Like it's only so long until a user there posts a dumbass "Kick Tankies out of Lemmy" meme to try and start shit to get us defedded and hexbears take the bait immediately and pile on to tell them what a dumbass they are.
Like as dumb as the "death to NATO" being compared to "death to the people of NATO" stuff was, blahaj and hexbear are the largest queer instances and I quite like taking part in it and their trans communities, idk it's kinda nice to interact with people who don't have the same kind of hexbear brainrot where I see the words "pumpkin spice", "Maoist cult", "Soyfacing PMC radlib" or "rock stacking" and immediately start to go :sus: mentally, it feels refreshing to be able to talk to an incredibly queer positive community that doesn't have the same kind of internet poisoning as all of us. And it seems kind of assholy that some of the users here just don't give a shit and want to post and dunk until we get defedded by every instance, this isn't like lemmy.ca where they were all dicks that none of us liked anyway and were complaining about us doing hate speech against fucking landlords or lemm.ee where almost every time time a user from there pops their head into our threads here they say something racist or transphobic. iirc blahaj.zone was actually the second most requested instance to federate with in the pre federation discussions due to how good of a queer space it was.
Like their first defed thread was a complete embarrassment because there were a load of users there that actually had positive opinions towards us and then they saw the shitshow happening once from the post reaching active and changed to be way against us which tbh, fair enough.
Edit:
statements from the head mod Ada:
After that "people of NATO" bullshit, I don't see the administrative team (the admins and mods collectively) of blahaj operating in good faith. My comment about the bad faith that other instances engage in applies as much to blahaj as the other instances like lemmy.ca. If they truly believe in the vision and strategic goals of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, they can just say so without hiding behind some ridiculous excuse. I'm sure Stoltenberg and various other generals in command of a giant military are quaking in their boots about some obscure website wishing for their collective deaths.
Most of the users seem to be cool enough, but the administrative team is a major obstacle, and frankly, I do not like it and do not believe it is fair that we have to change our behavior while they don't have to do shit. How is this fair? We have a stickied "Amendments to the Code of Conduct regarding the Fediverse" issued by an admin, so what have they done in return? Apparently, our admins went out of their way to delete a post for their sake, so when are their admins going to delete the "fuck tankies" banner on their largest and most active comm? And this will not be the end of it, mark my words. They'll demand more and more, ever slowly chipping away at what makes Hexbear Hexbear. If they want to demonstrate that they're operating in good faith, they need to compromise as well.
But I'm already wasting my time. In the second of meta discussion on blahaj about Hexbear (which I will not link because that would be bRigAdInG), everyone is giving the same tired excuses (tankies, emote spam, Ukraine) about why they want to defed from us. It's going to happen one way or another. I just wish the admins here didn't have to humiliate themselves in the process.
as cringe as it is that blahaj.zone hosts an explicitly anti-communist comm for a community half full of chasers, blahaj zone as a whole is pretty cool and i wouldn't like to see it defedded
fair, though if it does get defedded, you can always make an account over there, i had to for some furry instances that were deemed too risque to be federated
Yeah ig, I'd just rather be able to spend time in both at the same time rather than just one at a time
fuck authoritarianism
Ok, so define it first. Bonus points if you don’t consult the state department.
The UK is currently run by an unelected, unopposed dictatorial tyrant with no mandate. Just something to think about while you try and invent a definition.
fuck hierarchies
How do you intend to organise?
fuck commie cops
I don’t see the People’s Police running protestors over or shooting minorities on the regular.
You know there are actually people living in China, including foreigners, and you can ask them about the "social credit score" right? And they all say they've never heard of it. On Baidu they actually joke about it because westerners think it actually exists. You can even ask them any other question about China you want! You don't have to limit yourself to one topic!
OP explicitly said
Bonus points if you don’t consult the state department
You don't get the bonus points. In fact, you get points deducted.
Woah, I had no idea social credit was made up. That kinda blows my mind.
iirc it's actually an internal system for cracking down on corrupt businesses, not individual people but it was reported on incredibly disingenuously in the west and then redditors started talking about it like it was this Orwellian super surveillance (i.e. like the system they currently live in in America)
Here's something by the Canadian government informing Canadian businesses on how to act in China: https://www.tradecommissioner.gc.ca/china-chine/cscs-scse.aspx?lang=eng
As part of China’s push towards data-driven governance, the Corporate Social Credit System (CSCS) is to be a single, standardized reputation-based scheme for both local and foreign firms doing business in China, ensuring their regulatory compliance and improving their corporate behaviour.
Also I'm pretty sure I saw another article talking about its exact functionality at some other point but I can't find it rn.
It's a really good example of how something very widely discussed in popular media can be very misleading. There is a credit system, there's a kernel of truth, but the reporting is completely different from what's really happening. But because the reporting was so pervasive many people have accepted it as an article of faith and even if you try to show them what's really going on they'll retreat from it without engaging with the idea they might have been misled.
There is a social credit score for businesses (to ding them for anti-social practices like fraud, littering, etc), but nothing recognizable exists for individuals
the people’s police? You mean like Tianenmen Square?
NYPD filmed running over BLM protestors for no reason vs Full Footage of Tank Man incident showing that twelve tanks stop for one man and are patient and permissive enough to allow him to climb onto their tanks
More info here
Our theory is that the tank commander was the guy's son and Tank Man was asking him what he wanted for dinner.
My theory is he was clearly a hardline Maoist, he's trying to get the tanks to go back towards the square. "What do you mean you're done! You're done when I say you're done!"
total surveillance
My home country literally has a higher level of CCTV cameras per person than any other country in the world, closely followed by the US and then Australia. America has the highest police funding per capita in the world, far outstripping the UK in second place. The snowden leaks revealed that the NSA uses it's ability to track people and read their messages and look at anything saved on their computers for NSA agents to stalk their crushes at all hours, find nudes they'd taken on their phone, see if they were flirting with other people and had an internal culture of showing the nudes (i.e. ones saved on the victims phone and not willingly shared with the NSA creep) of the people they were stalking (and were looking at without their knowledge, let alone consent) to other people in the office, they even had an informal term for this called 'lovetapping' iirc. If you live in a five eyes country, then every bit of information your native intelligence agency has on you is shared with all of the other nations in the agreement.
Liberal can't read, knows nothing with extreme confidence.
Go away. We don't have to be nice to you here.
"I uncritically believe all the propaganda the state department shovels in to my little piggie maw, because unquestioning acceptance of everything the US State Department says is the core of Anarchism"
There are many many Anarchist critiques of the behavior of the AES states. Well founded, valid arguments that need to be considered. State Department propaganda is not on that list, and you're an embarrassment to everyone who has fought and died for Anarchist causes.
You're posting in a communist instance mf, and you're not in either blahaj or hexbear so I don't really give a shit about your opinion on the matter
"we want to kill all Jews, black people, queers, romas, communists, unionists, disabled people, antifascists and Slavs"
"we want to suppress or kill Nazis so they can't do that"You: "I can't tell the difference between these two groups, they are exactly the same, if you punch a Nazi that makes you no better than them"
I'm an anarchist myself, but if you try to approach their argument logically I think you'll have a better chance of understanding why people might come to different conclusions than you.
If the bourgeois were left to their own devices, it stands to reason they'd be back on their shit as soon as they saw a chance. In that light, an oppression of the formerly oppressive minority for the benefit of the majority (literally everyone else) might seem like a necessity.
Based on what theory I've read, that and protections from external capitalist pressures are the entire reason for implementing a 'dictatorship of the proletariat'.
I'm not saying you're wrong here, just that some empathy might help some leftist unity along into helping more people see things our way.
There is a second major reason:
The bourgeoisie, by their nature as a class, inherently need a working class from which to extract profit. Therefore, if they are in charge of the state, they will seek to perpetuate the existence of a working class under them.
The proletariat does not inherently need an owning class over them, because that owning class fundamentally serves as a middleman hampering production. There can be and currently is, however, a circumstantial need for them due to their cheap administrative labor (relative to the cost of state administrative labor). Because of this, a state controlled by the proletariat will remove the bourgeoisie as they stop being useful in various industries, and eventually should entirely destroy the class and therefore class itself.
Reality isn’t a superhero movie, if you want to combat systems that oppress people you need to be practical and make sure that the people enforcing the oppressive systems can’t just undermine you and re-establish them, an outcome that has actually happened in places like Chile in the 1970s
AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
holy shit one of you is actually this stupid! i seriously thought this was just a meme, oh my fucking god you are dumber than dogshit and half as charming
So what made you think nazis deserve human rights? Serious question, I'm genuinely fascinated
If I put Bezos in jail I am no better than Bezos, you say? Very leftist of you.
If not for this being Hexbear I would transform into my Super Sectarian form.
Very helpful, thank you for your contribution to this extremely productive ongoing dialogue.
no gods, no masters
right, so let’s go build the material conditions for this to be possible!
let’s call this process hmmm socialism, or something
I didn't see the original comment, but I agree with general anarchist sentiment and even I know that we won't be able to jump right to it from capitalism. I view it more as an ideal longterm goal, and we are of course going to need to have a stable socialist society first to get there. That's why any communist willing to work with anarchists is a comrade of mine!
As an anarchist, my qualms with state socialism are simply I can't imagine them ever dismantling and giving power back to the people. That being said, I do think heavily centralized governments like China's are essentially infinitely more likely to not destroy the Earth's biosphere or plunge a region into forever wars for a few cents worth of profit, so they definitely seem like a much MUCH lesser evil.
The point of a dictatorship of the proletariat is that power is already in the hands of the people by means of a centralized democracy. There is no point in Lenin where he says "and then the Good King abnegates the throne," because a government organ having unilateral power over the people was something he specifically rejected.
I do understand that is what it says on the tin. I'm not sure how it works in practice, and I have real hesitation to take any powers-that-be at their word. Probably comes from the trauma of growing up in a "free" "democracy" and then finding out it is all bullshit and lies. I also have actual, material criticisms of the USSR and the PRC, but before engaging with those more, I want to develop my understanding of theory from primary sources.
Any theory can be met with "so you say." It is a matter of enforcement. The revolution is not won for all time, it must be protected.
Whining about brigading and NATO are clear signs of terminal Reddit
, so I'm not very optimistic about the long-term prospects for federationBut more than that, creating special rules for their weird Vaushite shitposting instance is not it imo
Frankly I was against federating with shitjustworks because they host an explicitly anti-communist comm and I'm having trouble seeing why I should feel differently about blahj
Edit: Just saw their new meta discussion on Hexbear, which despite not having a single comment from us is still full of whining, crying liberals
trying to retake r/196 years after was taken over by vaushits is cringe, it's an old meme, let it die
They will probably find a reason to block us no matter what we do tbh
Based on what their admin Ada has actually said she's willing to put up with us a bit because she really does want to help builds a sense of trans solidarity between the two major trans instances so I feel like that's mischaracterising her a bit. If she just wanted to find an excuse to defed us she would have done it over the shitshow in the previous defed thread.
Show
Show
If that's true, why were we defederated?
Edit: also, it's really fucking telling on themselves that they would rather federate with Nazis than with us. Not to mention the clear contempt for hexbear, even when ostensibly trying to mend ties.
I hadn't seen this prior to posting in this thread and it does soften my view a lot. Supporting trans people across the lemmyverse is more important than yelling at obnoxious libs.
Maybe we can get Hexbears to agree to some kind of cease-fire thing and agree not to engage with politics on Blahaj? Idk how that would work, given the consistent failure of Liberals to support and protect trans people. That seems like it would be an inevitable point of conflict.
Might I suggest adding these to the main post so more people see them? This is important context that I didn't have when I first posted and it might change other people's views.
I don't believe it for a second. We were defederated for no real reason. They allow explicit anti-communism. These are just words. They'll defederate you the first chance they get. Then they'll release a statement like "well, we tried, but those tankies were just too evil".
as sad as it makes me bc i really want more trans-positive spaces to lurk, i think you're probably 100% correct here
Think about it. She's lamenting all the hostility they get from most liberal instances, but clearly holds hexbear in contempt, and she defederated from us. Why would she prefer their company over us? We ARE the other big queer instances that she so hopes to find. It's a meme that trans girls are all communists, and I'm sure she knows it. This seems to me that she has a very active interest in stopping this. Why else would Nazis be less problematic than us?
I kinda wish we had a more general purpose trans comm on here. transenbyliberation is ok and all but id like just a word-for-word copy of trans circlejerk and traaa so we can spam reddit with those to get trans people on a more supportive platform
goddamn i didn't even get a chance to say i love this before it happened lol https://hexbear.net/c/traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns
idk if this was you or great minds just think alike but either way i'm thrilled.
it was me, i thought of it and then immediately acted on it, rare for me
I blocked c/196, because I absolutely don't trust myself not to see some anticommunist bullshit and go in guns blazing. They have "fuck tankies" in their comm banner, which I take as a sign that it's very much not a space for me, so you know what? Fine. I don't have to be there. The rest of blahaj.zone seems pretty cool, I like that it's an explicitly queer instance, but c/196 seems like a bad idea and I just don't want to deal with it.
Same, I saw "fuck tankies" in the banner and that makes it very clear it's not a space for anyone left of Joe Biden.
They defed Lemmygrad instantly. Hell I posted a meme "weed this weed that how about you weed Lenin" and got banned for "supporting Mao" or something, check the modlog lmao.
Aparently that's what constitutes brigading for them, posting commie memes. Whatever you guys are doing is much more than what we did lmao
And they're that hostile not to our conduct, but to critical, limited support for countries they don't like based largely on either pure vibes or a highly propagandized version of history. To me it seems very likely that we'll be defederated sooner or later due to their ideological
brainworms regardless of what we do. Shitposting and dunking will certainly hasten that, but eventually one of the admins is going to see one too many "for fucks sake no one got tank jellied in June 4th" posts and decide that we're red fash 1982 septic tank commies and defed us because... they're anti-Communist, anti-Left, liberals.Edit; Reading Ada's statement has changed my view on this. I don't know how to practically accomplish it, but please read Ada's comment that has been added to the top post. I think maintaining detente with another large trans space is important if we can find a way to do it.
Any excuse will do. While there's been some aggro behavior, I got accused of attacking/insulting someone just for being against corporate pride
Libs really hate being told that the horizon of what they could be doing is wider than what they are doing, and take it as an insult.
They also don't seem to realize the irony in getting offended by that but also telling someone that all their work is for naught and better things aren't possible
Simple solution: allow defederation from single communities and block 196 for everyone, because the memes there have never been anything but incredibly cringe.
Individual users can block communities, but admins cannot defederate individual communities. Likewise, admins can defederate from entire instances, but individuals cannot block instances.
Definitely room for improvement for lemmy.
Didn't lemmy.world specifically block pirate communities on lemmy.ml and dbzero without blocking the whole instance?
I don't want out admins blocking liberal dweebs on my behalf, I can do it myself. Nazi instances are fine.
Inb4 :same picture:
Most of them don't seem to like Hexbear in general so idk how this is going to pan out
I like it. But I was also a regular on /r/Chapo before it was nuked.
I like you guys lots ❤️
I hope you don't get disappeared by our Sharky State. Your memes can border on rancid but mostly I'm into it 😎
Edit: Weird, a different image of blahaj appears when you look at this from your instance, do you guys have like a custom emote also called blahaj?
A lot of the vulgarity is very deliberate. A big part of the site culture is a rejection of the civility discourse that dominated Democratic politics in '16 and to an extent again in '20. We're not just assholes, the handful of brain cells knocking around here do have some logic behind the posting, sometimes.
Idk, the admin Ada does seem to genuinely want to some form of trans solidarity between the instances, and she's said she's willing to put up with some of our bullshit as long as we're not too abrasive over there
WHAT IF THERE WERE A MYSTERIOUS "THIRD WAY"?
But for serious, I get the feeling that someone might need to make an instance for people who want to post on both. It could even be queer themed. I just don't see hexbear being able to rein it in enough to avoid the inevitable, and personally I like the dirtbag culture as it is.
Many of these "I don't want to get defederated" posts are essentially asking for a complete 180 on the site culture; Stop posting so much. Stop responding to posts. Stop bullying liberals. Stop using emojis. Stop dismissing bad faith arguments and outright lies with PPB.
That's not what Hexbear is. I like your solution of a bridge instance, but beyond that the solution is likely that people who want to view anti-Leftist, anti-Communist instances need to make separate accounts on those instances.
Edit: I read Ada's (from Blahaj) posts and I have to temper my statement - I do see the value in maintaining ties with another major trans instance and making some adjustments to make that possible is a worthy thing to do. Please check out the statements, they've been added to the original post.
I like Ada's statement but wonder why it didn't apply for Lemmygrad too. They defederated from us for kicks.
Idgi if users want to interact with a non federated instance, just create an alt there?
Hopefully it won't come to that but if it does it had better be called lib.rehab, either that or citationsneeded.chat
blahaj as a whole I'd very much like to see remain federated with us. Trans community and solidarity is needed here, but my experience in 196 was a bit wild lol
They are going to defed us, it’s a foregone conclusion, what we do or don’t do doesn’t matter.
Indeed. The thing that gets communist instances defederated or quarantined or whatever isn't being "uncivil." That is just an excuse. It is because libs don't want to have to consider the possibility someone disagrees with them. If they have to choose between protecting liberalism or protecting the things liberalism claims to support, like lgbtq+ people, they'll choose liberalism every time.
Therefore you don't even have to entertain restraining your behavior. How elegant that is.
We've already got turds wandering into this thread from their instance. I don't see how this is going to work.
turds wandering into this thread from their instance
I think you mean BRIGADING US MODS MODS MODS HALP PRESS THE DEFEDERATION BUTTON RIGHT NOW
I'm very close to just starting to spam blahaj.zone with Leslie Feinberg. If you think that the liberal regime will give us any rights without massive struggle, you don't know our fucking history.
Liberals have given trans people nothing, we have had to claw everything we have from their cold dead grasp.
Unironically would be interested to read that, I still have that trans liberation pdf lying around somewhere on my computer
trans liberation pdf
you should read it. it's easy to manage in a few evenings, 'cause it's easy enough to read and it's just straight bangers after bangers
I really struggle to respect someone who repeatedly said "People of NATO" and never recanted, but I do need to respect her handling of this.
Gonna have to ask you to, its better for the trans community to keep shit together so we can spread survival tips to each other, even if 196 makes the instance insufferable and oftentimes transphobic
Im hoping theyll do something about how problematic 196 is at some point, but I doubt it
Ah, I meant the internal regard kind of respect, not the outward demeanor kind. I don't plan on wrecking.
hell yeah girl! i'm glad you decided to just go for it. :3
but not that much"
welcome
