15 thousand upvotes on :reddit-logo: :yes-honey-left:
Lmao Churchill was sympathetic to Hitler until he started invading. They should switch Churchill and Stalins roles in this.
Also Stalin won the war. Cope harder, Nazis.
FDR and Churchill were like Pippen and Kukoc to the Stalin's Michael Jordan. And that's being generous to them.
that's a bit unfair to fdr, america was more important to the war effort than britain
The analogy works pretty well then because Pippen was more important than Kukoc.
Churchill England spent the entire war operating as Germany's punching bag. The man was a complete disaster at every level of leadership, governance, and defense. Liberals holding him up as a war hero for the next 80 years really tells you everything you need to know about the kind of people who have been managing the decline of the West.
When the British Empire had more industrial capacity at its disposal at the start of the war than the USSR and US combined but still was beaten in production by both each.
Just Churchill things.
In fairness, the amount of lend-lease given to the USSR, while not necessarily won the war for the Soviets definitely shortened it. Though, it also made the Western Front that much easier so...
Churchill honestly wasn't. I hate to admit it but he was pushing for Franco-Soviet relations for a while for example. Churchill liked Franco and Mussolini, but he hated Hitler, particularly because Hitler was German.
Yeah reading 1939 by Carrey has really gotten across that Churchill, evil though he was, did not trust Hitler one bit. He sought out officials from both sides to push for them to fulfill their planned staff talks and unfulfilled obligations of French arms to the USSR. As well as talking with Soviet ambassadors about Soviet accomplishments, he was apparently "thrilled" about the industrialization east of the Urals.
Appeasement was Chamberlain and Halifax, through and through
that's the stupidest reason to hate him tho. especially since he was austrian.
It made him representative of both major European Central Powers, plus Churchill always hated Germans and Austrians to him are just south Germans
:very-intelligent: Ah yes, Hitler may have had purged all the Communists he could in his country and Stalin may have tried to form an anti-fascist alliance with the west, but have you considered the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact?
Every fucking time they cite it as some grand historical gotcha. Stripping all context from it.
That certified America Moment™ when the US STATE DEPARTMENT IS MORE HONEST ABOUT COMMUNIST COUNTRIES THAN IT'S OWN "ENLIGHTENED" POPULACE
:agony-limitless:
:agony-immense:
image worked for me, but this is the State Department page.
do you mean the links in the image or the image I linked? :confusion:
https://archive.ph/AX8DF
because both work for me
https://i.ibb.co/NjQ39Xr/moltov-ribbentrop-even-the-state-dept-acknowledges-the-truth.png
gives me a 404 not found from an nginx instance
weird. even right now this link still works for me.
EDIT: The direct png link works for me but the main link (https://i.ibb.co/NjQ39Xr, which is the stupid one with the page wrappers they want everyone to use) doesn't work for me. Are you on mobile? I find on mobile all direct image links on image sharing websites are redirected to the page wrapper link. Which I find infinitely irritating. Maybe they removed it for some dumb TOS violation. I would imagine the word ribbentrop maybe triggered something. I have a hard time lately with pastebin's smart filters. and a lot of image websites trying to auto-remove any political content i upload, especially with respect to mention of Nazism. It seems to be unable to distinguish between mentions of nazism in a negative light and a positive light. I think anything other than the cynical mainstream american narratives with regards to WW2 is outright banned.
Anyway I reuploaded it: https://i.ibb.co/Ny42kSm/moltov-ribbentrop-even-the-state-dept-acknowledges-the-truth.png
tell me if that one's fucked too
my efforts to understand what have caused this have failed :shrug-outta-hecks:
I love history, Hitler totally didn't despise percieved "judeo-bolshevism" in all its forms, both Hitler and Stalin definitely saw MR as an alliance that put them on the same side,
Good vid on the Non-Aggression Pact: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz5JyfNQSLQ
Stalin & Hitler are both usually portrayed in military uniforms, so they are exactly the same.
Liberals: Respect the Troops
Also Liberals: Foreign people in military uniforms are always the bad guys. Good guys wear pinstripe suits
I thought about posting this but there's nothing really ideologically meaty to dunk on.
Russia saved the world but the powers that armed, funded and enabled the nazis want credit for it instead
A) The word "cooperation" is doing so much work here I'm filing an NLRB complaint on it's behalf, and
B) So you just pretend the cooperation between France, England, America, Romania, Poland, Japan, Italy, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Hungary, Finland, Denmark and Germany both didn't happen and had no bearing of the decision of an encircled USSR to protect itself after the west spent years throwing them to the wolves?
"Are you just ignoring this one temporary alliance based on political necessity that only occured because of strategic triangulation by every other country in the west? I am very smart. Also Stalin should have let Hitler have all of Poland so he could murder 12 million Poles instead of just 6 million".
You mean trade between powers that shared a boarder at the time as well as a tentative peace treaty? The Soviets were absolutely not supporting the Nazi regime and their only mistake was not immediately arming German communists and promoting revolution after the Reichstag Fire.
But even then, the good relations the NSDAP shared with British and American industrialists would have likely seen that leading to the war starting with the West forming a coalition against the Soviets which the USSR absolutely was not prepared for.
Also the Soviet/German treaties were some of the last to be written, the western nations also signed non-aggression pacts with Nazi Germany.
Yeah, definitely better to have the Nazis controlling all of Poland.
"We liberated Europe from fascism, but they will never forgive us for it" — Marshal Zhukov, USSR.
I can't imagine a less physically threatening pair of combatants than FDR and Churchill.
This comic should just be FDR and Stalin dunking on Churchill for being upset about executing Nazis
:wojak-nooo: -Noooo! You can't just execute war criminals en masse!
:stalin-joking: :capitalist-laugh:
For anyone not familiar:
In his six-volume history, The Second World War, Churchill provides the following account of what happened at Tehran:
STALIN: Some fifty or a hundred thousand German officers must be liquidated. The entire General Staff must go.
CHURCHILL: The British Parliament and public will never tolerate mass executions. Even if in war passion they allowed them to begin, they would turn violently against those responsible after the first butchery had taken place. The Soviets must be under no delusion on this point.
STALIN: Fifty thousand must be shot!
CHURCHILL: I would rather be taken out into the garden here and now and be shot myself rather than sully my own and my country's honor by such infamy.
ROOSEVELT: I have a compromise to propose. Not fifty thousand, but only forty-nine thousand should be shot.
This conversation has been corroborated by numerous sources, which state that Churchill at this point left the meeting and walked off into an adjacent room. Stalin and Molotov followed him in. Stalin insisted he was only joking, and convinced Churchill to resume his place at the table
"The British Parliament and public will never tolerate mass executions"
-man who spent years facilitating the mass executions of millions in Russia and elsewhere in a deliberate attempt to use fascism as a weapon against socialism
"I am strongly in favor of using poison gas on uncivilized tribes"
-Bonus quote from very same epic bacon hero regarding Afghanistan
Churchill literally oversaw the mass killing by starvation of around 2 million Indians and an unknown number, but as many as 3-4 million Iranians during the course of the war.
Can't shoot a hundred thousand Nazis though.
Yeah but mass executions of Germans? By that point they were considered white.
CHURCHILL: I would rather be taken out into the garden here and now and be shot myself
Stalin did one thing wrong: not taking him up on this.
ROOSEVELT: I have a compromise to propose. Not fifty thousand, but only forty-nine thousand should be shot.
Roasted his ass
When I down vote garbage neo-liberal propaganda on reddit with thousands of upvotes on the front page :im-doing-my-part:
It's funny to tell these people that if any treaty, including non-aggression pacts, with the nazis count as siding with the nazis, then France also sided with the Nazis and watch them trip over themselves to say that's different.
And poor widdle Poland who was more than happy to gobble up bits of Czechoslovakia.
I mean, its different because France was straight up invaded and defeated. Might as well claim Belgium, Greece, and North Africa were siding with the Nazis.
I'd say the better comparisons to the USSR are Spain, Switzerland, Iraq, The Indian National Congress, and the US itself, all of which had substantive domestic interests in seeing the German war machine triumph in Europe (particularly against the British).
What gets me even more with these comics is the way Japan is almost completely scrubbed from the WW2 history books. You rarely if ever see Tojo or the Pacific Theater mentioned. Nobody seems to express interest in the collapse in relations between the US and Japan or the subsequent genocides conducted across the Oceanic island range or the Chinese mainland. Despite all the movies made about the Pacific Theater, the politics of the moment are completely lost among folks fixated on Stalin/Hitler dynamic.
They are not referencing Vichy France, they are saying if non-aggression pacts are "siding with" then France also sided with the Nazis as they had non-aggression pacts with the Nazis early on
