US Senator Lindsey Graham insisted in a TV interview that Israel should drop nuclear bombs on Gaza, where more than 2 million Palestinian civilians, includin...
As yes nuking a territory right next to your own holdings that you intend to occupy after conquering. Surely settlers will want to move into irradiated land and the winds will never blow east towards Tel Aviv!
Fascists aren't even good at doing fascism, Jesus!
it's an important distinction, between Christian-Zionism and Israeli-Zionism that seems to be lost or purposely obscured by democrats:
Israeli-Zionism is settler-colonial and wants to exterminate the indigenous...
Christian-Zionism wants the entire world to burn in a nuclear Holocaust right after Jesus comes back in a magic Ford SUV and drives all 1200 people at their specific megachurch to heaven, where they can eagerly watch everyone else writhe in agony forever.
imagine forming a coalition with the heavily armed and powerful people who pray for your eternal torment.
I've had a couple of frustrating experiences lately trying to explain what a vile, empty mockery of religion Christian Fascists are and to no one's surprise Europeans who have never dealt with them face to face are unable to accept my explanations and insist that i'm mistaken and there must be hidden depths and human sentiment there.
Regardless, I would think even then he'd understand why Israel wouldn't want to nuke something right next to them. Fuck why not advocate for nuking Iran that at least seems a bit more plausible and just as likely to lead to the end times.
Evangelicals don't give a damn about Israel or Jews in general, so I don't think he's really taking their motivations or longevity into account. They (evangelicals) believe the existence of the nation of Israel and its subsequent total destruction are prerequisites for the Christian apocalypse/rapture. That's his only goal. I sorta agree that viewing this through a "fascism" lens isn't really helpful for understanding how people like Lindsey Graham think.
I find it so weird that Evangelicals want to BRING ABOUT the apocalypse. Plenty of other religions believe in an "end time", but you don't see this kind of behavior from Jews, Muslims or even most older Christian sects. They all accept God is a being so powerful and all knowing that understanding his grand plans is impossible and you are just gonna have to accept the end times will come about when God wills it and just live you life as best you can till them.
Evangelicals want to be able to not just predict, but incite the apocalypse. Like what if they think they don't put the leg work in Gods grand plan is gonna get totally derailed and reality will have to keep chugging along a few thousand years past schedule? Gods gonna be PISSED if I don't get the US to nuke Iran, it will fuck up his whole timetable!
Christian Fascism is defined by almost complete lack of theology or scholarship, and for being extremely schismatic to a farcical degree. It's a religion of the id, of the pure libido of the American white suburban aggrieved peitit boug psychopath. It's all about petty greed and spite and personal wish fulfillment.
My hypothesis is that they're afraid of the future and afraid of their own mortality and if they can create the biblical apocalypse then they get to side-step both of those issues by getting teleported directly to heaven in the rapture.
It also runs completely counter to the stated goal of their religion
The bible is pretty clear that the end time is unknowable and until then humans have to be good stewards of the planet. Trying to bring about the apocalypse isn't exactly good stewardship
milennarianism requires the twinge of new developments to get the ball rolling, but once it starts 'you can't expect god to do all the work' and 'we need to prepare' apocalyptic ideology start mixing together & spawning actual activist tendencies. this is where you get people selling all their belongings, long distance pilgrimage/migration, novel social organization, and for people with state power, an exercise of it (usually on vulnerable people).
so in this case evangelicals haven't been constantly on an israel apocalypse fever for the 200 or so years whereever you wana peg 'evangelicalism', but it springs from the simple existence of israel which checks one of the prophetic boxes in their interpretation, and then right now they're having a war & spiked the interest because they think there's a bigger opportunity. a couple years ago in the slow apartheid stage of the conflict, evangelicals didn't have the same excitement. unless Lindsey Graham was banging a proliferation drum for the past decade, his statement demonstrates this.
There is a specific passage in, I believe the post-gospel books of the New Testament (but it could be in the gospels but I'm pretty sure it's in Acts or the Letters) it specifically says "you can't predict the time of the return of the Messiah, it might be tomorrow, it might be in a hundred years. YOU WILL NOT KNOW so you must live by Jesus's teachings right now and always not just in the moments leading up to his return. You aren't going to min/max the apocalypse, yo."
Of course evangelicals don't give a shit about this. Doesn't stop them from trying to force God's hand or whatever. Fucking goons. The rapture isn't even in the fucking Bible, either.
35Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away. 36 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man.…
Wait, if that's the case why does it take massive teams of scientists to develop a nuke? I could duck tape some plutonium to a brick of C4 if I didn't care about getting cancer.
Everything has to be very precisely shaped. You need extremely sophisticated fuses that can go off within miliseconds of each other to ensure the plutonium comes together to reach super-criticality or whatever it's called when the nuclear chain reaction becomes self sustaining. If the time is off even by a tiny amount you get a normal explosion and a liquid jet of super-hot plutonium instead of a nuclear explosion.
That said, the actual nuclear detonation isn't that complicated, it's like high school or early college level physics. Once people figured it all out, once we knew it was possible, the core concepts aren't that hard. These days building a nuke is an engineering challenge, metallurgy and machining. The physics is well understood.
:muppets-bunson: "In the saline solution inside this syringe floats the smallest nuclear bomb known to science! ...At least I hope it is, as it is invisible to the naked eye."
Yes they do, but the US government has never acknowledged that fact bc if they did Israel would be subject to penalties under nonproliferation treaties
What do you mean, "what if?" That's always been the entire point.
Israeli foreign policy is holding the world hostage to demand endless shipments of weapons and support, because they'll irreparably damage the planet if placed into a losing position.
They don't have long range missiles. They can't hit anything outside of europe and the M.E. They're not ending the world, they'll just fuck up parts of it.
Here's a range map for the Jericho IV (YA-5) missile, which entered service in 2019. It's closely related to the Shavit 2 rocket, which can take an 800kg payload to LEO. The Jericho IV has a "rumored" nuclear strike capable range of 11,500km. Here is a Great Circle range map, showing this 11,500km range centered around Tel Aviv.
Show
Israel also has 5 Dolphin-class submarines, each equipped with a 200 kiloton nuclear warhead with a 1500km range, providing an offshore second-strike capability or which could be used as part of the Samson option.
The entirety of the Israeli nuclear program is considered "rumored" despite hard data on specifications existing, so it's basically the one and only time where you can assume rumored information is correct.
Where are you getting the "rumored" range on that new jericho from? Idk if its an Intercontinental, and not just a ballstic missile? I thought they didn't have an icbm program, but maybe not?
I thought they didn't have an icbm program, but maybe not?
It should be general knowledge at this point that Israel's MO is basically to tell you "no we're not doing this" while absolutely doing it and then all but openly bragging about it in Hebrew-language media.
General Itzhak Ben-Israel, former head of Maf'at (Israeli Directorate of Defense, Research and Development) said of the then in-development 3 stage extended range variant of the Jericho III "Everybody can do the mathematics... we can reach with a rocket engine to every point in the world." This three stage variant capable of 11,500km is the Jericho IV missile. That CRS Missile Survey document gives information on the Jericho III and technically the Jericho IV as the 3 stage version was spun off into that version.
I can't really give you harder evidence than a direct US government report that covers the missile in question, it's not like Israel (or anyone else) is just publishing the full spec sheets for civilians to peruse or anything. I'll admit that it does suck that the best documentation available on this is 20 years old, but feel free to submit a FOIA request.
We also don't really know how a modern nuclear attack would play out. We have simulations but it's not an easy thing to simulate and the nature of nuclear attacks have changed a lot since the 40's
it's funny how they tried to make us quake in fear over the threat of "rouge states" (aka North Korea, Iran, once Iraq, libya, now russia) all of them, besides Russia, don't have the capability of ending civilization and unlike Russia, dont have a policy specifically to do it as a big "fuck you" to the rest of the world if they don't get their way
i'm seriously, 100% scared deep in my bones israel will do a Samson-option like strike if they undergo a sudden internal collapse, which at this point is far more likely then the U.S. the U.S., while not having this policy, i do believe would absolutely do the same thing which is why i am far more leery about calls for civil war or balkanization because i fear for the rest of the world
but israel keeps me up at night. if the concept of a true "rouge state" to the international order or whatever was real every nation on earth would be forming a coalition to invade and pacify israel and use a massive combined special operations mission to secure the nukes and kill/capature all their political and military leadership. like a joint global U.N. military operation the likes the world has never seen. blockades, deployment of every anti-missile weapon system known to man, total communicaiton blackouts, and possibly even preemptive nuclear decapitation strikes with stealth cruise missiles.
whatever it takes. we unite against this threat.
but instead the west pretends this nation with 300+ secret fission-fusion weapons is moral and rational
sometimes i wonder if there is a more "realist" minority contingent in the U.S. military-political blob that is letting israel do whatever it wants and keeps them placated not out of ideological commitment to zionist but knowing they have a rabid and violent animal on a rusting chain and know they can do nothing to stop it
Apparently the Reagan admin was surprised, after the cccp was destroyed, to find that the Soviets actually believed things the president of the us said in public regarding us foreign policy. I guess it just never occured to a bunch of petit boug christian fascist frauds that anyone would actually believe public statements from politicians.
I hate this guy, and they give this guy plenty of TV time. An American politician goes on mainstream news media talking about nuclear weapons on people. This is the type of personalities that trustworthy mainstream news media puts on air all the time. I think the American population are undergoing a wide psychological operation.
As yes nuking a territory right next to your own holdings that you intend to occupy after conquering. Surely settlers will want to move into irradiated land and the winds will never blow east towards Tel Aviv!
Fascists aren't even good at doing fascism, Jesus!
You misunderstand. He's not trying to do fascism, he's a member of the evangelical Christian doomsday cult cheering for the apocalypse.
it's an important distinction, between Christian-Zionism and Israeli-Zionism that seems to be lost or purposely obscured by democrats:
imagine forming a coalition with the heavily armed and powerful people who pray for your eternal torment.
I've had a couple of frustrating experiences lately trying to explain what a vile, empty mockery of religion Christian Fascists are and to no one's surprise Europeans who have never dealt with them face to face are unable to accept my explanations and insist that i'm mistaken and there must be hidden depths and human sentiment there.
Lol, lmao
I... would still consider that fascism.
Regardless, I would think even then he'd understand why Israel wouldn't want to nuke something right next to them. Fuck why not advocate for nuking Iran that at least seems a bit more plausible and just as likely to lead to the end times.
Evangelicals don't give a damn about Israel or Jews in general, so I don't think he's really taking their motivations or longevity into account. They (evangelicals) believe the existence of the nation of Israel and its subsequent total destruction are prerequisites for the Christian apocalypse/rapture. That's his only goal. I sorta agree that viewing this through a "fascism" lens isn't really helpful for understanding how people like Lindsey Graham think.
I find it so weird that Evangelicals want to BRING ABOUT the apocalypse. Plenty of other religions believe in an "end time", but you don't see this kind of behavior from Jews, Muslims or even most older Christian sects. They all accept God is a being so powerful and all knowing that understanding his grand plans is impossible and you are just gonna have to accept the end times will come about when God wills it and just live you life as best you can till them.
Evangelicals want to be able to not just predict, but incite the apocalypse. Like what if they think they don't put the leg work in Gods grand plan is gonna get totally derailed and reality will have to keep chugging along a few thousand years past schedule? Gods gonna be PISSED if I don't get the US to nuke Iran, it will fuck up his whole timetable!
Christian Fascism is defined by almost complete lack of theology or scholarship, and for being extremely schismatic to a farcical degree. It's a religion of the id, of the pure libido of the American white suburban aggrieved peitit boug psychopath. It's all about petty greed and spite and personal wish fulfillment.
My hypothesis is that they're afraid of the future and afraid of their own mortality and if they can create the biblical apocalypse then they get to side-step both of those issues by getting teleported directly to heaven in the rapture.
It also runs completely counter to the stated goal of their religion
The bible is pretty clear that the end time is unknowable and until then humans have to be good stewards of the planet. Trying to bring about the apocalypse isn't exactly good stewardship
milennarianism requires the twinge of new developments to get the ball rolling, but once it starts 'you can't expect god to do all the work' and 'we need to prepare' apocalyptic ideology start mixing together & spawning actual activist tendencies. this is where you get people selling all their belongings, long distance pilgrimage/migration, novel social organization, and for people with state power, an exercise of it (usually on vulnerable people).
so in this case evangelicals haven't been constantly on an israel apocalypse fever for the 200 or so years whereever you wana peg 'evangelicalism', but it springs from the simple existence of israel which checks one of the prophetic boxes in their interpretation, and then right now they're having a war & spiked the interest because they think there's a bigger opportunity. a couple years ago in the slow apartheid stage of the conflict, evangelicals didn't have the same excitement. unless Lindsey Graham was banging a proliferation drum for the past decade, his statement demonstrates this.
There is a specific passage in, I believe the post-gospel books of the New Testament (but it could be in the gospels but I'm pretty sure it's in Acts or the Letters) it specifically says "you can't predict the time of the return of the Messiah, it might be tomorrow, it might be in a hundred years. YOU WILL NOT KNOW so you must live by Jesus's teachings right now and always not just in the moments leading up to his return. You aren't going to min/max the apocalypse, yo."
Of course evangelicals don't give a shit about this. Doesn't stop them from trying to force God's hand or whatever. Fucking goons. The rapture isn't even in the fucking Bible, either.
Appreciate the exact quote, thanks for digging that up
I think they're trying to usher in the apocalypse in order to validate their own fucked up worldview.
They do that too
He did: https://news.antiwar.com/2023/12/28/sen-lindsey-graham-calls-for-us-to-blow-parts-of-iran-off-the-map/
Palestinians are just an inconvenience.
/s
I doubt he even believes that Christofascist line.
I figure he just promotes it for his base.
Nuke Lindsey instead
Would it be possible to make a nuke small enough to kill just one person
Polonium?
Doesn't really explode tho
Polonium and a grenade
Poor man's ultra-mini DIY nuke.
I know it's a very difficult DIY project. But once you've got the polonium - you've got a stew going.
Comically tiny nuke.
That's as much a matter of isolating the person as shrinking the yield
World's Smallest Nuclear Bomb from MDK
I'm willing to support the senator being used as a test subject to determine if it's possible
Well, a nuke is a sphere of c4 wrappy around a couple of pieces of plutonium, so if we're not to hung up on the nuclear explosion part then yes.
Wait, if that's the case why does it take massive teams of scientists to develop a nuke? I could duck tape some plutonium to a brick of C4 if I didn't care about getting cancer.
Everything has to be very precisely shaped. You need extremely sophisticated fuses that can go off within miliseconds of each other to ensure the plutonium comes together to reach super-criticality or whatever it's called when the nuclear chain reaction becomes self sustaining. If the time is off even by a tiny amount you get a normal explosion and a liquid jet of super-hot plutonium instead of a nuclear explosion.
That said, the actual nuclear detonation isn't that complicated, it's like high school or early college level physics. Once people figured it all out, once we knew it was possible, the core concepts aren't that hard. These days building a nuke is an engineering challenge, metallurgy and machining. The physics is well understood.
Ohhh look at the nerd here with their nerd facts!
the whole time the mythbusters were just a few kilos of fissionable material away from being the worlds smallest nuclear armed state
Give Lindsey Graham a demon core
Hit him with the Demon Flail
God damnit I was just about to post that
Fastest fingers in the west
:muppets-bunson: "In the saline solution inside this syringe floats the smallest nuclear bomb known to science! ...At least I hope it is, as it is invisible to the naked eye."
Any existing nuclear weapon would work for that, just drop it on him without detonating it.
Then it'd be functioning as a bullet, not a nuke
More of an anvil, really.
Straight up his bum hole.
lindsey doesn't understand how real estate works
I would simply sell my irradiated beach front property
why don't we have :fucking-aquaman:
this is loss
To who, Lindsey, the fucking radroaches??
irradiated beach front properties.
all palestinian violence against israel is self-defense.
But Israel doesn't have nukes :thonk:
Edit: just watched the clip, graham says we should "give them the bombs they need to win this war"
What a vile pig person
They do have nukes though?
Yes they do, but the US government has never acknowledged that fact bc if they did Israel would be subject to penalties under nonproliferation treaties
There's a true anon episode on it, rogue state
Side note, would they really be subject to ANY penalties?
I keep hearing about these agreements these nations have signed and Never Ever Ever Ever EVER see any consequences of any impact
Oh you stole 100m dollars from your employees? 6.2m dollar fine type head ass shit
No, probably not
What if the samson option involves using nukes on european or american cities out of spite
What do you mean, "what if?" That's always been the entire point.
Israeli foreign policy is holding the world hostage to demand endless shipments of weapons and support, because they'll irreparably damage the planet if placed into a losing position.
They don't have long range missiles. They can't hit anything outside of europe and the M.E. They're not ending the world, they'll just fuck up parts of it.
Here's a range map for the Jericho IV (YA-5) missile, which entered service in 2019. It's closely related to the Shavit 2 rocket, which can take an 800kg payload to LEO. The Jericho IV has a "rumored" nuclear strike capable range of 11,500km. Here is a Great Circle range map, showing this 11,500km range centered around Tel Aviv.
Israel also has 5 Dolphin-class submarines, each equipped with a 200 kiloton nuclear warhead with a 1500km range, providing an offshore second-strike capability or which could be used as part of the Samson option.
The entirety of the Israeli nuclear program is considered "rumored" despite hard data on specifications existing, so it's basically the one and only time where you can assume rumored information is correct.
Source: 2005 Congressional Research Service Missile Survey report and like, constant bragging from Israeli military brass about this.
Where are you getting the "rumored" range on that new jericho from? Idk if its an Intercontinental, and not just a ballstic missile? I thought they didn't have an icbm program, but maybe not?
It should be general knowledge at this point that Israel's MO is basically to tell you "no we're not doing this" while absolutely doing it and then all but openly bragging about it in Hebrew-language media.
General Itzhak Ben-Israel, former head of Maf'at (Israeli Directorate of Defense, Research and Development) said of the then in-development 3 stage extended range variant of the Jericho III "Everybody can do the mathematics... we can reach with a rocket engine to every point in the world." This three stage variant capable of 11,500km is the Jericho IV missile. That CRS Missile Survey document gives information on the Jericho III and technically the Jericho IV as the 3 stage version was spun off into that version.
I can't really give you harder evidence than a direct US government report that covers the missile in question, it's not like Israel (or anyone else) is just publishing the full spec sheets for civilians to peruse or anything. I'll admit that it does suck that the best documentation available on this is 20 years old, but feel free to submit a FOIA request.
Fair enough. Thanks :)
We also don't really know how a modern nuclear attack would play out. We have simulations but it's not an easy thing to simulate and the nature of nuclear attacks have changed a lot since the 40's
Irreparably damage the NATO bloc, maybe.
I thought that was the point, if Israel falls so does the fucking world
it's funny how they tried to make us quake in fear over the threat of "rouge states" (aka North Korea, Iran, once Iraq, libya, now russia) all of them, besides Russia, don't have the capability of ending civilization and unlike Russia, dont have a policy specifically to do it as a big "fuck you" to the rest of the world if they don't get their way
i'm seriously, 100% scared deep in my bones israel will do a Samson-option like strike if they undergo a sudden internal collapse, which at this point is far more likely then the U.S. the U.S., while not having this policy, i do believe would absolutely do the same thing which is why i am far more leery about calls for civil war or balkanization because i fear for the rest of the world
but israel keeps me up at night. if the concept of a true "rouge state" to the international order or whatever was real every nation on earth would be forming a coalition to invade and pacify israel and use a massive combined special operations mission to secure the nukes and kill/capature all their political and military leadership. like a joint global U.N. military operation the likes the world has never seen. blockades, deployment of every anti-missile weapon system known to man, total communicaiton blackouts, and possibly even preemptive nuclear decapitation strikes with stealth cruise missiles.
whatever it takes. we unite against this threat.
but instead the west pretends this nation with 300+ secret fission-fusion weapons is moral and rational
sometimes i wonder if there is a more "realist" minority contingent in the U.S. military-political blob that is letting israel do whatever it wants and keeps them placated not out of ideological commitment to zionist but knowing they have a rabid and violent animal on a rusting chain and know they can do nothing to stop it
It's Rogue, rouge means red, "Khmer Rouge"
start referring to our state designated socialist enemies as "red states" and watch libs be like "wait are we talking about trump country?"
That's another meaning I've been opened to.... (tbh, tho, I don't wanna associated Trump-color U.S states with good AES nation-states)
Doest this man under the implications of what he is suggesting?
He's probably posturing but who even knows with Graham? There aren't words for someone whose role in society is as corossive as that man.
Trouble is, he might be …but some daft arse will take it seriously.
Apparently the Reagan admin was surprised, after the cccp was destroyed, to find that the Soviets actually believed things the president of the us said in public regarding us foreign policy. I guess it just never occured to a bunch of petit boug christian fascist frauds that anyone would actually believe public statements from politicians.
You’ve got Thatcher to thank for Reagan. My apologies.
We proved that people fall for what politicians say with Brexit. It’s like we learn our lessons.
He has said stuff on TV nearly as bad as this before. I believe he's advocated for nuking Iran. He's one of the worst neocons in Washington.
"Nuke Palestine!"
This ghoul is just yearning to stay relevant.
Maybe someone should do that to Lindsey Graham
DEATH TO AMERICA
Broke: US politician's call to nuke Gaza
Woke: Israeli politician's call to nuke Gaza
I hate this guy, and they give this guy plenty of TV time. An American politician goes on mainstream news media talking about nuclear weapons on people. This is the type of personalities that trustworthy mainstream news media puts on air all the time. I think the American population are undergoing a wide psychological operation.
this is not a way to destroy israel that I support