I'm back on reddit for one hour and I'm actually arguing with some of the stupidest people on the planet who keep pivoting back to blaming protesters and can't blame the DNC for even a single minute. So many people, so, so, so many people who all just want to blame the protesters and won't say a single word about how Biden and Kamala tanked their election.
They literally keep going back and talking about the protesters, literally, and LITERALLY won't say a word in their response in criticism of Kamala or Biden. This is utterly ridiculous; I left reddit initially because of the shocking amounts of bigotry and now I'm heading off again because these people are pigheaded children in response to people refusing to vote for genociders; they're literally mocking that the protesters are protesting and even claiming they're just doing it for tiktok and don't actually care.
These people are so hateful and vile. God I wish I could teleport them into Gaza.
There was at least one front page post about explicitly blaming the DNC. idk what shithole sub you're wading into
The whole point of modern liberal democracy, from the liberal perspective, is that it's like a market: the entrepreneur/party identifies (or creates!) a demand for a solution/product/policy package, then brings it to market/nominates a candidate and launches a marketing campaign. If you profit/win the election, you did a good job; otherwise, you failed. You are bankrupt. You should leave the market.
If your proposal does not represent the views of the voters, if you lose the popular vote, by definition, you did a shit job.Not only they don't know jack shit about Marxism, they don't even understand their own theory.
15 million people who voted for Biden didn't show up to vote for Harris. They didn't go vote for Trump, he got fewer votes this time than last time. So 15 million people just stayed home. The question is: what would have gotten them out to vote? Everything the Dems try every time, clearly isn't the answer... Moving right, courting the center right, gaslighting, strong arming, bullying, running on nothing more than "at least I'm not him", etc... maybe, just maybe, it's time to move left and embrace progressive policy... And not just bullshit half-assed lip service either... I'm talking put Bernie and the squad in charge of the DNC and start kicking out fake Dems.
Edit: I mean "fake" Dems as compared to the actual progressives we'd stack the party with
i mean, you're not wrong. the other responses to you are educational and you should read them but you are correct. it's just that we are beyond this phase. it's no longer an option on the table.
notice how social democracy is being rolled back everywhere in the western world. and any attempts at blossoming in the global south are ruthlessly stomped out.
there's no more compromise or bones to throw to the working class.
to start, the left will have to build up outside of mainstream politics. there's already tiny seeds everywhere.
things will get worse. we will be there to help where we can
Very briefly:
- Capitalism is a system of exploitation and inequality. Capitalism is right-wing.
- Liberalism is inherently right-wing because it's the system through which capital interest captures political control.
- Democrats are liberals.
- Conservatives are basically liberals with more nationalist and traditionalist identity politics.
- Progressives are liberals who sheepdog leftist movement back to the right into supporting liberalism to prevent the emergence of class consciousness and other dangerous threats to their bourgeois political monopoly.
- All political factions in mainstream US politics are right-wing and always move in that ideological direction, which is why this keeps happening.
You have not been betrayed by a few bad actors in a system which can be fixed with reforms; you are a hostage to a monopoly of power that occasionally gives you the illusion of being able to interact with a system designed to exploit you. The ruling class in the US does not care which candidate wins, because it has hand-picked the two choices which are no threat to its interest, and has and will continue to prevent any threat to capital interest from emerging in an electoral system they fully control.
The notion that "the wrong person won" is not a concern of the ruling class, but it's presented as a dire concern to the exploited class so they will fight amongst themselves instead of uniting against their oppressors.
Yes I agree with all of that... Do you think there's any way to overcome this? Realistically speaking, the "ruling class" has been ruling since the Sumerians... In one way or another
Big question. Again, very "briefly" ; )
There was a reduction of classes from earlier pre-capitalist points in history into two primary classes in an industrial capitalist society:
- A class of laborers that do everything. Create everything. Build everything. Keep everything maintained. Who represent nearly the complete mass of society and all productive force. The proletariat.
- A bourgeois owner class that exists to endlessly extract from the productive forces through economic coercion and violence. This class represents a very small minority of people, but an efficient parasite to the improvement of conditions which should be a natural result of the productive force.
This coersion is accomplished through the concept of "ownership", where ownership of the land and means of production give them the exclusive right to dictate to you how little you must sell your labor for, and how much the cost of goods will be (which are produced by the same labor). By controlling both wages and cost of goods, the owner class can manipulate economic conditions and markets to maximize their own profit growth, which is their primary class interest.
If we create / do / build everything, why do we allow ourselves to be exploited? We have the numbers. We have the tools. We have the knowledge. But we are conditioned to submit to the authority of the owner class, because they tell us they own our labor; own our time; own our land; own our workplaces; own our farms; own our factories -- that we do not own them. But that's an illusion and a lie. Do you really need someone to be a c-suite billionaire to perform your job duties? You're paid from a tiny fraction of the value your labor creates, not from the generosity of the parasite.
The productive capacity of humanity belongs to the good of humanity, not to a small cadre of people which enjoy unimaginable wealth, security and comfort at the expense of everyone else on earth. We first must recognize that this productive capacity belongs to those who perform it, not those who suck its blood.
Can it be done? It has been done!
There have been a number of successful revolutions against the rule of the bourgeoisie. The first was the USSR. Other liberation struggles followed, such as China, Korea, Viet Nam, Cuba, Guatamala, El Salvidor, Iran, Afghanistan, Chile, etc. Parenthetically, consider how the US, the capitalist military empire, responded to those struggles and how many million of people the US killed to prevent them from succeeding; how many times the US threatened to end the world if it could not rule over everything. These countries are saddled with illegal unilateral sanctions, blockades, bombed, invaded, couped, and robbed to keep them from succeeding against capitalist control. That success would be a dangerous example to others.
Overcoming the forces of capitalism is an international struggle. It requires us to awaken a global class consciousness and unite as a class interest which can begin displacing this unjust system by taking ownership of it. That requires the creation of a new state which has the power and will to oppress the interests of capital and direct productive forces toward the needs of the people.
Some good starting points:
Michael Parenti - Blackshirts and Reds
Lol.. you're in a communist sub, what do you think would be the obvious answer here ?
Organize, start a vanguard party, lead the common folk to revolt and seize power, and ultimately, enact the dictatorship of the proletariat 😉
Democrats serve donors, not voters. They would only go left if the alternative would be being shot by People's Tribunal.
'fake' dems are just real democrats
this is the democrats, basically the same as republicans and bought out by most of the same interests
Oh, sorry, I meant "fake" compared to the actual progressives we'd stack the party with. I doubt most current Dems would make the cut... But some might fall in line
ItBegins.gif
Inb4 the Democratic Party issues a formal apology for Obgerfell.
I can’t even argue on reddit anymore they temp banned me for saying “watch a zionist short circuit when you show them an anti zionist jew” and they said it was hate speech L O L
Cussing out zionists on mainstream social media is so frustrating because if you're even half as edgy as those evil creeps, your comment gets taken down and / or you're banned.
People get away with posting literally unreconstructed antisemitic memes day in and day out but if you criticize Israel for the crimes of genocide and apartheid you get the ban hammer.
they can call palestinians animals, call children terrorists, say they deserve every manner of horrific brutality, demand they vacate land, claim that cleansing them is god's decree, the list just goes on
i have never heard even the most radical muslim speak of anyone this way not even israelis
Having good experiences on the actual left wing subs - like r/thedeprogram
I spent the entire day arguing with Blue MAGA Dumbfucks in r/politics and honestly didn't have this much fun on reddit since the days of MTC.
Leave reddit and never return, I promise your life will noticeably improve. No point in engaging on a CIA-controlled astroturfed to shit platform
Totally agree with this. And why on earth even use that website when we have the fediverse which is a billion times better
This site is a message... and part of a system of messages... pay attention to it!
Creating this website was important to us. We considered ourselves to be a powerful culture.
This website is not a place of honor... no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here... nothing valued is here.
What is here is dangerous and repulsive to us. This message is a warning about danger.
The danger is on a particular website... it increases towards the default subs... the center of danger is here... of a particular ideology and mode of production.
The danger is still present, in your time, as it was in ours.
The danger is to the mind, and it can kill.
The form of the danger is an emanation of ideology.
The danger is unleashed only if you substantially interact with this website frequently. This website is best shunned and left uninhabited.
Not only do you have liberals insisting kamala ran a perfect campaign, the genz subreddit is fucking cooked.
Like full blown celebrating and saying anybody who thinks anything bad will happen under Trump is delusional.
It's one thing to be delusional enough to say kamala would have been way better than Trump but to say that nothing bad will happen with a trifecta of republican control is wild.
Are spaces for gen z just that astroturfed or is it really a bunch of little nazi shitstains running around. The exit pill data last night suggest the latter that gen z rejected liberals messaging but they are moving far right and fast as a result.
Like the take isn't "kamala wouldn't have been any better for lgbtq people or gaza" it's more like "nothing bad is going to happen to women or trans people you all just live in a bubble because you think trumps bad"
Tbh I wouldnt exactly trust reddit to show an actual sample size of what any particular group thinks in general because theyre all fringe weirdos, but especially not gen z. Your average gen z person is on twitter or tiktok, not reddit.
The gen z subreddit gets brigaded by people who aren’t even gen z all the time. Not the best view of how that generation thinks.
Yeah, that's been the vibe for such a long time. There was a post about how you need to already have saved 1 year worth of salary for retirement by the age of 30. Some people were calling out how that's unrealistic for a lot of people now, but there was way more people talking about how that's entirely doable.
They were typically ~30s or older and had children already. They were also making over 100k and had jobs in tech and engineering. The youngest was like 28-29 that had a high paying 6 figure job. Which is far from the norm.
But yeah, lots of "that's totally realistic!", "the article is completely fine, genz is just lazy", "if you haven't begun saving for retirement in your early 20s it's your fault and you're a failure."
There's brigrading trying to rip influence and then there's every single comment being about how trump isn't bad and everybody overreacting and saying he's racist is why they won.
Like the top twenty comments are all gloating that watching liberals melt down makes their vote for trump even more worth it.
Even then I’d say that’s more about the demographic of people who use Reddit more than Zoomers as a whole.
Are spaces for gen z just that astroturfed or is it really a bunch of little nazi shitstains running around. The exit pill data last night suggest the latter that gen z rejected liberals messaging but they are moving far right and fast as a result.
Idk why millennials thought Gen Z was great or anything. Ever since they've been on the internet they've been inundated with fascist propaganda.
So were millenials but then we turned 16 and realized it was horseshit.
"We'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way" was the lyrics to the number one song in the country and a bunch of pre teens were asking what Afghanistan had to do with 9/11.
I don’t know why anybody thought Gen Z was going to be this generation of hardline communists or something, a plurality are little Nazi shitstains and most of the rest are at “Joe Biden dropped out???” levels of political literacy
Are spaces for gen z just that astroturfed or is it really a bunch of little nazi shitstains running around. The exit pill data last night suggest the latter that gen z rejected liberals messaging but they are moving far right and fast as a result.
I've heard about Andrew Tate and how Trans people are icky far more than any other political ideas from highschoolers in the last two years. Granted, its only the guys and I'm in Texas (but one of the few counties that was blue despite Kamala's terrible performance).
I wish I could teleport them into Gaza. why would you exacerbate the suffering of the palestinians left there smh
i cant even bring myself to engage in obscure hobby reddit anymore, even in completely unrelated spaces the fuckin
energy permeates the area like background radiationyeah I tapped out during... idk 2022? and haven't looked back. more obscure forums and chatrooms I still stick around in, and I'll read reddit threads when they show up in google searches, but I don't have an account and won't engage at all
for sure, there's still tons of good info you can find on reddit, but in terms of actually engaging with peeps on there? nah lmao
Though there are MILLIONS of shitlibs out there, this shit is definitely being turfed. The idea that heads must roll among the Democratic party elite is an incredibly dangerous thing. It is an idea which must be strangled in the crib. This was the whole purpose of Russiagate 8 years ago. To absolve the party leadership of their world-historic negligence. Nobody lost their jobs.
