So, on reading this, I had to wonder whether the author was a Trot, or just a liberal. Turns out he's a Trot. :shrug-outta-hecks:
dan la botz is an infamous old head academic trot with liberal tendencies
The Ukrainian nazi state by law and edict suppresses the decimated left-wing of Ukarine while massacring its minority populaton and treating it's demoralized conscripted army as cannon fodder for the sake of pro-western optics
The DSA literally supports fascism
Many individual DSA members and chapters have upheld the basic socialist principle of international solidarity, that a nation and people subject to foreign aggression have the fundamental right to defend themselves, and the right to obtain from wherever they can the weapons they need to carry out that self-defense. The bulk of the DSA International Committee (DSA IC), however, has failed to uphold this principle.
This isn't a statement from the DSA, and it sounds like the DSA (or at least the international committee) is largely against this.
and it sounds like the DSA (or at least the international committee) is largely against this.
I would say that the opinions DSA-IC does not equal the DSA as a whole whereas their national office that the party as a whole elects is. As disappointing as that is
its attacking this article that talks about DSA's response
https://www.dsausa.org/democratic-left/dsa-and-the-war-in-ukraine-toward-a-mass-socialist-anti-war-movement/
Yep, DSA-IC like I thought. At least whoevers in charge of approving publications is a fellow traveler
I think technically any member can publish in Democratic Left, but the IC is full of MLs and anti-colonialism types and it's positions on the Ukraine Conflict have been approved by the NPC for the most part. The NPC isn't necessarily made up of people I would trust to be consistently correct on international issues but it's nowhere near as bad as all these (my suspicion is former ISO) Trots that are trying to sell Sotsialnyi Rukh.
theres no distinction, its just the national committee where the foreign policy work happens, but it represents DSA’s stance cause its all approved by the NPC
Hm, there's a distinction between the statements of the NPC and the IC in that the NPC does the "condemn both sides but let's talk more about america" whereas the IC properly chronicalizes the events leading up to the invasion including the failures of the Ukraine to follow both Minsk agreements.
The key thing here is that because the DSA-NPC and DSA-IC are a national formation they've been better able to put aside their disagreements to work together on advancing the anti-war and anti-imperialism camp explicitly against their home country's role in the war, whereas the international communist movement is still choking on the question of whether or not it's bad to invade fascist nations.
Also I've been :logout: and logging in for the past 2 hours just to make this reply lmfao
Also I’ve been :logout: and logging in for the past 2 hours just to make this reply lmfao
The heart of a poster
:fidel-salute:
Just cause the IC one is from before the invasion and the NPC one is a more public facing short statement after the invasion. The current NPC basically defers to IC on handling foreign policy stuff in general and not really overrides things cause theyve approved everything. I think there's largely political unity at the national level on this among the major internal political factions. The only people complaining have been the ones like la botz who wrote this article, but they are inconsequential cranks and in a small minority now.
also idk whats wrong w the site right now it keeps logging me out too lol
At least they got rules based order libs in charge lol
The war to keep posting even when the site tells you to :logout: continues
I don't think it's just the IC here:
While DSA was initially relentlessly attacked by mainstream media outlets and pundits for opposing the war and calling out the role of the United States and NATO...
DSA joined over 100 anti-war organizations before the invasion that rightfully called out this escalating militarism...
In NYC-DSA we’ve worked with local anti-war orgs doing public tablings to hand out flyers, petition politicians, and talk to people about the need for the United States to engage in serious diplomatic efforts.
I gotta be real, that theory list is not inspiring
https://znetwork.org/vision-strategy/
If your theory list includes Bertrand Russell, but no Marx, I’m fuckin stealing something outta your house
How the fuck is a socialist org gonna not say "read Marx." Wtf, I know it can be a little tough but it's the whole basis of your movement otherwise its just a vibe... The reading list reminded me of an intro physics course saying read everything but the intro physics textbook.
Text:
Participatory Vision & Strategy: Real Utopia: Participatory Society for the 21st Century, Chris Spannos
No Bosses: A New Economy for a Better World, Michael Albert
Practical Utopia: Strategies for a Desirable Society, Michael Albert
Democratic Economic Planning, Robin Hahnel
Green Economics: Confronting the Ecological Crisis, Robin Hahnel
Parecomic, Sean Michael Wilson & Carl Thompson
Liberating Theory, Michael Albert, Leslie Cagan, Noam Chomsky, Robin Hahnel, Mel King, Lydia Sargent, Holly Sklar
Women & Revolution, Edited by Lydia Sargent
Vision & Strategy Essentials: Direct Struggle Against Capital: A Peter Kropotkin Anthology
Workers Councils, Pannekoek
Roads to Freedom: Socialism, Anarchism and Syndicalism, Bertrand Russell
Remaking Society: Pathways to a Green Future, Murray Bookchin
Anarcho-Syndicalism, Rudolf Rocker
Workers’ Councils: And The Economics of Self-Managed Society, Cornelius Castoriadis
For Workers’ Power: The Selected Writings of Maurice Brinton
On Anarchism, Noam Chomsky
Government in the Future, Noam Chomsky
A “Green New Deal”?, Tom Wetzel
As We Have Always Done, Leanne Betasamosake Simpson
The Care Manifesto: The Politics of Interdependence, The Care Collective
That reading section makes me go :joker-che: glancing over it, don't even get me started on their "economics" section
Dawg they list a destiny debate with one of their guys as "theory" :logout:
Dalbon argues that military contractors are getting rich off this war. That’s true, but that’s not a compelling argument to reject such spending any more than the fact that the COVID vaccine enriched big pharma was a reason to reject that spending. In both cases, if spending serves a proper social purpose (whether enabling Ukraine’s self-defense or thwarting a pandemic) then the position of socialists has to be to call for either nationalization under democratic control of the relevant industries or taxes on excess profits, not blocking the spending.
dawg look at our socialists dawg we're never getting communism
How the fuck is "Ukraine's self-defense" a "proper social purpose"? Which fucking society are we talking about here exactly, the one with nazis in its military and government who spend years murdering civillians?
:bugs-stalin: social democracy, moderate wing, whatever you know the quote :stalin-tired:
Yeah, the country that doesn't even have public healthcare is definitely going to nationalize the MIC
lol anyways read the article its criticizing:
https://www.dsausa.org/democratic-left/dsa-and-the-war-in-ukraine-toward-a-mass-socialist-anti-war-movement/
It's been absolutely wild seeing shitlibs trying to dunk on the fucking DSA and calling them tankies over this shit. Just the fact that the DSA isn't frothing at the mouth over perpetuating this war has them being labeled a tankie organization.
I don't think he's a Trot, more of an "Orthodox" Marxist a la Kautsky. A Trot would at least think Lenin's work to help create the UkSSR was wholesome-chungus until big spoon man ruined everything and turned the Union into a Red Russian Empire.
I will beat up on Trots, but still work with them. Being a Kautskyist in the modern era is unforgivable lol
