Permanently Deleted
trump is hitler which is why we need to vote for the guy who might more effectively kill more people abroad
Trump had us within hours of war with Iran; the "he's too incompetent to do imperialism" argument is overblown.
Considering the Dems response to that was 'he didn't go through the proper channels' then I highly doubt if Clinton were president things would have been any different.
You're way off base here. The confrontation with Iran stemmed from Trump pulling out of the U.S.-Iran nuclear deal Obama negotiated, then Trump saber-rattling (including "genocidal taunts" that a U.S.-Iran war would be the "end of Iran"). Right off the bat there's a stark difference in how each party has handled Iran. Then, during the crisis itself, the House passed a resolution "direct[ing] the President to terminate the use of United States Armed Forces to engage in hostilities in or against Iran or any part of its government or military unless Congress has declared war or specifically authorized engaging in hostilities." Realistically that's a lot more than "go through the proper channels," especially because there was no popular support for such a war and a bunch of prominent Democrats had already condemned Trump escalating the situation by assassinating Soleimani.
Democrats negotiated an agreement with Iran, they didn't just talk. There are plenty of places were Democrats do imperialism but this one ain't it, chief.
- Reaching a diplomatic agreement with Iran
- Assassinating high-ranking Iranian military personnel
You'd have to put your head clean through a brick wall to not see the difference
It wasn't a "diplomatic agreement" it was fucking extortion to get Iran to stop their nuclear program cos if they succeeded it would get a lot harder to coup them.
The USA broke their side of the "agreement" the month the deal was signed when they never halted sanctions like they'd agreed to.
Iran is in a bettter position now than at the end of Obama's second term. Obama's deal left Iran under moderate sanctions (a blatant violation of the deal as it was written) and under the threat that if UN inspectors weren't satisfied their nuclear program wasn't happening those sanctions would increase to cripping levels. The Trump administratoin increased US Sanctions on Iran but the loss of US soft power under his regime led to the UN declining to extend UN sanctions following the assasination despite the US pushing for those sanctions to be extended. As it stands the UN sactions on Iran are set to expire in October 2020, the US' unilateral sanctions are increasingly inneffective as the US' economic hegemony deteriorates and the Iranian nuclear program has more enriched fissible material stockpiled and is presumably closer to producing a nuclear deterrent than it ever has been.
The Trump regime has been a fucking gift to Ali Khamenei and the people of Iran.
Meanwhile Hillary wanted was saber rattling with Russia, war with Russia would be way more pleasant.
Listen bub, the US is an insanely militaristic psycho country with or without a cheeto in the white house.
This is dumb, Trump martyr'd one guy. Biden would have killed more people
"i want iran to know if I'm President we will attack Iran."
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yWAFvIT-NHs
I genuinely can't tell if this post is supposed to be encouraging or discouraging me from voting for Biden.
¿Porque esas son dos cosas diametralmente opuestas?
I more meant that you can't really be encouraging both voting for and against someone since it's a binary choice between two mutually exclusive things.
Yes, Biden is accelerationism, have you even looked at his cabinet? his policies? democrats normalise this shit, and they are more competent than Trump, and the libs will go back to sleep as their guy won.
The left in America graduated from non-existant to a force worthy of concessions after 4 years of Obama.
There's a reframing of history if I ever saw one. The left got no concessions during the entirety of Obama's term, Obama put the left to sleep, and got away with shit no republican could ever dream of. The choice between Hillary and Trump woke the left up again, and the entirety of Trumps term have seen the left picking battles again. Over the last 4 years we've seen an influx of libs radicalised to move left. Hell the courts just last week decided that the massive warrantless surveillance program was illegal, Bush needed a war to start that thing, while Obama could keep it going effortlessly during his entire term, and not a single thing was done about it from the left.
If the democrats get in office again, the news will stop reporting on the horrible shit the administration does, the libs will pretend nothings really wrong and everyone will go back to sleep. You are failling for the elites usual argument that "<current republican president> is a monster the likes of which history has never seen", when reality is that all presidents have been fucking horrible. They pull this shit every term, and has done so since before Reagan, and it's frankly depressing that more leftist aren't getting wise to the grift.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street
Occupy wallstreet was a cry from help from an entire generation and it that was a resounding failure, it achieved nothing, democrats co-opted it and led a nationally coordinated crackdown while the left just took it.
If you’re seriously arguing that a dem president wouldn’t represent a significantly reduced existential risk then I don’t know what to say.
Trump and the republicans only passed 1 bill before democrats took the house it was a 1 trillion dollar tax give away to the rich. This pales in comparison to what democrats have given Trump in the last 2 years, they've voted for his trade deals, expanded his military budget including giving him a fucking space force so we can now militarize space, passed his budgets including the wall, gave $4.5 trillion to the richest 0.1% with the cares act while screwing workers during a pandemic directly leading to the eviction crisis today and riots in the streets, and finally they funded his federal agents to snatch people off those same streets.
Dem's can do this shit because a large part of the left still think that "they are on the same side" despite selling out working people at every turn and rubber stamping authoritarianism. Clinton and Obama have both gotten away with monstrous acts that are directly responsible for the situation today, which no republican would ever have be allow to. Dem's are not an opposition party, they are controlled opposition, both parties answer to the donor class, the only choice you get is if you want your authoritarian state with a rainbow flag or public displays of racism and hate.
Yet here you still are arguing that they have any interest in "harm reduction" while their candidate argues against providing people healtcare during a pandemic, argues for fracking during what is clearly a climate apocalypse, and picks a cop as his VP while saying they should "shoot protestors in the legs" when the population is screaming for justice.
This is not a real political party, It is pure political theater. nothing more.
so your saying trump won't willingly abdicate power after another term, but you think he would to Biden if he loses now? wouldn't the best chance of the left building power if Trump is going to refuse to leave office be after 4 more years of Trump as if Biden wins it would just start a civil war?
Hitler 1.0 isn't going to willingly step down, so we must stop him by ... voting him out?
It's worth a try?! Hitler came into power by democratic means and lifting the veil of legitimacy early might help
I don't think it really makes a difference. Maybe that argument would work if Trump was an ideologically committed fascist, and actually intelligent.
The scenario where Trump would unsuccessfully hold power after losing an election (or voluntarily step down) now, but then successfully refuse to step down after 4 more years is IMO pretty unlikely.
That's specific aspect of her I can't get over. Literally how could she be so evil as to do something like that? There isn't even an economic motive for that, it's just torturing someone in the worst way imaginable for no reason. It's not even in a personal, physical way, which twisted people can enjoy. It's going through a court hearing, and filling out some paperwork to torture some person you don't even get to see. It makes no sense.
Oh, I won't deny at all that he has caused significant damage. But to argue that Biden would result in a reduction of damage done is very difficult, especially when you consider foreign policy (an area where it is very relevant that Trump believes in fuck all ideologically).
Uhhh Hitler wasn’t voted in by anyone... Hindenburg made Hitler chancellor? I don’t really see what point you’re trying to make
Hi,
I'm a lib and think that voting for a racist rapist warmonger who was behind every bad decision for the last 40 years will stop the fascist slide of America, and not just give us a more competent Trump in 4 years after "nothing has fundamentally changed"
Of fucking course voting for Biden won't stop the slide. Voting won't change shit. IMO Trump losing might stop the fascist slide from being validated though. That part is It's a coin-toss vs Las Vegas slot machine.
but JFC. stop having a strugle sesh and vote shaming people and go knock on your neighbor's door. Electorism won't save us, building comunity networks can build up bulwarks though. You stop the effectiveness of fear-mongering by getting to know people and letting people get to know you.
This. We could scream at each other all day about what vote is best or if it matters / is effective, but at the end of the day that is all theory. What we know works for sure is building strong community relationships, developing networks with other like-minded people and reaching out to drag people in from the middle. Radicalizing libs ourselves and not hoping that whoever is in top seat will make them comfortable enough to be radical. Every voting based thread on here leads to some real weird infighting - let's focus on what unites, not divides, us.
Counterpoint
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Trump isnt Hitler
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Obama started more wars than Bush
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Trump hasnt started a war
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Concentration camps started under Obama/Biden
Youre trying to adovocate voting for a rapist and VP that created the concentration camps
You should do some self crit and read some theory so you dont come out with removed takes like this
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- Trump is not even close to Hitler
- 2020 America is not allegorical comparable to 1932 Germany
- The Democrats are not even close to being a left-leaning party, there is no meaningful organized leftist party in America nor a remotely powerful organized labor movement (both were present in 1932 Germany)
- The liberals and social democrats voted for Hindenburg as the lesser evil over Hitler and got Hitler anyways
Thinking four more years of Trump is remotely equivalent to a Hitler chancellery/presidency is the height of ignorance. It wouldn't be meaningfully different from a limp-dick Biden term and that's why this election should not and does not matter to any American leftist any longer.
You wanna vote for Biden for "harm reduction", do it, it doesn't matter in the slightest. But shut the fuck up trying to wokescold everyone else who better understands the situation better than you.
Trump isn't even a real fascist. He's basically an eccentric neocon and Mike Pompeo has becomes last courtier standing behind an idiot king.
If this is anti-accelerationists then yes. If this is pro-Biden then no.
Nobody is obligated to vote and there's a strong case to be made that not voting IS the best moral and strategic option. Even within the framework of liberalism, anybody telling you voting Biden is harm reduction is "moving the goalposts!" Let's break it down to basics:
What is a democracy? What is a vote?
A democracy is a system where a majority elects a candidate to represent them and consents to be governed by that candidate with their vote.
(To contrast, in a monarchy, the claim to legitimacy is derived from a divine right to rule. Nobody explicitly consents. Right to rule is justified by a vague tautological appeal to "natural right," or a "mandate from heaven," or something along those lines.)
A vote is the symbolic act of voluntarily giving your consent. If you do not consent to be governed by any of the available candidates, you should not vote. It's as simple as that.
