prove it and you have the time and money to take your employer to court]! Now they have to make up a lie before they fire you first!
I agree, no matter who wins this electron states rights will mean more for gsm than any federal changes. I highly doubt any third party will even make the board, the only entity that would make substantive change for the better.
I honestly think the only way to help is direct action to help people relocate to states that are better, and strengthening communities in person.
yeah, local is always going to have a lot more impact. Shit, we could pay for a trans comrade to go through medical school and then have them be the hormone chapo doc, and set up a crowdfund for trans comrades and probably do more good than the democrats will do for trans people nationally.
That's (another) shitty thing about Joe Biden's low enthusiasm numbers, i worry it's going to hit downballot dems that will actually make a difference too. Someone like Kshama Sawant isn't perfect but if we had one of her in each big city? Can you imagine? Or even a couple more AOCs in congress gives us rhetorical power and helps the movement grow even if they are p much always blocked from doing cool shit.
Basically, it is each person's choice to engage in electoralism or not. For me, i don't see much positive impact esp with biden since i'm in a blue state, he's more conservative then our shitty lib mayor. Deffo voting downballot and encouraging everyone to voting downballot as well tho. A blue senate will do more than biden imo.
Exactly, and that's what makes me say fuck Biden even more. The intentional sabotage of the progressive wing and welcoming people who are vocally opposed to LGBT rights into their arms. Dem want to use LGBT rights as a culture war shit rather than make a substantive change, not an accelerationist but I think another 4 years of ineffectual trump followed by an even more energized progressive party that has more leverage in the party is ultimately.better but also know very well that mask mask off trump would usher in the most fucked of stuff domestically whilst a mask mask off Biden will usher in fucked stuff internationally.
All I want is to not be put in a cage. I know many of our trans comrades suffer a lot and it’s hard to see a path where their suffering is improved by any candidate. But there’s one candidate who will be seeking to find scapegoats for the failure of American capitalism and how much you want to bet that we will be the target. There’s no way out of this country anymore with the pandemic, and like I said, I don’t want to end up in a cage. I understand why people don’t want to vote for Biden, neither do I, but the future with Trump getting a second term is too scary, I’m voting for Biden as well (and for every other democrat). Many of you can go back to your lives and hunker down until the fascist regime dies but us trans people have no where to hide.
It would be one thing if we actually stood a chance at Revolution but let’s face it, the only people picking up guns in sufficient numbers are the fascists and reactionaries. I know you guys like to shit on the libs but let’s be real, if we’re gonna get support from anyone then we’re going to have to have a lot of them on our side. Give them a reason to hate us more and you’ll further alienate us and push them towards the reactionaries. We need allies not enemies. I get that it’s fun to shit on them but to give them the finger and tell them to fuck off is not going to help our cause.
This could be a matter of life or death for some of us. Do not take this situation lightly.
Are you seriously advocating working with liberals? Surely you jest.
Biden may be the best path to radicalization though. A lot of us are more aware of things than we were in 08 when Obama took power. If they can do watch the liberal establishment fail again it may radicalize more of them to be convinced that is not the path. There’s still too much faith in our government for anyone to be radicalized. There’s a lot more Bernie supporters who are voting for Biden than there are opposing the liberals.
No matter what we don’t have the numbers or the resources to stand up against the government at this time.
when one candidate has a -2000 good person score and the other has a -1999 good person score, is there really a "lesser evil"? they're both genocidal warmongers and they're both gonna plunge this country into fucking hellfire. at this point its "do you wanna be put into a cage for being trans in 3 months time or when the second civil war starts"
