Just in case I was wrong in my assumption and you were agender, for instance? I try not to go around assuming everybody is a trans girl y'know
I mean I agree that femininity is pretty cool, but there are also women who enjoy being big and loud, Idk. It's not like these people are bringing about the end of femininity, there will still be femmes at the end of the day to appreciate and kiss, although I'm not certain femininity is any more inherently treasurable than masculinity. I'm dead curious, where do femboys and other feminine male-aligned identities fall in your value system? /gen
Actually also, where do butch lesbians fall into this? What about transmasc lesbians who like, microdose T or something? Do nonbinary people also get this dichotomous reaction from you? /gen
Also masculinity is not inherently loud and awkward, I'm pretty sure? Toxic masculinity sure can be, but there's nothing about masculinity that says it has to be loud or awkward, it just didn't fit you is all. Also insert "trans man short king" meme here!
Yw It's not a great reaction and it's good to acknowledge that and do self crit, but I also think it's not productive to beat yourself up about having these brainworms.
No you're fine I say and feel some very transfem things but I'm still working through it.
I know, I'm probably projecting a lot of my own feelings about myself into the issue.
femboy brainworms
where do femboys and other feminine male-aligned identities fall in your value system?
I don't know if this is really my like "value system" because I do logically love all my trans and queer peers. Its just like a gut reaction thing I want to improve.
I don't know. Its really hard to parse all my feelings. Its a little... uncanny? My gut reaction is disliking it. I think its really when you see/they show their masc features that it gives me that feeling. I know its rooted in bad reasons (either my very cishet childhood, or my own feelings of wishing I was more fem and suppressing those feelings somehow [if that makes sense]), but yea. I don't know.
Thank you for your kind words. I can be very hard on myself. I'm trying
Saying and feeling transfem things uncritical support.
Indeed yaw, and that's not super good cause they're other people, your feelings about their bodies are irrelevant!
mmmm, brainwormssss
"Uncanny" because feminine but a man, I suppose...? I'm feeling like this analysis of masculinity & femininity is painfully rooted in binary gender exclusively, that's my vibe. I might find masculinity sometimes unpleasant myself, and certainly I'm not a fan of testosterone's effects on the body, but that is personal preference and doesn't make masculinity bad, you know? Transmasc lesbians are kinda rad actually. There are lesbians who use he/him, even!
Cishet childhood will do a number on anyone, I assume you're not satisfied with your level of fem atm though?
Yw again, trying is the first step to getting better so good on you
that's not super good cause they're other people, your feelings about their bodies are irrelevant!
I know they are! I just want to make my feelings a little more aligned with how they should be.
I'm feeling like this analysis of masculinity & femininity is painfully rooted in binary gender exclusively
Yea probably. It bothers me so much because I know it's wrong but I don't quite feel it yet, you know?
I assume you're not satisfied with your level of fem atm though?
I definitely wish I could do some fem coded things (like get rid of all this awful hair), but I don't know if I need to throw out my whole gender, or how comfortable am I with just kinda accepting what I've got. I also don't feel very "womanly" atm, my body just feels like a dude. And then there's some things that don't bother me as much that I feel like "should" if I was a transwoman, but I do feel a lot of gender envy, and :cri: it's just no good.
Gender binarism sucks, your life will improve if you delete it from your mind & expand your analysis to have more genders in =)
Woah, that's a ton at once, lots of conflicting stuff. I can say that you absolutely should get rid of that hair since it's bugging you, any way you can: shaving, epilating(expensive), waxing, nair(use carefully), whatever works just do it to be more comfortable. Is there anything stopping you from doing it?
I'm not certain what you mean regarding "throw out your whole gender", if you mean your agab then yeah prolly. It seems like it bothers you?
some things that don't bother me as much that I feel like "should" if I was a transwoman,
What things don't bother you as much as you feel they should?
Yea, sorry for the trauma dump 👉👈 I was feeling pretty bad last night.
I have been, the stuff that's not visible + face and neck. It's just social fear. I don't want people to make comments.
I don't know, maybe some cis guys feel the ways I do. Sure sometimes I hate it (or at least parts of it) but sometimes I don't. Maybe I'm just a cis guy who likes some more feminine things.
I don't really have any bottom dysphoria, which seems like a big one. I remember watching a contrapoints video (I know I know) and she mentioned that transwomen don't "use" their penis the way men do. And I kinda want to. If I was born without one I don't think I'd have any great pull towards getting one, but I also don't want to get rid of it necessarily.
I feel like these feelings happened/were noticed too late. Like if I was trans, surely I would have known once puberty started up or maybe even as a teen, but now I'm past both of those things.
Okay cool, very nice. Fwiw I've never had anyone comment about my body hair, although I do wear long sleeves a lot. If someone does, just tell em it's aerodynamic, like swimmers do.
Okay but cis guys never "hate it" though, I'm certain of that. I don't think you'd be here, you know?
Oh man fuck Contrapoints, she's ridiculous, she's a sad /tttt/ user with awful ideas about everything. An enby-exclusionary transphobe to boot. What the fuck is "using" a penis the way a man does? Does this mean trans women aren't allowed to have insertive sex, because if so I have bad news for half this thread, and I'm also a fake trans, lmao. Benefit of the doubt, I'll assume Contra wasn't generalising, but there are no rules about how trans people can use their sexual anatomy. (Also nobody has any right to pass judgement on how anyone uses their sexual anatomy) There are tons of transfemmes who happily enjoy insertive sex. Your view of your bits does not make you less trans. Presence or lack of dysphoria does not make you less trans.
Trans people realise they are trans at many ages in many different ways, observe @EstraDoll@hexbear.net who just realised she is trans like two months ago. I might be a teenage transitioner, but without running into certain books I'd have probably transitioned way later. My wife transitioned in her 30s. The idea that trans people just know from childhood is a myth perpetuated by gatekeeping health "care" "professionals" for whatever stupid fucking reason. Gender is hard though, and it takes everyone different amounts of time and internal consideration to realise. Coming to know that you are trans in your 20s, 30s, 40s, or even later does not make you less trans.
Trans people realise they are trans at many ages in many different ways, observe @EstraDoll@hexbear.net who just realised she is trans like two months ago.
more like 7 weeks lmao. I'm still a zoomer but I'm a grown adult, which means i'm transitioning at like, a little older than average if I had to guess (I have no idea what the average age to transition is) but like, regardless of how long it takes you to realize, the eggy ass thoughts were always there. There are a lot of trans people out there who didn't figure it out until much later than me. There's even this one absolutely adorable photo of a trans woman at the top of r/transtimelines (which is bad for my mental health and I should not look at that sub again for a long time) who didn't transition until she was sixty seven. It is absolutely never too late!
Oh man fuck Contrapoints, she's ridiculous, she's a sad /tttt/ user with awful ideas about everything. An enby-exclusionary transphobe to boot. What the fuck is "using" a penis the way a man does? Does this mean trans women aren't allowed to have insertive sex, because if so I have bad news for half this thread, and I'm also a fake trans, lmao. Benefit of the doubt, I'll assume Contra wasn't generalising, but there are no rules about how trans people can use their sexual anatomy. (Also nobody has any right to pass judgement on how anyone uses their sexual anatomy) There are tons of transfemmes who happily enjoy insertive sex. Your view of your bits does not make you less trans. Presence or lack of dysphoria does not make you less trans.
and it's funny you mention that because I think one of the reasons it took this long for it to click is that I just don't have any genital dysphoria. I wouldn't say I love them but I like them and I want to use them. In a weird sense I think of it as something of a privilege because of how few other women can claim that. It is a little inconvenient because taking the no-op route basically means that there are a handful of fashion choices that are going to take some extra work to pull off, if I can at all but like... eh. (god i wish i could just wear the leggings and nobody cared)
Probably 25 if I had to guess? Idk. Hello zoomer :) sorry for the @
I do think that not figuring it out till way later isn't mutually exclusive with looking back and going "oh, egg behaviour", not universal but not uncommon. Imma keep it real w/u chief, I love our trans elders. Literally always happy to hear about my trans siblings finding themselves at any age ❤
I hate that so much, the narrative that bottom dysphoria is a requirement for being trans. It's dumb and it's fake, like there have been nonop trans people since there have been trans people. Also honestly, after hearing some cis women talk about wanting one... maybe it sort of is in a weird way? Trans superiority!!
But yeah same re: fashion stuff, I just wear jeans for convenience...
I'm doing okay right now, overall this is not fun though.
hmm. Maybe I'll give it a try at some point. I don't want to go the whole summer hating my legs so what else is there to do.
Its hard for me to imagine someone always liking their gender and all that. Like who isn't a littlevery jealous of women.
I know she is, but idk. Sometimes she made sense to me. I'm surprised its that common, I feel like I've seen a lot of transwomen complaining about not wanting to perform penetration and their partners wanting them to.
cw for brainworms around transwomen's genitals (is anyone surprised at this point)
So obviously I don't care what transwomen do with their bodies, and if they want to keep the penis, that's up to them. (and iirc like 90% do?)
But like, as if it wasn't bad enough for women to have a penis how can a woman be okay with that? Its so... unwomanly. And that's really me? A transwoman who some how is okay with the whole penis thing? That's just... odd. It doesn't make sense to me. If I like the penis I must be a guy, but at the same time I'm pretty sure I'd hit a button to magically change my gender from birth and all that. Its just so confusing It makes me feel like a man pretending to be a woman.
I have been watching her transition she seems very happy and brave. Thank you for sharing your story. I know you don't "have" to know from when your a child but it still feels very weird to me.
Yeah shaving your legs is awesome, feels great. I haven't in ages but I might do just for fun, Idk. I tend to yeet all my body hair maybe once every eight or nine months? Weirdly I don't really mind the body hair but for its curliness, which makes it bunch up and stand out.
Lmao, I know right?? Surely everyone wants to be beautiful lady! It Is Known!
She has said good things, she's not a total brainworm pit, but I'd turn a critical eye to anything she says. Unsurprisingly societal connotations around having a penis and the expectations that come with it mean that a lot of trans women get fetishistically pigeon-holed by anyone they have sex with, which is awful. I've seen people talk here about how they both do not have bottom dysphoria but also hate it when every partner they have expects them to top. Not having bottom dysphoria also is not equal to always having insertive sex.
my comrade in christ....
No it's fuckin not, there are tons of women who in fact do not have a vulva. Secretly, sexual anatomy is only gendered because cis people, the majority sadly, have chosen to conflate gender and genitalia 1:1, it's how they "decide" a baby's gender and get it wrong so often. They do this because as cis people their gender is aligned with the one they were assigned at birth, and in not changing their bodies at all they keep the genitals they have. But one size does not fit all. Also that 90% stat is probably down to the inaccessibility of bottom surgery.
But yes, a woman can have a penis, a man can have a vulva, hell very rarely people are born with something more ambiguous. Some people get surgery to have both, which is incredible. You sometimes hear cis women talk about how it would be cool to have a penis, which doesn't automatically make them a man. The association of sexual anatomy with gender only exists due to the dominance of cisgender people, which has been enforced very violently over the course of our history. Certain gatekeepy medical "professionals" will get arsey with you if you say you don't want bottom surgery, because they must uphold the cisnormative social order. It's harder to keep their strangehold on cishet gender, which helps feed the machine of capitalism with workers, if people are running around questioning the dogshit assumptions they have put in place. Society drives these cisnormative assumptions into you from birth, which is insidious and hurts people and is part of why that shit must be stopped.
Why is a penis inherently male? Just because most people born with one are men? Ridiculous; if the penis belongs to a woman, she is still a woman, and the penis is female, same in reverse for anyone with a vulva, and of any gender. You are not pretending to be a woman, if you say you are one, you are, regardless of what is in your pants.
As a footnote to all of this, read The Gender Accelerationist Manifesto which is an awesome synthesis of trans/queer theory and leftist theory. Great read.
We love our trans comrades, don't we folks? ✨ I really adore seeing people go through transition and feel good about it, warms my heart.
No prob, and it's like anything else I guess, you could switch careers or realise your sexuality isn't what you thought or become a hardcore leftist or change your gender, any time in your life. Life comes at people at different speeds, and we're always changing.
Take some time and listen to trans masc people and their struggles. You don't even have to know someone personally, but reading enough on how dysphoria wrecks them should be more than enough to help you understand better. I know you said don't be too harsh on you, so I'll just say this is something worth diving into more if this is still how you react to trans masc people
Also sounds like you have your own gender things to work through right now that are contributing heavily to this. Hope to see you posting when yoi get past this too
I should have asked this originally, but do you have any good transmasc youtubers I could listen to share their experiences? I know it's bad that's why I want to get over it. It feels so reactionary and I want to do better.
Yea, the more I think about it the more I wonder/feel like that's the case. I will keep posting, I love this place :meow-hug:
Hmm I don't have anyone in particular, tho I'm reminded of this video that I saw recently about someone trans masc coming out and beong happy about it. Maybe that's worth a watch
I am confused
spoiler
No 😔 but masculinity sucks. Its big and gross and terrible. Its loud and awkward and I hate it. Femininity, now there's something to be treasured.
but I do understand what you're saying, thank you.
Just in case I was wrong in my assumption and you were agender, for instance? I try not to go around assuming everybody is a trans girl y'know
I mean I agree that femininity is pretty cool, but there are also women who enjoy being big and loud, Idk. It's not like these people are bringing about the end of femininity, there will still be femmes at the end of the day to appreciate and kiss, although I'm not certain femininity is any more inherently treasurable than masculinity. I'm dead curious, where do femboys and other feminine male-aligned identities fall in your value system? /gen
Actually also, where do butch lesbians fall into this? What about transmasc lesbians who like, microdose T or something? Do nonbinary people also get this dichotomous reaction from you? /gen
Also masculinity is not inherently loud and awkward, I'm pretty sure? Toxic masculinity sure can be, but there's nothing about masculinity that says it has to be loud or awkward, it just didn't fit you is all. Also insert "trans man short king" meme here!
Yw
It's not a great reaction and it's good to acknowledge that and do self crit, but I also think it's not productive to beat yourself up about having these brainworms.
No you're fine
I say and feel some very transfem things but I'm still working through it.
I know, I'm probably projecting a lot of my own feelings about myself into the issue.
femboy brainworms
I don't know if this is really my like "value system" because I do logically love all my trans and queer peers. Its just like a gut reaction thing I want to improve.
I don't know. Its really hard to parse all my feelings. Its a little... uncanny? My gut reaction is disliking it. I think its really when you see/they show their masc features that it gives me that feeling. I know its rooted in bad reasons (either my very cishet childhood, or my own feelings of wishing I was more fem and suppressing those feelings somehow [if that makes sense]), but yea. I don't know.
Thank you for your kind words. I can be very hard on myself. I'm trying
Saying and feeling transfem things
uncritical support.
Indeed yaw, and that's not super good cause they're other people, your feelings about their bodies are irrelevant!
mmmm, brainwormssss
"Uncanny" because feminine but a man, I suppose...? I'm feeling like this analysis of masculinity & femininity is painfully rooted in binary gender exclusively, that's my vibe. I might find masculinity sometimes unpleasant myself, and certainly I'm not a fan of testosterone's effects on the body, but that is personal preference and doesn't make masculinity bad, you know? Transmasc lesbians are kinda rad actually. There are lesbians who use he/him, even!
Cishet childhood will do a number on anyone,
I assume you're not satisfied with your level of fem atm though?
Yw again, trying is the first step to getting better so good on you
I know they are! I just want to make my feelings a little more aligned with how they should be.
Yea probably. It bothers me so much because I know it's wrong but I don't quite feel it yet, you know?
I definitely wish I could do some fem coded things (like get rid of all this awful hair), but I don't know if I need to throw out my whole gender, or how comfortable am I with just kinda accepting what I've got. I also don't feel very "womanly" atm, my body just feels like a dude. And then there's some things that don't bother me as much that I feel like "should" if I was a transwoman, but I do feel a lot of gender envy, and :cri: it's just no good.
Gender binarism sucks, your life will improve if you delete it from your mind & expand your analysis to have more genders in =)
Woah, that's a ton at once, lots of conflicting stuff. I can say that you absolutely should get rid of that hair since it's bugging you, any way you can: shaving, epilating(expensive), waxing, nair(use carefully), whatever works just do it to be more comfortable. Is there anything stopping you from doing it?
I'm not certain what you mean regarding "throw out your whole gender", if you mean your agab then yeah prolly. It seems like it bothers you?
What things don't bother you as much as you feel they should?
Yea, sorry for the trauma dump 👉👈 I was feeling pretty bad last night.
I have been, the stuff that's not visible + face and neck. It's just social fear. I don't want people to make comments.
I don't know, maybe some cis guys feel the ways I do. Sure sometimes I hate it (or at least parts of it) but sometimes I don't. Maybe I'm just a cis guy who likes some more feminine things.
I don't really have any bottom dysphoria, which seems like a big one. I remember watching a contrapoints video (I know I know) and she mentioned that transwomen don't "use" their penis the way men do. And I kinda want to. If I was born without one I don't think I'd have any great pull towards getting one, but I also don't want to get rid of it necessarily.
I feel like these feelings happened/were noticed too late. Like if I was trans, surely I would have known once puberty started up or maybe even as a teen, but now I'm past both of those things.
No worries you are okay
Okay cool, very nice. Fwiw I've never had anyone comment about my body hair, although I do wear long sleeves a lot. If someone does, just tell em it's aerodynamic, like swimmers do.
Okay but cis guys never "hate it" though, I'm certain of that. I don't think you'd be here, you know?
Oh man fuck Contrapoints, she's ridiculous, she's a sad /tttt/ user with awful ideas about everything. An enby-exclusionary transphobe to boot. What the fuck is "using" a penis the way a man does? Does this mean trans women aren't allowed to have insertive sex, because if so I have bad news for half this thread, and I'm also a fake trans, lmao. Benefit of the doubt, I'll assume Contra wasn't generalising, but there are no rules about how trans people can use their sexual anatomy. (Also nobody has any right to pass judgement on how anyone uses their sexual anatomy) There are tons of transfemmes who happily enjoy insertive sex. Your view of your bits does not make you less trans. Presence or lack of dysphoria does not make you less trans.
Trans people realise they are trans at many ages in many different ways, observe @EstraDoll@hexbear.net who just realised she is trans like two months ago. I might be a teenage transitioner, but without running into certain books I'd have probably transitioned way later. My wife transitioned in her 30s. The idea that trans people just know from childhood is a myth perpetuated by gatekeeping health "care" "professionals" for whatever stupid fucking reason. Gender is hard though, and it takes everyone different amounts of time and internal consideration to realise. Coming to know that you are trans in your 20s, 30s, 40s, or even later does not make you less trans.
My comrade in christ
I hope you are doing okay 
more like 7 weeks lmao. I'm still a zoomer but I'm a grown adult, which means i'm transitioning at like, a little older than average if I had to guess (I have no idea what the average age to transition is) but like, regardless of how long it takes you to realize, the eggy ass thoughts were always there. There are a lot of trans people out there who didn't figure it out until much later than me. There's even this one absolutely adorable photo of a trans woman at the top of r/transtimelines (which is bad for my mental health and I should not look at that sub again for a long time) who didn't transition until she was sixty seven. It is absolutely never too late!
and it's funny you mention that because I think one of the reasons it took this long for it to click is that I just don't have any genital dysphoria. I wouldn't say I love them but I like them and I want to use them. In a weird sense I think of it as something of a privilege because of how few other women can claim that. It is a little inconvenient because taking the no-op route basically means that there are a handful of fashion choices that are going to take some extra work to pull off, if I can at all but like... eh. (god i wish i could just wear the leggings and nobody cared)
Probably 25 if I had to guess? Idk. Hello zoomer :) sorry for the @
I do think that not figuring it out till way later isn't mutually exclusive with looking back and going "oh, egg behaviour", not universal but not uncommon. Imma keep it real w/u chief, I love our trans elders. Literally always happy to hear about my trans siblings finding themselves at any age ❤
I hate that so much, the narrative that bottom dysphoria is a requirement for being trans. It's dumb and it's fake, like there have been nonop trans people since there have been trans people. Also honestly, after hearing some cis women talk about wanting one... maybe it sort of is in a weird way? Trans superiority!!
But yeah same re: fashion stuff, I just wear jeans for convenience...
hmm. Maybe I'll give it a try at some point. I don't want to go the whole summer hating my legs so
what else is there to do.
Its hard for me to imagine someone always liking their gender and all that. Like who isn't a little
veryjealous of women.I know she is, but idk. Sometimes she made sense to me. I'm surprised its that common, I feel like I've seen a lot of transwomen complaining about not wanting to perform penetration and their partners wanting them to.
cw for brainworms around transwomen's genitals (is anyone surprised at this point)
So obviously I don't care what transwomen do with their bodies, and if they want to keep the penis, that's up to them. (and iirc like 90% do?)
But like, as if it wasn't bad enough for women to have a penis how can a woman be okay with that? Its so... unwomanly. And that's really me? A transwoman who some how is okay with the whole penis thing? That's just... odd. It doesn't make sense to me. If I like the penis I must be a guy, but at the same time I'm pretty sure I'd hit a button to magically change my gender from birth and all that. Its just so confusing
It makes me feel like a man pretending to be a woman.
I have been watching her transition
she seems very happy and brave. Thank you for sharing your story. I know you don't "have" to know from when your a child but it still feels very weird to me.
Yeah shaving your legs is awesome, feels great. I haven't in ages but I might do just for fun, Idk. I tend to yeet all my body hair maybe once every eight or nine months? Weirdly I don't really mind the body hair but for its curliness, which makes it bunch up and stand out.
Lmao, I know right?? Surely everyone wants to be beautiful lady! It Is Known!
She has said good things, she's not a total brainworm pit, but I'd turn a critical eye to anything she says. Unsurprisingly societal connotations around having a penis and the expectations that come with it mean that a lot of trans women get fetishistically pigeon-holed by anyone they have sex with, which is awful. I've seen people talk here about how they both do not have bottom dysphoria but also hate it when every partner they have expects them to top. Not having bottom dysphoria also is not equal to always having insertive sex.
my comrade in christ....
No it's fuckin not, there are tons of women who in fact do not have a vulva. Secretly, sexual anatomy is only gendered because cis people, the majority sadly, have chosen to conflate gender and genitalia 1:1, it's how they "decide" a baby's gender and get it wrong so often. They do this because as cis people their gender is aligned with the one they were assigned at birth, and in not changing their bodies at all they keep the genitals they have. But one size does not fit all. Also that 90% stat is probably down to the inaccessibility of bottom surgery.
But yes, a woman can have a penis, a man can have a vulva, hell very rarely people are born with something more ambiguous. Some people get surgery to have both, which is incredible. You sometimes hear cis women talk about how it would be cool to have a penis, which doesn't automatically make them a man. The association of sexual anatomy with gender only exists due to the dominance of cisgender people, which has been enforced very violently over the course of our history. Certain gatekeepy medical "professionals" will get arsey with you if you say you don't want bottom surgery, because they must uphold the cisnormative social order. It's harder to keep their strangehold on cishet gender, which helps feed the machine of capitalism with workers, if people are running around questioning the dogshit assumptions they have put in place. Society drives these cisnormative assumptions into you from birth, which is insidious and hurts people and is part of why that shit must be stopped.
Why is a penis inherently male? Just because most people born with one are men? Ridiculous; if the penis belongs to a woman, she is still a woman, and the penis is female, same in reverse for anyone with a vulva, and of any gender. You are not pretending to be a woman, if you say you are one, you are, regardless of what is in your pants.
As a footnote to all of this, read The Gender Accelerationist Manifesto which is an awesome synthesis of trans/queer theory and leftist theory. Great read.
We love our trans comrades, don't we folks? ✨ I really adore seeing people go through transition and feel good about it, warms my heart.
No prob, and it's like anything else I guess, you could switch careers or realise your sexuality isn't what you thought or become a hardcore leftist or change your gender, any time in your life. Life comes at people at different speeds, and we're always changing.
Take some time and listen to trans masc people and their struggles. You don't even have to know someone personally, but reading enough on how dysphoria wrecks them should be more than enough to help you understand better. I know you said don't be too harsh on you, so I'll just say this is something worth diving into more if this is still how you react to trans masc people
Also sounds like you have your own gender things to work through right now that are contributing heavily to this. Hope to see you posting when yoi get past this too
I should have asked this originally, but do you have any good transmasc youtubers I could listen to share their experiences? I know it's bad that's why I want to get over it. It feels so reactionary and I want to do better.
Yea, the more I think about it the more I wonder/feel like that's the case. I will keep posting, I love this place :meow-hug:
Hmm I don't have anyone in particular, tho I'm reminded of this video that I saw recently about someone trans masc coming out and beong happy about it. Maybe that's worth a watch
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
I know I'm just :projection: my feelings. My ✨ gender feelings ✨ are kinda kicking up right now too so that doesn't help.
Although I will say, twinks have always seemed very femme to me.