Oh boy, please forgive me for the struggle sessions I may cause as I pursue a better world.
Labeling your leftist ideology after previous revolutionary leaders(ML, stalinists, maoists, trots, whatever the fuck) is a waste of time and divides us further. If a leftist ideology leads some form of revolution in the future it will likely be an amalgamation of selected old principles and new ideas that will generate a new label (x-ists) that will be more relevant. Just call yourself a communist or an anarchist (or an-com), and know what you believe in.
I don't give a fuck about what dead fucking historical fuckers did or did not do. No discussion about the Holodomor will lead to a consensus. We live in a post-truth society and the bourgeois can afford as many scholars/think-tanks as they want. Arguing about previous communists regimes on the internet is not the best use of your time. Your 8 paragraph primary source cited essay will never convince a chud and wastes your time and energy. If someone wants to debate you about the history of some communist nation or character tell them to pound sand and argue the disparities of current material conditions. I'm not telling you to not study history, but stop having the same arguments over and over.
Everyone on this site is like "Lol don't vote for Biden it's just as bad as Trump". Both of these guys may not let us vote in the future or round us up in camps but one of them is already showing signs of authoritarianism. American leftists aren't ready for a revolution. We have no vanguard, and 80% of your local DSA doesn't even own a gun. I don't want to vote for Biden either because I'm sick of the DNC bullshit of "lesser of two evils", but honestly a biden victory buys us more time. If you live in a deeply red state, fuck it vote PSL or Green (I'm in that boat and will cast my vote in your honor for La Riva), but honestly harm reduction is a practical philosophy that we should consider. We are not ready for fight, and the absolute best case scenario is a PMC-led neoliberal victory that will cost thousands of lives and induce incredible suffering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54Ukt9LrvhQ
Edit: The ensuing struggle session from this post proving my first point would be funny if it wasn't so goddamn sad for our cause
American leftists aren’t ready for a revolution. We have no vanguard, and 80% of your local DSA doesn’t even own a gun. I don’t want to vote for Biden either because I’m sick of the DNC bullshit of “lesser of two evils”, but honestly a biden victory buys us more time.
Oh look the Bidenist-Revisionist is here to tell us that Marxism-Leninism is obsolete despite 100% of historical successful revolutions and 100% of existing Socialist States being Marxist-Leninist
You can have your own hot take, just don't be an asshole to someone else's hot take in a hot take thread. The purpose of a hot take thread is to get people to air ideas they may not be 100% confident in and have the community sound them out. Snippy replies do nothing but frustrate that purpose; again, real wrecker shit.
Oh wow everyone in here has the super original take that actually Marxism is obsolete and we need a new reformist type of socialism! Definitely not the same horseshit we have been hearing from the western chauvinist left for the past 200 years that has made them a joke in the global communist community and never have a single success.
I’m sorry your civility politics is more important to you than not repeating revisionist tropes over and over ad Infinitum
Oh wow everyone in here has the super original take
If a bunch of people are saying the same thing, maybe you should honestly address that instead of sarcastically dismissing it. If a bunch of people are downbearing you and telling you you're acting like a wrecker, maybe you should take a step back and do some self-crit.
A million western succs have made this same argument for 200 years. They have defeated themselves by being continuously useless and wrong and never winning
So explain to the people who are broadly on your side why they should agree with you without being a smug asshole about it. Condescendingly pissing people off instead of putting in the effort to get them on board is a hallmark of liberalism, and is a big reason why everyone hates libs.
There are tons of perfectly polite Marxists, I am not one of them. Some people require bullying and mockery of they will stay stuck in their ways.
Succs and ultras that parrot century old utopian tropes are even more outdated than Marxists, and maybe they require sufficient mockery before they realize they are a meme
The bare minimum standard of "don't be a huge asshole at the drop of a hat to people you ostensibly want to organize with" is not tone policing.
No one likes your type of asshole. No one wants to be around your type of asshole. Your type of asshole makes people lose interest and stop showing up. It doesn't matter how right you think you are, because if you can't do the bare minimum of getting along with fellow leftists you're fucking useless.
I don't think that is a fair summary of my points, nor what I said.
The science is solid, I wouldn't be here if it wasn't. Trotsky and Lenin literally fought a revolution together. Modern leftists who use their titles can't sit in the same room. As long as this is the case, we can't win.
Trotsky and Lenin fought together because Trotsky was a Marxist and a Leninist. It wasn’t until later that Trotsky began his campaign of revisionism and betrayal
You made me create an account to respond to this. I'm very tired of online MLs holding a monopoly on the claim of "all historical successful revolutions are ML revolutions." Not only is this claim just untrue, the one that follows it is laughably sad, because ML is also responsible for 100% of degenerated worker states. The October Revolution wasnt ML so dont even pretend you get that one either. Sandals is correct with this take. ML hasnt done anything in the 21st century, its frankly a bastardization of Marx. All tendencies are just following loosely in what some guy said, but the material conditions they were in are vastly different than the ones we are in. Online MLs remind me of preachy evangelicals, always saying "comrade" or preaching down on you while they have the audacity to support Stalin as a great theorist. "the law of value and commodity production continues into communism." What utter shit. Rant over.
Im not a trot but go off. Lenin wasnt a "Leninist", he was a Marxist. God MLs are allergic to reading. Being proud of a degenerated worker state is peak cope and LARP. You didnt do anything in the various peasant revolutions around the world. Stop larping on the internet for 2 god damn minutes
"i can only categorize opinions i dislike as the opinions of various tendencies i disagree with." Im not here for a flame war. Im not a trot, i dont agree with perm rev, im not an ML, im not anything.
Also I am not alone. I have a billion communists throughout the world on my side. I am participating in the real communist movement. It’s you who is alone
I am a Marxist. Its just i dont like labeling myself. Clearly youre more concerned with appearances than anything else. I hope you get around to reading Marx some time :)
Marxists should be open and clear with labeling themselves and their position. Your aversion to labels is a personal distaste, not a political program or stance.
You are just a distorter too ashamed by actual existing socialism (because you believe rightwing lies to some extent) and thus try to hide and obscure your beliefs.
man youre so obviously a wrecker its insane. "actual existing socialism" MLs can barely identify capitalism of course they cant identify socialism. Read some books man, i promise you you can understand Marxism, its not that advanced.
The only wreckers in here are the ones trying to slowly suffocate Marxism of all its revolutionary ideals and replace them with reformist Biden bullshit
I mean yeah i dont agree with that part at all. Electoralism is blatantly a dead end. See, we have common ground. I was less defending him and more attacking your ML= successful socialist revolution.
Ok and the only successful revolutions in history have been Marxist parties using Democratic Centralism... so if electoralism isn’t valid and we have to have a revolution....
You are so fucking close but your brain is still poisoned with rightwing lies about AES states
Look, until you square away things like the law of value and commodity production still being in operation of "actually existing socialist states" then im not on board with your idea of "socialism" aka state capitalism. DAE leftcom infantile. Get a new response. Lenin was talking about Dutch-German leftcoms. Wasnt talking about Bordiga.
Ultra bullshit. There will be markets and commodities as long as there are capitalists and imperialists. Only one the majority of the world has gone socialist can the transition to higher stage communism begin.
The conditions of the USSR and PRC have not been adequate to move to communism. FFS read Lenin
Yes, which has not yet occurred so your whining about Stalin not abolishing the commodity form are detached from reality and are just utopian ramblings of wreckers and ultras
Damn glad the western dengoid has arrived. Read some theory. I love when Deng busted the communes and turned all the peasants into Nike shoe slaves! That was epic socialism! Get real.
imagine thinking the US is going to lead the way with communism. Youre detached from reality if you think any movement will get off the ground in the US. Only way is if the US is continually destabilized and cant meddle in the affairs of other nations for a while. So thank you for telling me you totally know me and my ideas. Chapos dont read theory, its painfully clear.
yeah i agree with your first point. Thats where we have common ground. But CPC raising living standards isnt socialism. It just isnt. Socialism isnt worker enrichment, its the abolition of classes. So i totally understand where youre coming from with the second point. Of course lifting people out of poverty is good, but dont confuse it with socialism/communism.
Oh boy, please forgive me for the struggle sessions I may cause as I pursue a better world.
Labeling your leftist ideology after previous revolutionary leaders(ML, stalinists, maoists, trots, whatever the fuck) is a waste of time and divides us further. If a leftist ideology leads some form of revolution in the future it will likely be an amalgamation of selected old principles and new ideas that will generate a new label (x-ists) that will be more relevant. Just call yourself a communist or an anarchist (or an-com), and know what you believe in.
I don't give a fuck about what dead fucking historical fuckers did or did not do. No discussion about the Holodomor will lead to a consensus. We live in a post-truth society and the bourgeois can afford as many scholars/think-tanks as they want. Arguing about previous communists regimes on the internet is not the best use of your time. Your 8 paragraph primary source cited essay will never convince a chud and wastes your time and energy. If someone wants to debate you about the history of some communist nation or character tell them to pound sand and argue the disparities of current material conditions. I'm not telling you to not study history, but stop having the same arguments over and over.
Everyone on this site is like "Lol don't vote for Biden it's just as bad as Trump". Both of these guys may not let us vote in the future or round us up in camps but one of them is already showing signs of authoritarianism. American leftists aren't ready for a revolution. We have no vanguard, and 80% of your local DSA doesn't even own a gun. I don't want to vote for Biden either because I'm sick of the DNC bullshit of "lesser of two evils", but honestly a biden victory buys us more time. If you live in a deeply red state, fuck it vote PSL or Green (I'm in that boat and will cast my vote in your honor for La Riva), but honestly harm reduction is a practical philosophy that we should consider. We are not ready for fight, and the absolute best case scenario is a PMC-led neoliberal victory that will cost thousands of lives and induce incredible suffering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54Ukt9LrvhQ
Edit: The ensuing struggle session from this post proving my first point would be funny if it wasn't so goddamn sad for our cause
Ding ding ding
Oh look the Bidenist-Revisionist is here to tell us that Marxism-Leninism is obsolete despite 100% of historical successful revolutions and 100% of existing Socialist States being Marxist-Leninist
Responding like this to a good faith post in a hot take thread is real wrecker shit
Only libs, left coms and revisionists are allowed hot takes. Tankie hot takes are banned. Left unity
-You
You can have your own hot take, just don't be an asshole to someone else's hot take in a hot take thread. The purpose of a hot take thread is to get people to air ideas they may not be 100% confident in and have the community sound them out. Snippy replies do nothing but frustrate that purpose; again, real wrecker shit.
Oh wow everyone in here has the super original take that actually Marxism is obsolete and we need a new reformist type of socialism! Definitely not the same horseshit we have been hearing from the western chauvinist left for the past 200 years that has made them a joke in the global communist community and never have a single success.
I’m sorry your civility politics is more important to you than not repeating revisionist tropes over and over ad Infinitum
If a bunch of people are saying the same thing, maybe you should honestly address that instead of sarcastically dismissing it. If a bunch of people are downbearing you and telling you you're acting like a wrecker, maybe you should take a step back and do some self-crit.
A million western succs have made this same argument for 200 years. They have defeated themselves by being continuously useless and wrong and never winning
So explain to the people who are broadly on your side why they should agree with you without being a smug asshole about it. Condescendingly pissing people off instead of putting in the effort to get them on board is a hallmark of liberalism, and is a big reason why everyone hates libs.
Respectability tone policing shit
There are tons of perfectly polite Marxists, I am not one of them. Some people require bullying and mockery of they will stay stuck in their ways.
Succs and ultras that parrot century old utopian tropes are even more outdated than Marxists, and maybe they require sufficient mockery before they realize they are a meme
Congrats. Before I thought you might be wrong. Now I think you're wrong and also kind of a dick. Did you get what you wanted?
In time you will come to find out I’m right, but also kind of a dick.
For your sake I hope you're right but I'm not very optimistic about that.
The bare minimum standard of "don't be a huge asshole at the drop of a hat to people you ostensibly want to organize with" is not tone policing.
No one likes your type of asshole. No one wants to be around your type of asshole. Your type of asshole makes people lose interest and stop showing up. It doesn't matter how right you think you are, because if you can't do the bare minimum of getting along with fellow leftists you're fucking useless.
I don’t consider social democratic distorters to be “fellow leftists”
This is the Internet. Grow a thicker skin.
I don't think that is a fair summary of my points, nor what I said.
The science is solid, I wouldn't be here if it wasn't. Trotsky and Lenin literally fought a revolution together. Modern leftists who use their titles can't sit in the same room. As long as this is the case, we can't win.
Trotsky and Lenin fought together because Trotsky was a Marxist and a Leninist. It wasn’t until later that Trotsky began his campaign of revisionism and betrayal
You made me create an account to respond to this. I'm very tired of online MLs holding a monopoly on the claim of "all historical successful revolutions are ML revolutions." Not only is this claim just untrue, the one that follows it is laughably sad, because ML is also responsible for 100% of degenerated worker states. The October Revolution wasnt ML so dont even pretend you get that one either. Sandals is correct with this take. ML hasnt done anything in the 21st century, its frankly a bastardization of Marx. All tendencies are just following loosely in what some guy said, but the material conditions they were in are vastly different than the ones we are in. Online MLs remind me of preachy evangelicals, always saying "comrade" or preaching down on you while they have the audacity to support Stalin as a great theorist. "the law of value and commodity production continues into communism." What utter shit. Rant over.
October Revolution was Marxist and Leninist and the formulation that Marxism-Leninism was based off of, so yes it was ML.
If you are so tired of MLs having the sole mantle of successful revolutionaries then try winning a revolution sometime.
Of course all “degenerated worker states” are ML, as MLs are the only ones to create ANY worker states
Imagine making an account to post Trotskyite dribble lol
Im not a trot but go off. Lenin wasnt a "Leninist", he was a Marxist. God MLs are allergic to reading. Being proud of a degenerated worker state is peak cope and LARP. You didnt do anything in the various peasant revolutions around the world. Stop larping on the internet for 2 god damn minutes
Nobody says “degenerated worker state” except trots. That’s a trot slogan
"i can only categorize opinions i dislike as the opinions of various tendencies i disagree with." Im not here for a flame war. Im not a trot, i dont agree with perm rev, im not an ML, im not anything.
“I’m not anything”
The famous “not anything” revolution of 1965, ah of course.
Why should I be lectured on socialism by a “not anything” who disregards history and believes themselves above it?
How will you win a revolution with no allies? Congratulations, you've successfully purity-tested us. Now you're alone.
Also I am not alone. I have a billion communists throughout the world on my side. I am participating in the real communist movement. It’s you who is alone
I look forward to the tales of your personal revolution.
Dude there are more Chinese Marxist-Leninists on Earth right now than there have ever been chauvinist western leftoids like you in all of history
You are irrelevant unless you join the real movement
My allies are Marxist. You are “not anything” so you are clearly not my ally
I am a Marxist. Its just i dont like labeling myself. Clearly youre more concerned with appearances than anything else. I hope you get around to reading Marx some time :)
Marxists should be open and clear with labeling themselves and their position. Your aversion to labels is a personal distaste, not a political program or stance.
You are just a distorter too ashamed by actual existing socialism (because you believe rightwing lies to some extent) and thus try to hide and obscure your beliefs.
man youre so obviously a wrecker its insane. "actual existing socialism" MLs can barely identify capitalism of course they cant identify socialism. Read some books man, i promise you you can understand Marxism, its not that advanced.
The only wreckers in here are the ones trying to slowly suffocate Marxism of all its revolutionary ideals and replace them with reformist Biden bullshit
"reformist Biden bullshit" What?? Who said anything about Biden? Fuck Biden
https://hexbear.net/post/34978/comment/277201
The OP of this thread that you chimed in to defend
I mean yeah i dont agree with that part at all. Electoralism is blatantly a dead end. See, we have common ground. I was less defending him and more attacking your ML= successful socialist revolution.
Ok and the only successful revolutions in history have been Marxist parties using Democratic Centralism... so if electoralism isn’t valid and we have to have a revolution....
You are so fucking close but your brain is still poisoned with rightwing lies about AES states
Marxist revolution =/= Marxist-Leninism. I am a lot farther than you lmao. Please dont preach your ML bullshit at me.
No you aren’t you are stuck in infantile ultraleftism that I was years ago lol. You are in the baby stage still
Marxist revolution = Leninist party and Marxism = Marxism-Leninism
Look, until you square away things like the law of value and commodity production still being in operation of "actually existing socialist states" then im not on board with your idea of "socialism" aka state capitalism. DAE leftcom infantile. Get a new response. Lenin was talking about Dutch-German leftcoms. Wasnt talking about Bordiga.
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This site is apparently ultra/trot? Or just in the “hot takes (read: liberal takes)” thread
Ultra bullshit. There will be markets and commodities as long as there are capitalists and imperialists. Only one the majority of the world has gone socialist can the transition to higher stage communism begin.
The conditions of the USSR and PRC have not been adequate to move to communism. FFS read Lenin
Oh good so you support international socialism. Glad were on the same page.
Yes, which has not yet occurred so your whining about Stalin not abolishing the commodity form are detached from reality and are just utopian ramblings of wreckers and ultras
And you support a dead end into revisionism which inevitably leads into the resurgence of capitalist relations. Miss me with that bullshit.
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Damn glad the western dengoid has arrived. Read some theory. I love when Deng busted the communes and turned all the peasants into Nike shoe slaves! That was epic socialism! Get real.
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imagine thinking the US is going to lead the way with communism. Youre detached from reality if you think any movement will get off the ground in the US. Only way is if the US is continually destabilized and cant meddle in the affairs of other nations for a while. So thank you for telling me you totally know me and my ideas. Chapos dont read theory, its painfully clear.
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yeah i agree with your first point. Thats where we have common ground. But CPC raising living standards isnt socialism. It just isnt. Socialism isnt worker enrichment, its the abolition of classes. So i totally understand where youre coming from with the second point. Of course lifting people out of poverty is good, but dont confuse it with socialism/communism.
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Utopian. Idealist. Infantile. Wrecker. Liberal.
Eat hot shit. Revisionist scum.
Yeah it’s me the revisionist, not the guy who was saying Marxism is obsolete and we need to vote for harm reduction LOL
GET YOUR SHIT SORTED OUT CHILD
where did i say its obsolete? You fucking clown. Jesus christ Western MLs get the wall.
Ugh these MLs are too divisive and LARP too much! That’s why they get the wall!!!!
Name 1 time Leftcoms will ever be the ones holding the guns lol perpetual losing cucks
I support the real communist movement, with hundreds of millions of proletariat and worker states.
You support hot air. Miss me with that bullshit