Every discussion we have spawns more discussions so here we go again.
I'm gay and extremely active in the queer community with a lot of friends in activist circles who are trans, genderqueer, bi, pan, and so on. Literally until Femboy Hooters I'd never even come across the term. Here's what I think I see and y'all tell me if I'm off.
Femboys themselves seem to mostly be gay boys, although some are potentially trans eggs waiting to crack, but largely they seem to be comfortable with being gay and cis and male. They all seem to dress up pretty hardcore in feminine clothes and wear make up, but they're not drag queens or genderqueer, or they don't identify as such at least.
What's weird to me (yet still makes sense) is that the vast majority of people attracted to them are straight guys. As one dude said, "Men make better women." So of course there's the overtone of misogyny there. I've been approached before by straight men asking me if I'd be willing to wear panties or take hormones or get a tit job, but I hadn't really thought about it until I saw the preponderance of femboys out there in the world. Now how can I say these guys are straight if they want to fuck a cis man? Pretty simple, they don't see me as one. They see me as a woman who they want to feminize more.
I tried looking at the etymology and history of the term but there's nothing much. I did uncover a trove of femboys who hate trans people and who also differentiate themselves from what they call tr^ps. If you hate trans people your gay card should get revoked automatically so fuck them, but it seems to confirm my suspicion that this seems to have a misogynist bent to it. This may just be a label for the types of gay guys I knew who were very feminine and liked to date straight men, who treated them like garbage and both of them had really conservative personal politics.
But I don't know and I want to learn so tell me what's up, I'm old and I need my porridge.
Why does it seem like mostly straight guys are into femboys?
Because they look fem. It's not really a mystery
Right? I'm a transwoman that's sexually interested in feminine presenting partners, whether they're ciswomen, transwomen, femboys, effeminate nonbinary people...I just like the aesthetics. I presume most cishet men are the same.
True but cis het men are fucking terrified of being perceived as gay ever.
Any time a cishet friend tries to do the "hurr does liking traps make me gay???" thing I just link them this.
lol I got so confused, I thought she was cis and I was like fuck that is some SOLIDARITY I guess
Honeybun, straight men are terrified of being perceived as gay just for drinking Diet Coke. It is a question worth asking.
Being terrified of the social consequences of enjoying something doesn't eliminate the root desire for said thing
No but that's why I'm shocked by their boldness in expressing desire for them, because it's fairly open of them.
because it’s fairly open of them.
No it's not? That's like saying Steve Bannon is "fairly open" because he enjoys Sichuan food.
yeah and my racist uncle openly says he enjoys tandoori
he still hates POC
You're mistaking my use of the term open for like, being open minded. I mean like they're saying it out in the open. That doesn't mean they respect women or femboys or gays or anything. They just wanna fuck 'em.
You’re mistaking my use of the term open for like, being open minded
I was at first, but not after your last comment.
It's no different than saying you like Chinese food. Chynabad nuke Beijing but I'll still eat some har gow
they're saying it out in the open
Mostly on the internet, yeah. Hence not really so open.
But even the ones who are pretty open IRL, it's just like Chinese food.
Also you're not accounting for the submissive/dominant perception of being gay. Straight men don't perceive topping to be anywhere near as gay as bottoming.
Let me take a step back. My confusion is that straight guys are saying they want to fuck guys. Regardless of their feminine look, it's been my experience that straight men are super homophobic and would rather gnaw their own arm off than be seen as gay. So I'm still surprised, despite all of the exceptions, that they're saying they'd fuck a guy.
ok, I get it. I just don't see that as a surprise.
I feel like it's similar to white guys admitting they would sleep with black women. Except that change probably happened sometime in the 70s or something
I read it as a positive sign that things are changing and people are getting more open minded. Then again, I might just be projecting from the straight-ish perspective .
Femboys aren't necessarily gay, my impression is that most are bi and some are straight. As far as the evolution of it, the closest I can think of is the term "sissy" which is a term used in the BDSM community which has a similar meaning to femboy but more... derogatory, I guess? Not malicious, necessarily, but like the term assumes that you're into degrading dirty talk so you wouldn't mind being called that. Femboy is a much better term because it allows you to describe someone who fits into a certain combination of presentation+identity, without forcing them into such a narrow box or having negative connotations. In fact it's kind of an awesome term because it doesn't seem to have the same stigma that is usually associated with men being effeminate. Anecdotally, I have a bi (leaning gay) female friend who told me she loved the term because of it describes the exact kind of guy she's into, and she never really had a word for them before (she used to be active in the kink scene, and said "sissy" always left a bad taste in her mouth).
Anyway yeah there are some femboys who are transphobic or nazis or whatever, for some god-fosaken reason. But there's also nazi furries and nazi bronies and so on. I wouldn't read too much into it. Being a femboy doesn't really say anything about your personality or sexual orientation, it's more like a style, you might say.
I can think of is the term “sissy” which is a term used in the BDSM community
AH. Now this one makes a lot more sense. It also kinda fits into that forced feminization thing I see a lot of.
I’ve been approached before by straight men asking me if I’d be willing to wear panties or take hormones or get a tit job
I'm so sorry you've had to deal with this.
How fucking entitled do you have to be to ask another human to have life altering surgery or go on a regimen of massively psyche and physique altering drugs just so you'd want to fuck them more?
Like seriously what the fuck?
Thank you and @kuremKARmeruk as well, I feel like dudes are trained to get off on dehumanization I guess, and since I list myself as a bottom in some areas they just don't think of me as human, but instead just a hole. I don't know what else to tell you, but thank you. You're really kind.
Men presenting femininely is transgressive and therefore hot.
It's a sex thing, so therefore a lot of people are creeps about it.
Yep you're pretty much right. If you start psychoanalyzing transphobes and predators that's a different rabbit hole entirely.
I don't think otherwise-straight men who want to fuck femboys are straight. They don't see femboys as women, and even if they did, that wouldn't explain why they don't just go after women instead.
I think the "racist femboys" thing is just a product of the fact that some people are racist and being gender non-conforming doesn't stop you from being a racist, and they get signal boosted because the weirdness of the concept attracts both outside attention and trolls who imitate them.
when are we gonna go back to that roman top/bottom dichotomy lmfao. thats where it feels like all this is going towards
Sucking another man's dick: extremely gay
Having another man suck your dick: very very straight
Eating pussy: gay as hell
They don't see them as women, I agree, but these "straight men" as they still categorize themselves are still separating these femboys off as something else. They're not men, and they're not women to them.
As far as I'm concerned it's a "less gay" way to explore the fact they're self hating bisexuals who won't admit they like cute pretty men.
I think there's something to explore in part in the "boys" zone of this. Femboys are always young. See any old femboys? It's a specific age group of somewhat still developing (in maturity) people who have views, politics and self-control in flux. Part of it is the fact this group are extremely focused on appearances and thus you are able to easily push buttons for outcomes with them. They seek and crave attention for their presentation.
As far as I’m concerned it’s a “less gay” way to explore the fact they’re self hating bisexuals who won’t admit they like cute pretty men
I'm in this photo and I don't like it
I'm sorry! I know quite a few and you're all lovely people despite the points on insecurities.
I think as people age people begin to give less of a shit about appearance insecurity which leads to the reason that there aren't any older "femboys". There's a part of it that is, ultimately, growing up for some people. Not in a bad way. I tried being a scene kid with backcombed hair and a myspace with too many ""friends"" at one point. I see a lot of the same mindset I went through in it.
half the term being the word "boy" is a bit of a giveaway. wanting to feel pretty and cute and acting on it generally skews younger already, imo
I've seen a few femboys on the gay hookup sites i use, have not seen one over the age of 25 though
one that I hooked up with spoke nearly exclusively in memes, make of that what you will
he was nice thoughone that I hooked up with spoke nearly exclusively in memes, make of that what you will
I am not surprised.
I think part of it is a natural evolution of the pure hatred terminally online fascists have for women, with a healthy injection of weird anime fascist subculture that every reactionary on Twitter with an anime pfp is into. Likely started out as satire - "women suck so much that the only good women are ones who aren't women at all." Then, inevitably, satire bled into sincerity. That's my take, for what it's worth.
Also /pol/ has a weird thing for people rping as mtf transitioning people who say they're against the supposed degeneracy of the lgbtq movement. That might be a product of satire drift or a partial contributing cause.
I know vanishingly few trans women who haven't been radicalized by the constant shitty treatment of society, but the very few I do know are really stunningly awful. Outside of Blaire White and Caitlyn Jenner, I know a trans woman who is literally a TERF.
I know a trans woman who is literally a TERF.
How does that one work? If they're a TERF, don't they not identify as women? Or are they all "I'm the one real transwoman, all the rest are fakers" or something
Well, basically she just thinks she's an abomination. It's the worst of both worlds. Like she feels like a woman, but she thinks she shouldn't. It breaks my heart.
yep. my trans community is one of dichotomies. 90% are socialists, the others are fash or adjacent. from what ive seen, it tends to be the very late transitioners or wealthy young people that are the fash adjacent ones. obviously not all of them work out that way, but theres a heavy bias.
Experienced a very similar break down in the couple cities I've been active in local trans scenes.
Per usual class plays a big factor in politics, especially in transition as money smooth things over greatly.
If you can flat out go get FFS, BA, labiaplasty you are gonna have a different view than someone who does survival sex work to make slumlord rent.
yep. even being a natural passer can put you on the socialist path because you cant get ridda da dick
it's no longer just a chan thing and has pretty much lost these negative connotations for the most part
femboys are a CIA psyop to make me obsessed with and stressed about my appearance
"femboy" has replaced the t-slur in many anime circles, so when straight dudes say want femboy bussy they're most likely talking about like Astolfo or Felix Argyle
There you two are. So @femboi and Femboy, let me know what I can do to help with this theory.
yeah, femboys are usually just gay men and should just be gay men (or non identifying transfems / transmascs) but theres a lot of people that are applying the term to trans women and its basically no different than shemale in that case
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Craig_scandal
Always existed. "Straight rightist man hates gay people, but fucks gay people, but isn't gay, he promises" with added hyperfeminization aesthetic. A modernized pederasty, really.
Hm yeah but this seems a little different to me. I think Larry Craig was a closeted gay/bi/pan man who got him some strange in stalls. These guys literally are doing a whole M. Butterfly thing with their femboys. It's almost like they hate women so much but are sexually attracted to them that they'll date a man so long as he comes off as a woman but doesn't per se identify as one. The sexual pathology fits, but I don't know if I'm correct with it being a femboy thing or their admirers or all of it.
A trans comrade put it this way
homophobia and transphobia are both constructed on the foundation of misogyny;
homophobia: fucking men is a womanly activity, therefore men who fuck men are acting like women, and women are bad, therefore gay men are bad. |¦| fucking women is a manly activity, therefore women who fuck women are acting like men, therefore reaching above their station and usurping men as the ruling gender
Transphobia: the gender divide is to be seen as immutable law, else it cannot oppress. To seek escape from this arbitrary assignment (whether within or without the confines of the male/female dichotomy; see: binary trans men, binary trans women, or NB people) is to question its validity as a whole, and thus threatens its divisive power. These are also corollaries to the homophobia principles; since gender is to be seen as immutable, (men who would ask to be seen as women ¦ women who would ask to be seen as men) must be treated as exceptionally abhorrent
This is a good point--I've almost always said there's no such thing as homophobia and transphobia, really, they're just twisted spawn of misogyny because I've never met someone who hates gays but is totally okay with women.
Wait wait wait wait wait holy fuck look at this:
At death, the IRS seized almost everything he had. One of the things that the IRS did not seize was a pair of diamond cuff links, given to him by client and friend, Donald Trump. The diamond cuff links were later declared to be fake by an appraiser.
I CANNOT EVEN.
Hm, that doesn't look like Trump in the pic with Cohn, and I'd be surprised if he managed to get a young Trump to fluff him, but I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't mind being seen out with him all the time.
Craig said, "I'm not gay, and I don't cruise, and I don't hit on men. ... I don't go around anywhere hitting on men, and by God, if I did, I wouldn't do it in Boise, Idaho! Jiminy!"
This is different as it's cruising in a public bathroom (though in a different way than normal cruising IIRC) than "femboys."
If you hate trans people your gay card should get revoked automatically
:crazy-frog-trans:
eat cis white gays eat cis white gays eat cis white gays eat cis white gays eat cis white gays eat cis white gays eat cis white gays eat cis white gays eat cis white gays eat cis white gays eat cis white gays eat cis white gays
femboy was its own thing for a long time, i spent a long time on the chans and met men who want to take estrogen but also want to stay men
Is it a chan thing? Because if it is it makes a lot more sense, it's not something I've ever really run into in queer circles. But I don't know that for certain.
met men who want to take estrogen but also want to stay men
What exactly do you mean by "stay men"? Are you referring to their self-identification or the surgical vaginoplasty procedure?
Because I've seen a lot of 4channers bizarrely obsessed with "not getting a penile-to-vagina surgery" or something. I'
I don't know where you're finding so many of these people, but hot damn am I sorry you're ending up having to deal with so many of these people. They sound like a bunch of super toxic fuckups.
And for however much it helps solve your mystery, I've seen femboys on 4chan for ages, but never in IRL gay spaces.
Every hint counts! And thank you yes, there are a lot of toxic fuckups in the world.
i've seen it here and there for some time now but couldn't tell you when exactly. i've always read "extremely straight guy / femboy thing" as a bit, ie "bro, it's not gay if we kiss right? it's just helping a bro out. guys make great girls". so to speak, they're making fun of people that can't accept who they're attracted to, and allow the concept of Straightness As Default to dictate their attraction. (this reading is coming from extremely online trans friends so maybe it's different elsewhere lmao)
I thought it was a bit myself but I was saying elsewhere, I've had straight guys say that to me. Basically they're willing to overlook the dick to have a woman who doesn't have what they perceive to be the baggage of femininity. I don't get it.
