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    • keki_ya [none/use name]
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      4 years ago

      the thing is that anarcho-market-socialism just seems like Ancapistan but with worker co-ops to me. I don't get why, in this age of technology, you would ever choose to unironically have firms and markets when we could just centrally plan everything.

      • Liberalism [he/him,they/them]
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        4 years ago

        I think he does see it as a transition stage, though? I used to keep up with him before he really showed his true colors, and I'm pretty sure he saw market socialism merely as a logical next step from where we are now.

        Tbh, that's definitely not his worst opinion

        • keki_ya [none/use name]
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          4 years ago

          yeah I edited my comment, although I'm sort of skeptical of the "transition stage" argument. In a first-world country with a million little firms producing lots of different commodities it would make sense, but for third-world nations (let's be honest - that's the only place where revolution is going to be happening for a long time) then I think it's easier to nationalize the little industry that exists and skip the whole part where you have to root out and dismantle the market system.

          This also depends on the state of the world too, since nations like Vietnam and China had to kind of convert back to market-states since they were sanctioned and deprived of any sort of foreign investment. Without another USSR it's hard to commit to a command economy.

          • kristina [she/her]
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            4 years ago

            waiting for xi to nationalize the entire chinese economy

          • anthm17 [he/him]
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            4 years ago

            The USSR also did markets for a bit, but Stalin shut that down.

            There are arguments for Market Socialism, but unless you seriously address the fact that it's capitalism it's just going to eat you alive.

            • Oni [any,comrade/them]
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              4 years ago

              And also that the inherent anarchy of markets rather than a centrally planned economy creates waste and other inefficiencies, something we can't afford if we are serious about dealing with the climate crisis.

        • anthm17 [he/him]
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          4 years ago

          It's basically the opinion of the chinese government.

          Dress up capitalism with fancy words and pretend it isn't nearly unfettered wealth extraction from your populace.

            • anthm17 [he/him]
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              4 years ago

              Completely applicable and completely fair. Continue simping for Jack Ma you lib.

                • anthm17 [he/him]
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                  4 years ago

                  God damn right I'll shit on fake socialists and dictators.

                  • lilpissbaby [any]
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                    4 years ago

                    you do realize that you're the type of "leftist" who would've denounced the USSR and sided with the US over it?

              • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                4 years ago

                https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/22/asia/china-ren-zhiqiang-xi-jinping-intl-hnk/index.html this guy was corrupt af and got owned just this year LOL

                https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-china-31310325 this guy was similarly involved in corruption scandal and international intrigue/organize crime... got owned

                https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/1502808/Tycoon-paid-3-bn-for-stay-of-execution.html and this shit is just sad LOL... another billionaire OWNED

                Dude, you have no idea what you're talking about, Chinese billionaires are kept coloring within the lines & many have been executed for their very serious corruption & dealings with the black market & mafia

                You're a lib if you think that jailing a billionaire for 18 years for his fucking slimy corruption is the same as Western capitalism & "liberal democracy" giving Jeffrey Epstein a fucking plea deal

                laughable

                • anthm17 [he/him]
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                  4 years ago

                  You’re a lib if you think that jailing a billionaire for 18 years for his fucking slimy corruption is the same as Western capitalism & “liberal democracy” giving Jeffrey Epstein a fucking plea deal

                  What am I if I point out that they were fine with his exploitation of the workers and only went after him after he critized Xi?

                  • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                    4 years ago

                    no one's invented the "communism" button yet, and Marx himself just critiqued capitalism... if only to reveal contradictions that must be addressed and utilized in a less exploitative & socially deleterious manner

                    "productive forces" have to be utilized and improved and turned toward social ends. firms have to be organized & workers have to be engaged in production

                    if you don't think the "mass line" & nationalization of large industries just this year are tantamount to an actual full-on display of the power of "labor theory of value", you're losing the thread imo

                    https://www.ft.com/content/22108ddd-3280-4013-bcd8-1adc9e6ae13d PRC just reported 4.9% growth yesterday, their consumer spending is returning. And yet, we will only see losses in any other major capitalist country. India shrank something like 30% in the 2nd quarter, that's devastating.

                    China still leads the world in manufacturing output, the raw numbers of comparative global economic activity & dynamism make this clear

    • Express [any,none/use name]
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      4 years ago

      I think this is exactly right. He talks and acts like an ancap but wants to dress himself up in progressive values.