CBC article https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-court-of-appeal-mk-ultra-1.6796756

  • Huldra [they/them, it/its]
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    2 years ago

    I don't think they mention this by name in the article but if you want to read more about what this was, the name of the technique was "psychic driving" and "depatterning".

    CW for medical torture if you do go on to read more about it, its all essentially just fancy ways to fuck someones brain and mental health up so bad that in theory, their personality would be "wiped clean" and could then be built up again to the wishes of the government.

    The first part worked very well but then it turned out you cant just hook a keyboard up to a person and start putting in commands and programs.

    • Coca_Cola_but_Commie [he/him]
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      2 years ago

      I was listening to Blowback Season 2 yesterday and I learned that one of Jack Ruby’s doctors was a part of MKULTRA when he treated Ruby, and that after treatment began Ruby was apparently driven insane.

      • Huldra [they/them, it/its]
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        edit-2
        2 years ago

        Apparently so, though the timelines seem a bit muddled.

        Jolly West(That guy) apparently only met him after he was sentenced to death for the Oswald assassination, but during the trial and before the sentencing, a separate psychiatrist with no obvious CIA connections testified that he believed that Ruby shot Oswald while in a psychotic episode, and predicted that he could become "flagrantly psychotic."

        Though this being a guy called by the defense, its possible he was bullshitting(also he was asked, by the defense, if Jack Ruby was a "latent homosexual" and basically answered "maybe, but thats not important to the trial".)

        Im trying to read a bit more on exactly how long Ruby was in contact with Jolly West and how long they were isolated for, for as good as the CIA became at fucking people up idk if they would have just a single syringe to instantly trigger insanity in someone, for example.

        Edit: Its not that easy to find much original documentation of the time.

        This website at least appears to have the version of the story that Jolly West told, which is he arrived to a Jack Ruby that had severely deteriorated in the span of a couple of weeks, and who had started self harming before he even arrived.

        In an ideal world there would be documentation from the jail or the psychs that invited West to cross check this with, but apparently that either doesnt exist or isnt uploaded.

        This is the story that the literal CIA brain-fuck doctor wrote up, so obviously be critical about it, but its at least a primary source to read.

        Here is also the NYT reporting on the separate psych testifying a month an a half earlier about Ruby having experienced temporary psychosis, and being in danger of deteroriating.

        Edit 2: Actually, I found a PDF of a newspaper article that has the sheriff tell the story of Ruby ramming his head into the wall before the arrival of Jolly West, as well as ripping his clothing into strips, potentially for a noose.

        • Huldra [they/them, it/its]
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          2 years ago

          Summary: A psychiatrist testifying for the defense claimed Jack Ruby was seriously unstable, had shot Oswald while in a psychotic episode, and could potentially deterioriate further if put under stress like being called as a witness. Jack Ruby would then be sentenced to death after this.

          Roughly a month afterwards CIA and MKUltra connected psychiatrist Jolly West is called in to examine Ruby again as part of his appeal, Ruby has reportedly both tried to smash his head into the wall and to tear his clothes into materials for a noose on the morning before West arrives to examine him. This is reported both in Wests account and local papers.

          West states in his own documents that he suggests hypnosis and sodium penthothal as part of interrogating him about the murder, but apparently abandons or fails to mention ever attempting that after seeing the state of Ruby, who is supposedly openly ranting that the US government is conducting pogroms against Jews as retaliation for his involvement, and claims to have seen his own brother immolated outside of jail, as well as hearing jews being tortured in adjacent rooms or on floors below him.

          This doesnt seem to have been reported elsewhere, with West refusing to share any of these findings when asked by the same paper that reported Rubys self harm attempt, the document was apparently notarized on the same day but I frankly just dont know enough about the process of notarization to judge how legitimizing that is.

          Jack Ruby would later repeat his belief that Jewish people were being exterminated in the US to the Warren commission.

          So idk, there seems to be evidence suggesting he was legitimately in a bad mental state before being visited by a literal MKUltra doctor, but on the other hand he was visited by a literal MKUltra doctor, who is the first to report that he was having large scale delusions and hallucinations.

      • egg1916 [she/her]
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        2 years ago

        I remember in S2 the quote of Jack Boobey the day of the assassination something like "ready for the fireworks?" He was definitely in the know so it would make sense to "wipe" his brain (torture him) to remove any credibility should he say anything

    • Huldra [they/them, it/its]
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      2 years ago

      It's only that specific because thats the time period that this specific lawsuit targets, and the law to establish a way to sue foreign governments was only written in the 1980s.

      Foreign governments would(under the US interpretation of the law) not be able to be sued for events in the 70s, or 10s-30s either.

      • ClimateChangeAnxiety [he/him, they/them]
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        edit-2
        2 years ago

        Ah so it’s just a weird way of writing that sentence. Got it. Probably should’ve read further.

        Real question: Who in their right mind would write the law allowing your citizens to sue foreign governments for fucking them over and NOT have it work retroactively? Typically that’s the kind of law that comes AFTER and issue and you’d need it to be retroactive to fix whatever prompted the law in the first place.

  • MF_COOM [he/him]
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    2 years ago

    If anyone wants to know more about MKULTRA in Quebec, CBC did a decent podcast series called "Brainwashed" if you don't mind NPR whispervoice describing crimes against humanity

    • FloridaBoi [he/him]
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      2 years ago

      The Shock Doctrine starts off with Cameron's experiments at McGill University. I'd check it out