Like i have little interest in changing presentation and definitly no interest in hormones, but i do have some degree of discomfort with the concept of masculinity
Totally. My gender is long red beard. If that’s “man” in someone’s eyes, fine.
I felt the same way a few years ago. I'm on hormones now. Ain't it funny how time slips away?
I mean, thats cool for you, but I'm 200% confident that hormones are not for me. The only effect that MIGHt appeal is not losing my hair but I have good hair genes (or I'm low t lol idk ive never been tested for that) and dont have to worry about that lol. Ive looked through the effects of estrogen and nothing appeals to me and most of it activly sounds bad for me. I like my body hair and facial hair for example.
The meme definitly applies. That shit isnt changing for me.
That seems like a well thought out decision. The idea that all nonbinary people are just binary trans on the pipeline can be a harmful stereotype, even if it is in fact true for some. I'm happy for you that you've found a gender that represents who you are.
I've got a buddy who went as far as going on hormones for a time because he hated "masculinity" [in the sense of behavior and patriarchy, not presentation] and wanted to do whatever he could to get away from it. Ultimately, he decided that it made sense to keep identifying as male but support on all avenues the destruction of patriarchy. I never took hormones, but he and I have some feelings in common (though I seem to have more "dysphoria"* than he does) and my conclusion is very similar to his. I usually stay out of threads on this comm because I'm cis, but in this case I thought it was worth saying something because it reminded me a lot of cases I know well. I feel like for a lot of progressive AMABs, whether they become NB or not is basically a question of how deeply ingrained certain perspectives on "what a man is" are for them.
*in scare quotes to indicate the shakiness of my case, not the concept itself
For a long time, I just assumed by discomfort with a male identity was just a dislike of toxic masculinity in particular. So, I said things like "I don't identify as a man, but I'm technically cis." Even when I acknowledged I wasn't cis, I still didn't consider myself trans because, at the time, I had no intentions of transitioning in any way.
Anyways, presentation isn't gender, there is no minimum amount of suffering required to be trans, you don't need any sort of medical treatment to be trans, and trans isn't short for transition. If you don't jive with your agab, then you're free to use the label.
Funnily, our mom seemed to think my brother was questioning his gender when he brought up the topic of gender with her (because I had come out to him) and she say things like "See Bob? He's a good man. You don't have to be like those other bad examples of men to be one" to him to try to convince him that he was cis.
Not trying to tell you how you should identify though. None of my business.
Not trying to tell you how you should identify though. None of my business.
No worries, I appreciate you sharing too
Join the club! I've never really been completely comfortable with being referred to as a man or described as "manly" and such. So I finally got over my social programming and I'm NB now. I haven't really changed much other than being more open about being queer and looking to connect with other queer people instead of being an introverted self-hating goblin. I'm also not interested in hormones but I will say I hate shaving and would like get that shit lasered so I never have to do it again. Otherwise, I'm still me, just with more happiness and acceptance of myself.
Even body and facial hair are totally ok with me! I actually have a big beard right now and like it. Though i should get it trimmed soon lol.
Im probably not switchingg entirly to they/them, just including it as an option. The identity ive been considering is demiman because like, I feel MOSTLY comfortable with masculinity but not the full thing if that makes sense.
I urge you to explore the similar possibility that you're agender. I present pretty masculinely but looking at the difference between enby and agender, and learning a lot about sex and gender, I've realized that I more just feel like gender "isn't for me" about masculinity over gendering somewhere outside the binary.
I know you think about the genders much and have lovely friends of all genders, just wanted to mention the kind of like nb but actually just no gender possibility.
I will look into it but the label that feels comfiest to me in theory is demiman.
Which is still under the nonbinary umbrella.
Oh yeah, you explore what feels like you, just wanted to throw out the possibility. I'm glad you feel comfortable figuring it out.
I just really identified with your post.
Technically "half" but people mean it to just mean like "partially" or in my case its more like "mostly".
Okay, cool. I thought it meant something close to "almost" from how I've seen the word "demigod" be used. But then I saw the word "demisexual" and second guessed myself.
I've seen some define demi to mean mostly man and partly something else and libramasc to mean mostly agender but partly man. But I think you could also distinguish them as both just meaning partly man and libra specifically implying the other part is agender while demi just leaves it open to what the other part(s) is(are)?
Still all under the NB umbrella. And if the other parts of demi include agender, then bother can be under the agender umbrella as well.
Wouldn't agender still fall under non-binary since it's also outside of the binary? Isnt NB just the umbrella term for everything that isn't male/female?
Yeah I suppose it would be in that literal sense non (not) binary. But my experience of how most people use the term nonbinary is to describe themselves as still experiencing an internal sense of gender that simply does not align with a male or female identity. And I think that makes sense why there are many nonbinary people who are also trans. I personally feel that gender is something that was extrinsically placed on me. I dont have any desire to transition not because I feel like being a woman would be dysphoric for me but because I don't desire to gender at all.
NB is a big umbrella with a lot of people who really don't want to be put into boxes (not that there aren't lots of binary people also in that camp: people shouldn't try to shove each other into narrow boxes regardless). I think the autistic meme that could be adapted to NBs is "if you've met an NB, you've met one NB."
OTOH, if using the label leads to making assumptions about you that you don't want, it makes sense to avoid it. Labels should be for your benefit, not detriment.
Legit. I'm agender, but also accept the non-binary and trans labels. It's like an Euler diagram of concentric circles for me, though I understand others see the overlaps differently.
I'm not likely to go on hormones or change my gender presentation. I like my body. It's practical and my clothes fit it. I also hate clothes shopping, so getting a whole new wardrobe for a body whose shape I'm uncertain of sounds like a nightmare. I have enough problems bra shopping.
I am changing my name to be less gendered, and that feels right. I also use they/she at work, and advocate for trans issues when they come up.
