OPENING CAVEAT: this is purely a rant about my own experiences as a not-rich leftist cis man in a mostly liberal city trying to date women. I cannot speak to any other experiences but mine.
I’m an occasional poster, mostly lurker here posting on a burner acct cause I don’t want to get at all personal on main.
all that out of the way….I am in my mid thirties, living in a large city, strongly leftist (maybe not by hexbear standards but certainly those of….virtually everywhere else), and holy shit does straight dating fucking suck in the 2020s. or at least it has for me.
over the course of my adult years I have rejected one way or another pretty much every structural advantage cis white men typically enjoy (especially higher income) in search of somewhat more ethical ways to get by. I quit my old “real” (bullshit) career and switched over to physical labor work that lets me completely unplug and helps me stay (relatively) fit but also keeps me perpetually on the edge of broke. when I tell women what I do there is a total incuriosity about it, as opposed to when I had a relatively well-paid bullshit career with a ladder - that, strangers can respect. now I scrape by but I no longer have panic attacks wondering what the fuck I’m doing. a personal win that has nevertheless rendered me a lot less dateable in the eyes of my peers. I am not imagining this change in perception, I don’t think, nor did I anticipate it. I guess I should have.
that’s when I even get to the stage of chatting someone up, mind you. when I walk into a small venue or party surrounded by strangers, to steal a line, “I do not light it up.” a single man (or at least a single me) at a social gathering or event is like a fucking wandering fart. (I have described this phenomenon to a couple of female friends and they didn’t disagree.) I guess this helps explain the enduring “wingman” concept but p much all my friends are partnered women I would never dare ask to help me in that way.
I’m slightly below average height which rules out dating basically all women over 5’7 due to idk internalized misogyny or whatever (ftr I would have absolutely no problem dating a taller person if they were attracted to me, and in fact was with someone significantly taller for several years, but since the advent of the apps I get the sense I’m getting filtered out altogether, whether on an app or in person). I know there are a lot of jokes about this but it really is just statistically measurably more difficult in my experience to date women as a short-ish guy (unless you're rich I assume).
in theory I could end my misery of abject singlehood by submitting myself to the mercy of The Apps - I met my last partner there a couple of years ago after a fucking shit ton of swiping - but I am too full of spite to consider going back right now. I hate hate hate using them, hate the feeling that I am entering a highly competitive meat market in which I am clearly a below average cut due to the above mentioned reasons, hate being reminded every time I open them up. also as mentioned I’m fuckin broke and at least as a man, ime, you gotta pay money to make them usable/useful (AKA shoot enough shots to even get a response before you hit the paywall).
that’s all beside my philosophical/political objection to using them which is that I fuckin abhor having to give my extremely personal information to some evil company. that’s why I have tried to manufacture as many scenarios/activities as possible to meet ppl IRL, but it’s been a couple of years of this with barely a hint of a spark anywhere.
here’s another major problem specific to my age bracket and gender: I emphatically DO NOT WANT to try to date significantly younger women, but ime they really do seem to make up the majority of women interested in dating a man my age who lives the way I do (that is, sans any sense of upward mobility or interest in “traditional” ways of doing things).
lastly, I wanted to add something about the cis aspect of all this….most of my friends and associates are women and nb folks, and virtually all of them are some flavor of queer. I’m not really, or certainly not enough to comfortably identify that way. it really seems like all the cheap and no-cost speed dating events and mixers I’ve spotted, or at least the ones that would theoretically be good for meeting other leftists, are queer-centric or queer-exclusive. great for you folks! not very helpful for me tho…
also before anyone chimes in with “it’s cool/ok/fine to be single” or any variant thereof….I’ve already spent major chunks of my adult life, years at a time, on my own. I’ve reaped all the benefits there are from singlehood, and I’m grateful for them, but I’m just so fucking lonely and it gets harder every year.
thank you for entering the leftist cis man rant zone. I invite other hexbears to share their grievances as well. I'm not really looking for advice tbh just wanted to yell somewhere
EDIT: shout out to all fellow hexbears struggling in this area I very much like you all!
also before anyone chimes in with “it’s cool/ok/fine to be single” or any variant thereof…
seriously fuck anyone who says this shit to someone saying they can't find any partner. and it's definitely not fucking fine to live your life with no peers who care about you.
I mean I wouldn't have any basis of comparison for anything else anyway
i feel worse now than i did before having and then losing it
the kid in my elementary school who died in an accident had a better life.
I used to get caught up in melodramatic framings of my misery like this, and please don't allow yourself to do the same. It's so fucking bad for you.
I'm sad and lonely and feel like my lack of relationships is a catch-22 that scares most women away and I absolutely fucking hate the idea of lying about it only to have to reveal to someone six months in that I was lying only for them to justifiably leave me for lying about my past but I'm not going to let myself believe that death is a better alternative anymore. I'm here and I'm trying my best to make the most of it. I would advise you to do the same.
If you had someone before it's far more likely you'll find someone than a person like me who's never really had anyone. I'm not going to give up. You shouldn't either.
the alienation impacts us the same way, I can't recreate the social conditions where i met my partner (and it would be incredibly inappropriate to try), and i can't participate in a capitalist plague rat society. There's no melodrama, I just find life more and more intolerable as time goes on and have no power to change anything about it.
It's so, so much more than just the romantic/physical loneliness too.
i'd rather chew on broken glass than go through intake again. same goes for any kind of job seeking, app swiping, or whatever joke of a social safety net. When i was a kid and depressed i had some reason to hope highschool would be better than middleschool or that college and adulthood would be better than highschool but there's simply nothing to look forward to now. I cannot defeat the suburbs, alienation, poverty, ableism, and medical incompetence on my own and nobody is coming to rescue us. Hell, i can't even blame the suburbs that much because even if i lived in amsterdam i wouldn't go anywhere or do anything besides get groceries and weed.
I wouldn’t say it’s fine, but if you’re having trouble finding a partner coming to terms with yourself and being alone is definitely not a bad idea. This is coming from some one who’s been single for five years and hasn’t had any kind of physical contact in over a year.
this is exactly what i mean with fuck all the way off that tired shit. we've heard it all before a million times and my goddamn hobbies do not fulfill my needs or keep me warm at night.
Absolutely dont fuck those people, learning to be okay with being single got me and a ton of people i know off the incel/conservative pipeline.
and it's definitely not fucking fine to live your life with no peers who care about you.
Which can be friends as well.
its not ok or a good life to never or only rarely have your sexual and emotional and intimate needs met. not every person can just be ace comfortably and its frankly ridiculous to imply that you have to either permanently repress your sexuality, desires, and needs or else you are an incel.
Maybe it's not a healthy state of mind to measure your self-worth in getting your dick in someone. Back in my day when dudes in high school were getting into all kinds of rapey situation in order to get laid and out of fear of loneliness and we called it toxic masculinity or something. Did something change in the last two years?
Edit: I'm not even fucking ace i just know that the earth doesnt revolve around my fucking sex life. Really, fuck me for not getting myself into a depression spiral over this.
no, the "fuck that" is for telling other people just to accept our lot. It's not about my self-worth, it's about whether or not suffering through life is worth the pain, and if you could peer into the future and tell me i would live decades without any companionship then fucking put me right into the ground.
You say it's not about your self worth but go on about how this is the issue why your life is worthless. I'm not really convinced.
0 < not worth the suffering < worth the suffering
i don't think it's that hard to understand.
JohnBrownNote's original comment saying that partners are the only way to get "peers who actually care about you" is not correct. But platonic love is not romantic love. I think it is entirely reasonable for alloromantic/allosexual people to want romance/sex in their life and to feel bad, even to be depressed, without that. (This may not help them find romance/sex, but that's a practical matter.)
You're right but
This may not help them find romance/sex, but that's a practical matter.
Is what the most important aspect of the whole problem is and why "stoicism" is actually very important and why "it's okay to be single" has to be explicitly said, especially to young people, especially to young lonely people, especially to the people who are snapped up by the right.
Anyway im gonna disengage from this thread because i was just pissed at first but im starting to spiral now.
I agree that society should have some way to keep the edge off. Sex workers as thereputic services would be something Interesting to see a healthy society try. However we know our society I's deeply flawed so we have to kinda limp along.
i was thinking more along the lines of addressing stuff like housing access, food insecurity, public transit, medical care, education, and non-profit public social spaces, and any other ways to fight capitalist alienation. i don't really know what to think about sex work especially under hypothetical socialism, its something so far removed from my reality or desires, so i don't really take a strong stance personally. obviously persecuting people who do sex work doesn't help anyone, but i would hope it would be unnecessary in a more egalitarian, socialist society.
That is all the requisite of having a healthy society. You are right that it is getting a little close to angels on the head of a pin to imagine it. Still after the revolution I would be down to do my part and be cool and fun and the center of attention and to help some comrades have a nice time. I have enjoyed situations. there would be a section of the population that would always be down for a little adventure especially if they were safe and free to experement.
i feel like this would be solved without sex work with better coordination mechanisms and destruction of patriarchy. There's few people inexperienced/annoying/unattractive enough that you couldn't find some other inexperienced/annoying/unattractive person to pair off with. Right now they don't because
- sucks to use an app mostly full of hot people that don't like you, so they leave
- objectification of women means men "get" something from sex; sex for pleasure is a labor parallel to sex for reproduction. Hence highly-gendered sex work for hundreds of years
- there are more male "bad partners" than female because of socialization under patricentricity. this means no-strings sex is dangerous for women
So sexless men search and find nothing (or resort to economic coercion) and sexless women don't search. We see healthier sex "economies" under socialism, e.g. GDR. I think that when people can fuck without getting stalked or hurt they will do so freely.
This trend is observable. Even here in the great Satan if you find yourself in a sex positive community so much of people's behavior changes. It is one of the first little ways I ever experienced a better world being possible.
stoicism doesn't solve problems. Acceptance of misery doesn't make the misery go away.
friends
so here's the thing about alienation under capitalism. the same things apply. I have hobbies, i have friends through those hobbies, but they are only present during those hobbies. People i've known for years but only in a task-oriented context
your bullshit rings incredibly hollow to someone who regularly goes months without so much as bumping fingers with a cashier and hasn't had even a platonic hug in several years.
My recommendation, find a buddy or two you can get baked and watch movies with. Do this regularly, it's good for the soul.
I have roomies for this purpose. Not the same :( incidentally, having roomies ALSO makes it harder to date women my age smdh
Yeah roomies definitely get in the way of dating a lot more than you'd think.
good lord yes, it's ugly out here. And I love when the go to excuse you usually receive from the internet is "well you must just have a shitty personality," nah, my personality is great, I make friends easily as hell when I actually get the opportunity to make them. (And let's be honest, we all know a good personality has never been a necessary prerequisite for intimacy)
But the opportunities simply do not exist, they are drying up just like our freshwater sources. Alienation is intensifying across western society, and social relationships become increasingly transactional and nakedly self-interested. And my god, I swear interpersonal communication skills are at a historic low. I don't think people even really know what they want anymore, after being fed so much manufactured, individually targeted corporate culture and living under "democratic" political regimes whose entire purpose is to gaslight you into being proud of your own exploitation. No wonder everyone seems fucked in the head psychosexually in the west these days.
Imo it's because liberalism in all its glorious "brilliance" has created a patriarchal society in which no one can become patriarchs anymore (though that was always sort of a myth for most people to begin with, but it's like there's less smoke to obscure that fact now). Tons of people don't even want this dynamic anymore. but society seems completely stagnant, like there's nothing to do about it but suffer trying to either attract or become one of these ridiculous caricatures of "dominance" while 99% of the population are forced to live as pathetic losers in comparison (aka "the proletariat"). The dissonance is fucking people up (men AND women) just like it fucked up the chuds into becoming qanon freaks. And personally I feel this phenomenon is partially why younger people are becoming more open to queer and nb ideas because the "standard" gender norms don't make any god-damned sense anymore in contemporary society.
Did you just suggest people are becoming gay because there are fewer available mates?
If so this sounds so familiar like a fever dream or a documentary, or some sci fi I have read.
not that people are becoming gay, I don't think that's something you can actually do if you aren't already. More like people are more willing to consider alternative sexualities and genders because of a broader sense of discomfort with traditional norms (plus people aren't oppressed as much for doing so). it's a type of dysphoria I suppose.
OK I got you
Also I figured out I was thinking of Jurassic Park, some of the female dinosaurs turn into males because of their frog DNA. One of the protaganists explains that frogs will do this if there are not enough males.
this was in the movie I was there Im the director
That is the kernel of truth to that whole thing. Groundwater from farmlands blasted with growth hormones and pesticides got in some swamps and did genetic damage to frogs who are capable of jurassic park style hermaphrodism/sex change (not totally sure, I'm not a Frog Guy) resulting in unusual frog sex behavior and physical expression in many ways including i guess what you could refer to as 'being turned gay' if you were Alex Jones
tbh I want a gf with frog DNA because then I'll have a frog gf and I can give her a big container of waxworms when she's mad at me and it'll smooth things over
people just keep inventing political lesbianism over and over and over again
i love that for each new generation.
Glad to know I'm not the only one out there having a horrible time on the dating apps. They really, really suck. It's frustrating to continually match with women who don't seem to bear much interest in me as a person or the things I care about but do want to immediately interrogate me about my sexual history and watch me squirm as I try to find the best way to spin my total lack of relationship history due to severe mental illness.
I'm 37 now, turning 38 in a few months. I've never had many friends and never officially got my shit together in any capacity. And I feel, sometimes, like I missed the boat on life, and I don't get to be a real person because I wasn't able to move out and make my own life before whatever the fuck milestone it is that makes it too late. How am I supposed to get any relationship experience if most women treat me like a leper if I'm honest about never having been in one?
wow, I never even get to that conversation. we usually just exchange "hey" and "how's it goin" and then the conversation fizzles out because neither of us are interesting. lol
My response to this is to suggest we do something in person within the first few exchanges. Everyone has had the fizzling out experience and there's no use being great at texting each other if it's not going to work face to face.
Oh man I feel that re: conversations on the apps. Like a more personal and deflating version of a bad job interview.
I went on a first date from hinge today with one of the prettiest people I have ever seen
It was fun, and I think went well. If we keep dating, I will have a positive opinion of hinge. The other apps are truly awful, and all of them have issues with starting conversations and creating genuine connections
Update: I have been friendzoned lol
I'll take it, she was very cool, shares my hobbies, and I can always use more friends to partake in my adventures
hinge remains okay I guess, I'll try one more time to find someone on it before giving up lol
hinge remains okay
counterpoint: pineapple on pizza commit to the bit flirt to roast ratio is a hotdog a sandwich therapists funniest client same type of weird if iced coffee in the winter hot coffee in the summer
nah but fr sorry your date didn't go the way you hoped but congrats on snagging a date with someone pretty and cool regardless
introverted extrovert who lives to travel Meyers-Briggs/sign in bio? Listen to podcasts go to beach true crime yoga!
Women don't be masking.
Not that men are either. But I do, and having the bare minimum of concern for the health of me and others is kind of high on my list.
This is an aspect I've thought about a lot. I haven't really seeked out any romantic connection since high school, so this is mostly academic, but I don't particularly value that my partner be a leftist or align politically with me at all. Obviously I wouldn't date a bigot, but someone who doesn't care about politics is fine as long as she'd be ok with me ranting about current events occasionally. Or a lib who isn't too enamored with the status quo who'd just see me as a deranged tankie lol.
But what about COVID? The default position on it has become complete disregard for the health of immunocompromised and elderly people. Am I willing to date someone who gave up protecting others, for essentially no cost to themselves, because the government said it was ok? I'm sure I could convince a few people to mask up if I showed them the data, explained my situation with elderly family, etc. But would I be ok with dating someone who didn't think twice about ceasing to wear a mask while they could visibly see how many people have been sick at every stage of the pandemic so far? It's weird to think about, maybe it's too judgemental and individualistic since there are many social factors in people's decision to not mask up.
It's apples to oranges, but it's like being with someone who has been a landlord or a troop in terms of the social harm that person has done.
All philosophical arguments aside, kinda hard to believe I'm someone's Soul Mate or that we have an incredible connection when they're not willing to do the bare minimum to protect me. My love language is definitely not Social Murder.
Edit: just to expand on this a little. It fell on me to be caregiver for me grandparents in their final years, which were not pretty. Unrelated to covid, my grandfather actually passed in the midst of lockdowns in 2020. And let me tell ya, anyone who doesn't have the courage to wear a mask right now because it's 'not what everyone else is doing' isn't gonna be there for you when shit hits the fan. There's people with Long Covid who have been bed ridden for years now; You think someone who's been ignoring reality is gonna suddenly step up and start doing the right thing when it's you, or you think they're gonna find a reason to keep ignoring reality and leave your ass? While there might be some who step up to a reality check, there's a lot of immunocompromised folks out there finding it's the latter.
where do I find the women who won't care that I'm unemployed / on disability?
Plenty of disabled women, you already have shared experiences to talk about
Plenty of disabled women, you already have shared experiences to talk about
maybe so. but where do I find them? 😩
I know it can be frustrating when someone gives you advice in response to venting...
But
p much all my friends are partnered women I would never dare ask to help me in that way.
Why not? I don't know the nature of your friendships, but I don't think its too much to ask a favor to help set you up with someone. Friend-of-a-friend type situations were how most couples met before The Time of The App in my experience
mainly two reasons:
1 at this point my close friends, who I can count on one hand, are ppl I've known for 10-15+ years and it just feels weird to rock certain boats in certain directions iykwim
2 my friends are all "well-adjusted" lib professionals whose friends are also that and none of them would stoop to dating a broke manual laborer who doesn't want to buy a house or whatever. I'm a total outlier in my social circle even a degree or two removed. again, whoops!
2 my friends are all "well-adjusted" lib professionals whose friends are also that and none of them would stoop to dating a broke manual laborer
A lot of the PMC women I work with are married to broke manual labourers
I'm not sure it's for you to decide who doesn't want to date you
I'm with you on a lot of things in this thread, but this one looks like you're looking for a cop out. Do what you will, but I think there's a real possibility here that isn't totally eclipsed by the prejudices you mention.
My friend and former roommate who is in his mid 40s had barely ever had a job, was homeless for 20 years and had only gotten off heroin and on to methadone because covid happened and he knew supplies would dry up quick but would still totally do all drugs and would bang opiates if they came by at a good price and in fact was pretty frequently smoking fentanyl when he met his first partner in over a decade, they're a school board member and they're still together 3 years later.
, but I don't think its too much to ask a favor to help set you up with someone.
Is this something that it's socially okay to ask for? I'm good enough at making friends but this sort of thing seems outside of the realm of anyone's conception.
holy shit does straight dating fucking suck
this has always been the case. gays stay winning
lol oh man, anyone who knows me from the megathreads knows ive been griping about almost the exact same shit for the past >half a year - I'm pushing 33 and got out of an adulthood-spanning serious partnership almost a year ago after a number of different long-standing issues made me realize i didn't want it to be my lifelong romantic relationship. work an unskilled manual labor job that will probably be a foot in the door to a larger career, but one in a relatively low-paying, public service position. (i'm also shorter than average, though i think (?) conventionally pretty solid looking)
honestly if i knew being single in the 2020s was this bad, i might have just tried to work things out with my ex (deep down i think it was still the right call to end things, but the misery of being single in our current dating environment sometimes makes me wonder lol). the apps are pretty much worthless, had to pay-to-win to even get a not-insignificant number of matches, but converting those matches into actual convos let alone dates has been pretty much a non-starter. the few times ive gotten promising seeming matches, they've dropped off the conversation but not given me the clear no of an unmatch. in addition to the self-esteem blow this all brings, i also hate how many profiles i have to swipe left on who i know with 95% certainty i wouldn't be interested in - they're people too who are probably lonely like me, and it feels like im just adding another layer of dehumanization into my life as a regular thing. these distinct souls with interiority are reduced to a "meh, i think not" in a human being catalogue. it's fucking gross.
i also know men are "supposed" to swipe relatively indiscriminately, but im honestly pretty selective about my type - if someone isn't some combo of creative, intellectual, also a leftist, into some of the same nerdy shit i am, a lil "alt", etc etc, i tend not to be attracted to them beyond physical attraction. and a lot of the matches i do get check these boxes! but, it's just so hard to stand out from the sea of men/the "meat market" as you put it that those matches just don't amount to shit. part of this boils down to enshittification/the apps not working being better for profit. but imagine if we could actually filter for hobbies, politics, etc as a given with these stupid things??? oh, the horror!
i also think your point about this being driven by loneliness is important. i'd be more "fine with being single" if the world had any semblance of community or consistent access to consistent friendships built into it anymore. but as it stands its "wake up in my apartment box, go to work box where people only interact sporadically (if they get along at all), go back home to my home box, sleep, repeat, punctuated by seeing friends once a month if im lucky (where we spend waaaaaaay too much money to do basic shit like get dinner or drinks together), once every few months if not." i will ask though, what's your cutoff for "significantly younger"? i keep a pretty wide range of Solidly An Adult open (would be open to anyone from 26 to early 40s), i personally think it's too hard to find a solid connection for me to be super inflexible about age. but everyone has their own standards and comfort levels!
EDIT: oh also i just don't list my height if its an option
and while my results are still not amazing i think it's helped lmao i just don't see much upside in it, there's a million different ways a date can be shitty or a waste of time and if height is a dealbreaker for the other person then whatever, they don't have to go out with me again I've talked with some people about the app business and the strategy seems to be "make your profile have the appropriate features to attract the sort of person you are interested in without concern for the others, and then swipe right completely indiscriminately, without even looking at the profiles for a moment" because it's just better for your mental health than actually participating actively in The Market. If you get a bad match, you can just cut it off then.
rumor has it that mass right swiping actually tanks your hidden score (so ur profile gets shown to fewer people). idk if that's true (also kinda dont want to risk it) but since they've introduced a limit to how many swipes you can do a day w/o paying it also limits this strategy i think.
Good lord I hate these apps. It doesn't seem worth it regardless for a guy to use one of these apps without paying, but then if it tanks you then obviously that's a bust.
solidarity my friend. I am too full of spite to not list my height on the apps tbh, if the other person is gonna be hung up on height at all I'd rather give them a chance to miss out
fair enough! i did used to list it but the thing that tipped me toward not is hearing many, many anecdotes of guys saying "women who care about height are generally not at all good at pegging your actual height" lmao. and i feel like a lot of people for whom its a secondary preference irl, who would totally give a shorter dude a chance, might swipe left in the dehumanized context of the apps where they're making shallow snap decisions (as we all are, im sure there are people ive swiped left on who might've been good fits for me had we stumbled on each other irl). so i figured eh, might as well up the chances of an in-person meet where my easy charm and charisma win out over any prebaked sense of preference
but i respect ur practice as well!
That's actually a good argument. If/when I have the patience and capacity to handle being on The Apps (and money to go on dates and use them lol) I will consider that!
women who care about height are generally not at all good at pegging
I'd be inclined to believe that too.
lmao true they're probably a bummer to date if ur into anything but being dom all the time
I feel you. It's comforting to know I'm not the only one with similar experiences, but also
that so many of us seem to be going through itcw self harm
After cheating on me, my last ex threatened to kill herself if I broke up with her about it. But I've been single for about 5 years now and dating has been so bad that I'm like "maybe it would have been better to try and make that toxic relationship work" lmao
I have had the thought sometimes that I can't even find someone to be abusive to me and exploit me and it hurt immensely to have it
I know how fucking toxic that thought is now, and I'm getting better, but it still hurt to tell myself that I'm so fucked up and useless there's nothing to exploit or take advantage of
Oh yeah I've been through a version of that bullshit wringer. I definitely prize being single over being/staying in a toxic situation.....but the former can still be a huge bummer.
Gloria Steinem said you should be just fine because women only supported Bernie for the boys.
In all seriousness I'm sorry dude. It's hard to even make friends when you get older let alone meet partners.
I'm a hermit so I can't relate. At a certain point the desire to date vs the energy I need to put into it becomes not worth it in my mind. Sometimes it sucks but I've got no choice at this point.
Plus the city needs me
Yup
haven't been face-to-face IRL with a person (of any gender) since 2020
Well I still talk to people lol but I don't go out unless it's for food, work or to have a walk
The dig at polyam people is kind of bullshit tbh. I'm polyam and all the other polyam people I know exclusively date other polyam folks. It has nothing to do with them being married or not or tricking anyone, it has everything to do with them having a shared lifestyle/interest and social community that bonds over that shared interest. We go out with our polyam friends to parties or dinners or polyam meetups or whatever and we meet other polyam people and sometimes we also date them.
So that's really the clever trick that polyam folks have already figured out, and is the exact same trick you and everyone else I've ever seen or will ever see complaining that dating is hard need to figure out; go out and do things with other people who have shared lifestyles or interests with you and you will make friends and those friends will introduce you to their friends and at some point along the line you'll probably find someone who wants to date you. Don't do it with the intention of dating, do it with the intention of sharing experiences that you enjoy with other people who also want to share those experiences and the rest will come. It's the exact same thing as what polyam folks do except that polyam folks can also date their friends that they're already hanging out with. That's pretty much it.
Outside of early life relationships (high school / college) where you're just constantly in proximity with single hormonal folks who also want to date...that's pretty much how much people do it. You either get on the apps with your hot face and attract people that way and go out on tons of shitty dates until you find someone who you actually click with, or you go out and share interests with your community and you'll meet someone.
was not meant as a broader dig at poly folks, just frustrating to contrast my life vs my friends', and operating as a pair makes a lot of things undeniably simpler vs being alone (again, ime)
Thanks for saying so. I will say operating as a pair absolutely makes things much more difficult, despite how it may look. Healthy married polyamorous couples often take years of work to get to that healthy spot...years of unlearning toxic monogamy and relearning how to date in a new broader more ethical mindset. Also at least in my groups most of the polyam folks I know don't date together, although there are some who date primarily as a unit.
Like, yes, sometimes it's simpler because if you have a bad date you can come home to your partner for support. But sometimes it's harder too, like you're having a bad day and your partner is out with their partner and you just have to deal with it alone.
Lotta people see happy polyamorous folks with our big groups of happy people we're all dating and think "wow that looks so easy and nice." And it can be, sometimes, and often is, more publicly. But there's a ton of work that goes on behind the scenes. That's true for every relationship, and multiply it by however many relationships you're in, plus the added complications of their partners, and yeah...it gets messy quick.
Anyway sorry for spamming your thread, I got lots of opinions and experience in this area and also really love talking about it with folks. As much as "dating" can be anyone's hobby ethically, I would count it as one of mine.
oh yeah the poly marrieds + couples etc I know who have kept their shit together have def worked hard at it (a few others have seen things explode spectacularly). it's just hard as someone who has not managed to go on a date in ~2yrs to hear them casually talk about the seeming reams of dates they go on sometimes (even if most of those dates are invariably terrible lol)
yeah honestly I think the struggle with meeting people outside of apps might be partly just that we all have less and less time away from work to just be out, recreationally, in the community, socializing. And that when we are out social norms are shifting away from talking to strangers.
And that when we are out social norms are shifting away from talking to strangers.
gotta love social atomization, baybee!!!
That's totally fair. I have no issue chatting with total strangers when I'm out too, and neither does the partner I go out with the most, so we meet all sorts of interesting folks by just...sitting down and talking to them. And not in the creepy polyam way of "hey we liked your vibe can we buy you a drink," we really just like talking to people. Once in a blue moon they're polyam too and we expand our community that way but...yeah it can be tough. I'm not gonna pretend it's easy but the old standby of "just do stuff you enjoy with people and you'll eventually meet someone" does work better than pretty much anything else. It can def be tough though.
I saw a guy who I sorta hooked up with once, at a rally/protest recently and honestly major swoon, he's so much cooler than me. I gotta just commit to doing more mutual aid and organizing work and maybe the right crossover of people will happen and I'll make a connection with someone (in addition to the work being meaningful of course, but I'd be much more effective at it if I stopped to talk to people more
Yeah that's also part of it...I think there's a hidden tip in the "confidence is attractive" thing. Like yes, confident people are more attractive, so if you want to date, you gotta believe in yourself and you gotta believe that people wanna talk to you and you gotta approach situations with that belief, but the hidden tip in there is that confident people just...talk to more people. I have a few polyam folks in my life who are really super cool people but they spend a lot of time at events or bars or whatever thinking "I should go talk to that person" rather than, you know, actually going and talking to that person. And then they get home and we chat about all the people they wished they talked to and how they wish they could be like me and just go talk to them. Like yeah, I know, "just go do it!!" is bad advice in every situation...but that should be the goal, to just get to know people in your community, whatever community that is. If it's a dating community or a soup kitchen or a protest or a union meeting or your local coffee shop or whatever it is y'all do. Dating is unfortunately an odds game...if you meet more people, you're more likely to meet someone you want to date, and the way to meet more people is to...talk to more people. Not in a creepy way or in a "I'm talking to date you" way, but just with "I want to be a part of and help build a community" part of way. Wherever that takes you.
So I guess what I'm saying is next time you see that guy at an action, just go say hi and chat a bit. If it goes somewhere sweet, if not, whatever. Now you got time to go talk to more people and keep participating in your community. And this is really just broad advice for everyone, in dating, or organizing, or any sort of community...community exists when people share thoughts and ideas and feelings with each other, and the way we do that is by talking with each other. So get out there and talk to people, all the people, all the time, even if they're super cool. Especially if they're super cool.
It has nothing to do with them being married or not or tricking anyone
That wasn't the sense of "trick" being used. It was in the sense of, uh, "I'll try spinning, that's a good trick!"
So that's really the clever trick that polyam folks have already figured out, and is the exact same trick you and everyone else I've ever seen or will ever see complaining that dating is hard need to figure out; go out and do things with other people who have shared lifestyles or interests with you and you will make friends and those friends will introduce you to their friends and at some point along the line you'll probably find someone who wants to date you.
You're right. But there is nowhere to go out and make friends (at least not where I live). If you don't already have a social life you're screwed.
It's not so much a dig but it does feel like some people are going back to the buffet for more while some of us don't have a plate yet
(the analogy works even better when you realize at a buffet you're supposed to get your own plate)
Sure, but we're at a different buffet. If you're monogamous most of us aren't going to date you anyway. We're in different markets.
I don't have either box checked I still can't find the fucking buffet
Poly person her: not sure that entirely true.
There's a decent amount of people out there that can go either way, poly or mono, and I've defiantly encountered a number of what I call "poly power couples", as in couples where both memebers are very attractive and usually well off, who date a whole bunch of people in addition to their primary partner, often people who are less conventionally attractive and maybe less well off than them. In fact, I've been that guy to one of these poly power couples. While I was cool with it I got the impression from meeting a few of my partners other partners that some of them maybe would have preferred being in a more serious relationship with someone, maybe even full mono, but the dating market sucks so much being a "side thing" to this hot rich person was better than nothing.
While I was enjoying myself it started to feel toxic after a bit and I broke things off. I've met at least two other people who have expressed similar experiences so it def seems like a "thing" now. Idk how common but in this toxic society I'm not surprised it's become a thing.
Yeah its tough. Pretty much in the same situation. about the same age, also in a large city.
I've used apps for years and spent an embarrassing about of money on them. I only recently gave them up. I wouldn't go back. There's just no point to them these days.
I also think that as much as we, as a society, have tried moving past some of the gender norms that were so prevalent in the past. But their impact still weighs heavily today. So things like your job, physical features, etc, etc are still things that can really hold you back in the dating scene.
