Certainly long before the Louisiana purchase, and other westward expansion. Russia is less of a prison of nations that the US is.
In all fairness thats not even the "USA." It's Jamestown. That colony created a huge empire. America's nomenclature belongs, historically, to the entire continent - the USA stole it, in 1776, with the writing of the Articles of Confederation. There is no actual place called "the United States of America."
Liberals really don't want to start this conversation about modern day nation-states being empires
can't lose a war against a country that doesn't exist :think-about-it:
when will the evil Kingdom of Wessex decolonise the rest of the island of great britain?
Italy had essentially a project of cultural genocide on their own people (:citations-needed:) in the name of national unity because the peninsula was filled with a ton of distinct cultures and languages.
Wait, which citations needed episode was that now? I feel like I've heard every episode 3 times now but I don't remember that one
About "their own people". It's definitely done multiple times. But I think Episode 137: Thought-Terminating Enemy Epithets (Part I) (and part II) are the main ones. Mostly centering the language used for formal enemies of the US, primarily Iran, since some of the other big bads had taken a back seat for a few years. My reference was about using that cliche.
Oh I thought there was one on the cultural homogenization of Italy
I don't think there was. Wonder if there's a good podcast on that. It seems like it would be an interesting topics, because in my experience it's a topic that people outside of Rome and the north seem to care deeply about.
I'm currently in the last days of the Republic in the History of Rome podcast. Maybe a few hundred episodes down the line they might get there
to all psychics: Do NOT face Putin alone when Astral projecting, he is TOO POWERFUL
The dude moved his troops to start the intervention on 2/22/22 as Pluto was nearest to Earth. You think he doesn’t have seven layers of Orthdox ward spells on himself and everyone in his circle??
This is what race science looked like to build a system of identifying the good ones from the bad ones so that nazi Germany could justify its imperialism within their race science.
This is "Lithuanians are the real Rus" and an attempt at justifying their new dehumanised identifier for the enemy - "Muscovites". You can then argue for exterminating all the Muscovites and install the real Russians as the rightful rulers of Russia.
We need a significant denazification of Europe. It's going to get real bad.
Europe has been a racist shithole for multiple millennias.
America could have been the greatest nation in the world if we didn't treat the natives like something to be eliminated, and didn't enslave people to build it. A melting pot is amazing. A nation built of people from all over the world working together not based upon ethnicity, nor nationality... but we are the most racist nation in the world, with the largest wealth gap and the highest military budget. Literally the empire- a hypocritical parody of itself at the greatest level.
Europe has been a racist shithole for multiple millennias
no it hasn't race as a concept was made up in the 1600's. The idea that there are white people and black people literally isn't old enough for people to have been racist for millenia
Technically speaking, classifications of Subsaharan Africans and Central/East Asians into their own boxes goes as far back to Ancient Rome, at least since the Romans started cultivating relations with Cushitic and Ethiopian kingdoms after the conquest of Egypt (which already had a diverse population). Of course, there wasn't the system of exploitation and conquest which would make said classifications less obscure beyond footnotes by explorers/geographers.
Aside from that, it's certainly possible to be racist towards people who you consider biologically separate. A significant amount of Romans certainly were towards other Europeans they conquered (though it's not quite comparable to what we'd see later in the 18th century onwards).
yeah but those boxes weren't racial in the modern sense as for example the Romans believed that by gaining Roman citizenship people in Africa would become Roman and no less Roman than another Roman citizen from Europe or even the Italian peninsula.
the idea of heritable race not based on identity or tribe but genetic difference is relatively new
i don’t really think the last two points you guys made negate each other tbh. the “inherited supremacy” shit was more of like a precursor to modern racist ideology, and aristotle definitely wasn’t referring to “white” people or “black” people as the concepts of white, black, other races, didn’t exist the way they do now.
It is. The first mention of the word “race” in any language was in the 16th century. Racialism is a system of human taxonomy that was invented post-enlightenment.
Of course there was bigotry, xenophobia and ethnic persecution before that. Racism is a specific thing though, and it was invented at the advent of capitalism
The first mention of the word “race” in any language was in the 16th century
Samuel Alito has entered the chat
Let me know how you figure people were discriminating by race before the concept of discrete color-based races was even invented. Putting people into boxes that hadn’t yet been defined or imagined.
The concept of racism predates racial categorization? Since race is a social construct (no discrete biological or genetic categories) how is that possible? Society had to construct it first before using it as a tool.
Are you confusing xenophobia, bigotry, tribalism and ethnic persecution with racism? They are not the same thing, racism is a subset of the others and a new invention of modernity and the scientific community of the developing capitalist states
Prior to "race" as a concept being invented to justify colonial atrocities, xenophobic discourse hinged on things like religion, diet, and climate rather than blood. Like before they got the idea to start measuring skulls and whatnot they thought that warm climates and flavorful food would make people "base and bestial" (I'll add that this is a weirdly persistent reactionary idea that you still see popping up today by people who cram handfuls of raw, unseasoned ground meat down their gullet as a performative display of purity and masculinity) and before that it was purely religious ideas about all non-christians being little more than demons in human skin or the like.
Racism developed after the conversion of indigenous peoples to christianity, as Europeans needed a new excuse for why they were continuing to enslave and slaughter them as the religious subjugation and conversion arguments they'd relied on stopped being useful.
Nah, if America didn't use slave labour it never would have become as powerful as it is. Maybe if they immediately began building communism, but the population would be half the size it is today
Depends on your definition of great, I suppose. If by great you mean an industrial powerhouse, the home of modern medicine, a place where living standards were super high, then no. All of that was enabled by slavery and exploitation.
It wouldn't have been any greater than any other country outside of the imperial core.
If the plan was to immediately build communism, the mercantilist monarchies would have never funded the expeditions to cross the sea
Let's suppose they abolished slavery and hit the communism button straight after the revolution. They already would have had a population of Immigrants, ex-slaves, and natives to work with.
while we're at it what if the Romans had instead of building an empire had decided to build communism
What if the primordial lungfish that crawled out of some ancient sea was an-prim?
The point of the revolution was to allow for westward expansion. There was 0 chance the revolution could have been cool. The only successful revolution in US history was carried out by slaves during the civil war.
:jesse-wtf: The USA wouldn't have existed without the New World conception of racism, and the old world wouldn't have adopted racism as it is without ideas around segregation coming from colonial governments. The only ethical govt that could have appeared at the time would have been a group of native confederacies.
Without Native genocide, it wouldn't be America. America could never have been great.
The Holy Roman Empire was neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire.
:downbear: it's authority came from the pope, making it holy and Roman, and it was composed of several conquered territories, making it an empire. Stop quoting Voltaire and grow up.
it’s authority came from the pope, making it holy
Lmao ok, I guess holding the same office as Alexander VI makes one holy
"Holy" in the sense that the US is a "democracy." Formal religion decides what is and isn't holy, and stares decide what to call their style of government.
It was a fucking joke about Germany loser stop taking shit at face value. :pigpoop:
"I just put up a quote many people take seriously and believe with no indication that I didn't mean it. Do better."
nothing in the post indicates this was a joke and I don't know you. Also, what's the relevance of the joke? That Germany was mentioned?
there really was no reason to for the reddit bro energy either tbh, you jumped straight to being an asshole based on what exactly? Their post also indicates nothing more than at worst that theyd fallen for a common misconception that is often repeated without attribution to voltaire, its a pretty big leap of logic to ascribe anything malicious in it that would warrant being a jerk about it. Also lots of "jokes" on the internet esp are literally just "this is a thing that exists, remember?" Just off top i remember it being quoted as referential joke on QI once if memory serves
Didn't get too mad in my initial response, just explained why the joke was wrong. Only got aggressive after the other poster started name-calling and said I didn't get the joke.
You’re very first comment to them was childishly obnoxious and not comradely behavior for a completely innocuous comment.
Fucking debatebro shit right here. This isn't reddit, I don't even read fucking reddit enough to keep track of the shit they say. I was honestly thinking about gamers(paradox shit) and territory when that came to my mind.
Gee you could have made your point about the problem with it without trying to be smartass and being personal. But hey I guess I apparently need to do better next time I pick a random quote from historical figures on a thread everyone is making jokes about countries.
As for the relevance I suggest you open a map next time.
Yeah actually, do better than picking a random quote. And what map are you looking at with HRE on it?
Pffft, everyone knows the real Holy Roman Empire was the Byzantines. The HRE was just a bunch of German Papists larping as Romans.
The real Holy Roman Empire was the friends we made along the way, nerd.
it’s authority came from the pope
Let's pretend the reformation never happened
HRE starts with Charlemagne, gets its name when the pope declared him emperor.
Sure let’s just ignore the last 400 years of its history because some Frankish larper wanted to be called Caesar
It's name originated with him and the pope, and they didn't do a renaming after the fact so that's still why it was called that.
These people will trace the geopolitical history of Russia to before written records but won’t acknowledge the genocide of the native americans
No no you see basically no one lived on the continent until good ole chrisy Columbo showed up
Liberals who do acknowledge native Americans will always refer to them in the past tense
Nizhny Novgorod isn't Russian? fucking LMAO its been Russian since 1200 at least, prior to that almost no one lived there permanently
Most importantly I just love me a good zh (and kh) sound.
Me to Americans when they pronounce it like a Z or a K: :top-use-words:
also fuckin england shouldnt exist according to these people and replaced with like 15 different countries, half of which would be controlled by the welsh
based
Apparently Welsh nationalists are working on it, and to them I say god speed.
How are you supposed to pronounce them? I usually say zh like a soft j and idk about kh
Soft j is good. For kh it's closer to a hard h, so similar to the Scottish pronunciation for loch. Like it's not exactly an h, but imo it's a better approximation of the pronunciation than a k sound.
I give liberals a few weeks before they start claiming Russians aren't Slavs because of skull shapes
belongs, legally, to Lithuania - Muscovy stole it
LITHUANIA LITERALLY "STOLE" IT IN THE FIRST PLACE! That was territory of the Kievan Rus, and after that state collapsed into its constituent duchies, Lithuania gobbled a bunch of the western ones up. What the fuck even is this understanding of history - every country other than Russia just dropped fully-formed out of the sky, with their borders already set? Only Russia has ever conquered other territories? Just what
I don't think you can steal a word anyway. It just makes me think about grandpa simpson talking about how Germans stole their word for twenty.
critical support to the lithuanian pagans in their struggle against imperialist christian nations :thinkin-lenin:
Lithuania stole rightfully mongol clay, Russia actually belongs to the successors of the Great Khan
I'm so angry I'm going to do the thing I've been justifying 'genocide' rhetoric with for the past three months
"Rus nomenclature belongs legally to Lithuania"
literally wtf is this guy talking about this is so stupid it's meaningless
Greece claims the word "Macedonia", so the country is now called "North Macedonia". They even had to change the name of their airport from "Alexander the Great" airport. I bought Macedonian feta that I was confused at because it was from Greece.
France claims Champagne as legally theirs. And Parmesan is claimed by Italy.
The EU is very strict about protectionist food labels.
I think because this person doesn't understand even the basics of what a law is and have confused legally with meaning I think
There is no place called Europe. That land was originally settled by the Aurignacian culture. It ought to be reinstated. I'm officially calling for the forced de-modernization of all European peoples and a return, by force if necessary, to a hunter-gatherer lifestyle. I suggest having eternal patrolling drones in the sky who will kill anyone who does anything that the Aurignacian culture couldn't. Such as complex language, writing, or agriculture.
Showing a map of the US but the whole thing is yellow and labelled "not USA"
