I keep hearing that this is frowned upon, but I cannot help it. After I share, I circle back and explain how and why I connected the two stories to try to recenter the other person. Is this annoying? How do you want ND people to respond in that case?
Once I saw a panel discussion about some community problems. For some reason this moment really stuck with me and I think of it often.
An activist was addressing an elected politician who was also on the panel. The activist was talking about all the people they have known who have suffered due (ultimately) to policy decisions. Many people dead, injured, relationships destroyed, other kinds of harm. They were saying names of people they had lost and what circumstances had hurt them. They were crying and speaking from their heart describing the problems in the community which were clearly overwhelming.
Then the politician's turn came and they said "Oh I totally understand that, I've had it happen in my own life". Proceeded to tell a story about close friend. Friend had been driving some fancy fast car while high/drunk, got into a big crash and was charged with DUI. They were facing the possibility of substantial incarceration due to priors. However friend's parents being wealthy and powerful, they got off with no consequences. (That was literally how the politician told the story, I am not editorializing.) Ending with something like "so that was lucky."
In that moment it was a very bone-headed thing to do because the fact is that the politician simply has nothing in their life which can compare to living in a community which is marginalized and constant target of oppression as the activist had. They shouldn't have tried because it was so minimizing and made it appear the politician basically didn't hear anything the activist had said. And for whatever it is worth I bet my left pinky toe this politician is NT.
So that is an extreme example of when not to reply in kind. Some times another person's experience is so far removed from your own. Like if someone tells me about how they escaped torture and lived in a refugee camp I won't follow up with "Ya traveling is really hard" and tell a story of how I got stuck in a train station for 12 hours because I missed a connection or something.
Other times you might have a similar experience but if the other person still wants to talk, or is looking for a signal that you are interested to hear more, you can share it in an inviting way.
Example which contains potential lines of conversation, I used the example of sharing about death of a parent; nothing specific.
CW: death of parent
If someone is talking about their mother just died, they might not want to hear all the details how your mother died. But saying "I'm so sorry to hear about your mother. It sounds like a very painful time. Thank you for sharing. My mother died a few years ago. I really feel you about not realizing how much I'd miss her" and then leaving some silence lets them sort of decide where to go with it.
So if they are done talking for the moment, they might invite you to share by asking a specific or broad follow up question.
Or, if they are still needing to finish their story, they might reflect from your statement like "Yeah we had bad times but I didn't realize how difficult the holidays would be without her....." and keep going.
Or they might be completely done discussing the subject of a parent dying. Maybe they don't want to talk about either situation any further. In which case they might just reply with brief condolences, change the subject etc.
I think when someone is sharing something personal/sensitive and then the subject suddenly shifts away from their own experience, it can be a bit discombobulating. Like they are being vulnerable, opening themselves up, it's soft and tender in there. They are looking inward on themselves, but suddenly attention is shifted to another person and they have to divert their attention to digesting this other story. It can feel demanding. They also may not have gotten to the end of the story yet. Sometimes what the person really wants to share with you, comes later. but they need to tell the first part in order for you to understand the next thing. So by then going and telling something else, it detours their narrative and the conclusion is not reached.
And when you have geared yourself up to tell someone something that is really hard, but can't get there because the person basically cuts you off, it feels bad, like you are defeated. It can leave the relationship worse off than when the conversation started, rather than stronger.
My feeling is that you should introduce the subject of your own experience in a way that is initially brief, relates to what they said on an emotional level (not a factual one), and communicates that you are still interested to hear more from them. But of course context is everything.
It's a common thing for ND people to do as it allows us a a way to demonstrate empathy. The problem is that most NTs can interpret it as being off topic or making it about yourself. What they probably want in the conversation is to vent/express their emotions to another person. If you bring up a similar event that happened to you, they don't get that opportunity.
A good way to channel that impulse is to bring it up briefly and then immediately bring the topic back to them. Show them that you understand but still keep the conversation centered around them and their feelings.
"Hey, my mom died recently so I'm not feeling great."
"I'm so sorry, my mom died last year so I know what you're going through. How are you holding up, do you need anything?
Not NT but halfway decent at "translating" my thoughts into socially acceptable behavior.
I used to do this, and once I became conscious of the fact that I was doing it, I now make a conscious effort to just not come off like I'm trying to one-up the other person or make it about me. That's the most important part.
People generally respond very well to short, sympathetic stories when they are looking for comfort. If you have any doubts, a simple "I've been there and I know how you feel" is always going to be acceptable.
Everybody does this ND and NT alike, it is natural to want to share how you can relate to another's situation.
Depending on the context, it can be seen as trying to "one up" somebody else, it really depends on the person and your relationship. I would say generally the closer the relationship, the more likely they do just want to vent and need a friend to listen.
Personally I would almost never get offended if someone shares how they can relate to me, and probably actually prefer it, but that's just me.
Neither NTs or NDs are a monolith.
I'm NT. The reason it's considered rude is because it can feel like you're trying to compete or to make it about yourself. Usually when someone shares a story like that, they want the focus to be on them for a bit. It's fine to say, "I can relate," or, "I know how that feels," but it's usually best to save the whole story for later.
Hm, well it doesn't feel like, shallow to just get the "that must have been hard" standard issue comment after sharing something vulnerable? To me that just kinda feels dismissive, like the person saying "that must have been hard" is offput, or it would stop the conversation
it's quite shallow. NT communication is shallow generally.
Sometimes when people are feeling a lot, all they want to do is get it off the chest or just simply be heard. "Good listening" usually means "paying attention and not saying a lot in response". Allowing or helping someone to get their story out is usually the most important thing in situations like this. This is where stereotypical "therapist questions" like "How did that make you feel?" fit in.
ND here, and yeah, I'm just as surprised by that response. But fucking noted, damn. My whole life I've done that to try to connect with the person, and I never realized everyone around me thinks I'm rude. It kind of circles back to my definition of friend: an actual friend would have told me it's considered rude and why.
agreed, but thats what they want to hear. In my ND when I get a response like that I would think "oh that person wasnt listening but just putting on the auto-response".
As a fellow NT, this hits it on the head. This can be considered rude for exactly what you say: it can come off as one-upmanship or an inability to not have the conversation be about you. Obviously, the flow of conversation, relationship, tone and topic can change just what exactly this feels like, because there are situations where it can come off as empathetic or an attempt to showing common ground. Like most things in human interaction, there are not hard and fast rules. But if OP needs hard and fast rules because of having trouble parsing things like tone and flow, I would err on the side of not sharing personal story unless specifically asked.
An assumption of needing hard and fast rules because deficient parsing of tone and flow is peak NTness.
And honestly communication does come with pretty stern (unwritten) rules, the people doing them just don't necessarily notice them, because they are very automatic and given. The NT rules have a lot of aspects like face-saving that can be entirely foreign to ND people. And on the other hand the upfrontness of ND people can be very umcomfy to NT people.
The rules are only noticed when someone does not follow them and this is where people with different communication styles get into trouble.
CW death of parent and dog
spoiler
ok so im autistic and i have had this issue with another autistic person. i would talk about my dead mom and then for like the next 20-30 minutes she would talk about her dead dog. this made me feel bad because i do not think the lost of a dog is comparable to the loss of a parent. i also did not like that it felt like for every one minute of talking about my mom she would spend five munites on her dog, i didnt feel i had the space to get into my feelings without having to then comfort her instead. to the point i would simply stop bringing up my mom at all around tihs person because it was emotionally draining. now if im talking about my dead mom and someone else talks about losing their parent that very diffrent in my mind and is in fact a comfort.
It really depends, honestly. Some people just want someone to listen to them. Some people want to be empathized with and sharing from your own experience can be part of that. There's not really a hard and fast rule to follow unfortunately.
Not NT, but going to just say that this is one of the ways NT and ND communication differs.
It's pretty common that Actually Autistic, ADHD and some other neurodivergent brains share relatable stories as a way to connect and empathize.
While all parties can in these situations work to better accomodate the other, ND folks are a minority and more vulnerable in their position. A NT person can ask us to not share stories and explain they just need to vent, but them getting angry at us for our relatable story sharing is not ok and is a problem that forces masking and dismisses our completely valid communication style.
Yeah, but I guess I wanna hear from someone who is NT how they perceive it when it happens. A lot of people just aren't direct at all so I feel it would be more likely that someone would just pull away or share less with me or other people who communicate that way. I also hear this often but haven't heard that it's off putting directly from an NT person before so I just wanna know what goes through each person's mind and if the way I circle back is helpful or not
I'm also interested in what NT people perceive and what the NT expectation in a situation like this is. In my mind, the story sets the theme of the conversation so it only makes sense to relate similar stories. Am I just supposed to say, "Wow, that's awful. I feel for you." and leave it at that?
That's exactly why I'm puzzled about it! The standard issue responses don't feel genuine, or like you want the other person to open up more. But I guess that's all people want, usually. Surface shit
NT communication has a lot of expected rituals and canned responses that make it feel so inhuman. I remember reading in Unmasking Autism that studies show that all the expectations of NT life are not well-received even by NT people. They just refuse to do anything about it because "that's the way it is".
I thought no a good way to do it is to ask questions. Like, if you use only superficial statements, then yeah, it's only surface shit. But people bring up stories because they want to talk. Asking questions about it let's them talk more and let's them get into more depth. The more they talk the more they feel like it's not surface level. Questions like, "how is the rest of your family taking it?", or "are you sleeping ok." I don't know, something.
I also like the suggestion above of relating your story very briefly but bringing it back to them. Like, "last year when my mother died I found the most comforting thing I could do was xxxxx. What are you finding bringing you the most comfort?"
Or something like that. So you still get to relate your empathy through your experience but leave it with a question for them at the end.
Pretty much. The more hollow I make my communications with NT’s lately, the better reception and response I get, but I honestly feel like I’m being rude for not trying to relate.
I get that.Sorry if I came on a bit hard with my ND activism.
Oh no not at all! I agree with you tbh, but yeah a lot of people just take communication styles for granted, I'm sure I do. It just sucks that people don't get it, and that it's hard for me to wrap my head around
Context might matter.
For an event that just happened, maybe the person is looking more to be the center of attention than looking for a person with a shared experience. Same might be applicable if a person is acting upset.
When the even has happened farther in the past it is probably more likely (and more appropriate) to share your story/experiences as an act of comiseration.
Even among n'typicals we don't really know how to handle things.
One of my parents died years ago while I had a full time job, so I gave HR a heads up that I might need to do some short warning "I'm not going to make it to work today to go deal with beauracracy" call-ins. HR let one of my bosses know and they tried to talk to me about it but just kept awkwardly repeating how much it would devastate them if their parent died. While understandable it put me in a situation where I didn't really know how to comfort them being upset that my parent's death got them thinking about their parent hypothetically dying. I just politely nodded until they decided to go away. It was a... very... long five minute interaction.
Oh wow that is SO AWKWARD. Yeah, I definitely know better than your boss to do something like that. Even if they didn't spin out I feel like saying "I don't know what i would do if..." can already turn the attention around so I try to avoid it
I think I tend to connect with people Moreso on past events than current ones, but a good rule of thumb to try to keep in mind
It is definitely easier to navigate a situation were the ratio of Emotion to Experince is closer to 1:1 instead of 10:1.
Many NTs communicate like thas too, and most of the time won't think anything negative about someone doing it. Like most social stuff, it really depends on context
The situations where I've found it really off-putting is when you've been in a conversation with someone for a while and it's mainly been about them and their problems. If I then try to talk about something that's been bothering me and they immediately go right back to a story about themselves it seems less like they're trying to relate and more like they dislike it when they're not the focus of the conversation and don't care about me. If the conversation has been more balanced up until that point it doesn't come of as so self-centered.
If you're unsure, you can keep the conversation focused on them for a while and then tell your own story after. You don't have to just tell them shallow, stock responses either. You could, and it's probably better, to ask questions about how they feel or their plans going forward or whatever else is relevant to the story.
Edit: not neurotypical, but replying anyway I guess :P
Oops, I did this exact thing with this comment. Then I quickly edited it to add a spoiler warning that I'm just going off about my own shit. Thankfully Tommasi didn't take it badly but it has happened to me before. Although when I do talk to other autistic people irl, I notice they do it too, so I just view it as a way that the person I'm talking to is relating their own experience to something I said and letting me know they understand what I'm saying by giving an example from their own life.
Yeah, that's how I've always viewed it even before considering I had an Autism or ADHD diagnosis, it's just very difficult for me to see it as anything but. I hate that it comes off that way and it's soooo hard for me to just shut the fuck up and not say anything lol. Like just saying "I'm sorry", "that sucks", "that must have been hard" makes me feel like I'm therapizing that person, and it just feels so impersonal!
basically my entire friend group and family is autistic so advice may not apply to NTs
i always try asking the person what they want/need from me- like if they come to talk to me and are clearly upset, i ask "hey, what's the best way to support you rn? you wanna rant to me, problem solve, share experiences?" that kinda thing. obvs sometimes people don't know what they need and may need a minute to figure it out, but it's become automatic to us now so i don't often need to ask
also just to clarify- people haven't said you're being rude to your face/made any implications you've picked up on? i've seen people talk about it too so completely understand the worry over it. also culture impacts this kinda thing a lot (as a non-american, i've personally only seen americans say its rude, but social media focuses on them so much idk anymore). if nothing else, you could preface any story with "i experiences a similar thing so totally get where you're coming from" as it might drive the "i'm not trying to make this about me, just supporting your emotions" point home more.
regardless, communication is important and the people worth sticking around should want to talk about these kinda things with you so everyone is supporting each other correctly
Thanks for that, I think asking what their needs are is probably a good segue. I don't think anyone has ever said that I'm being self centered directly, but I have lost friendships and people refused to tell me what I did wrong soooo who knows what people really feel. Just sucks too, to have to be the person to ask what the other needs when that's not afforded to you
such is the life of an AuDHDer thoI have lost friendships and people refused to tell me what I did wrong soooo
Happened to me too, it's actually so upsetting :c Like I'm sure if we talked we could figure it out, but they already gave up on me without even trying and that hurts
Depends on the similarity of involved emotions (at the moment) and issues, is it one on one or in group (here might be advisable to dodge like 80 percent of the times if you are first to do so) and random stuff.
Usually I'd only share something like that in a one on one setting, I think. And usually after I share I'll say something like "all that to say I really relate to the pain/frustration/sadness and can't imagine blablabla". Would that still be annoying though?
Depends on the thingy in question (and very much on recency/freshness of emotions).
bad
Like say someone pet died, if its like a week ago i would ask about the pet themselves, and their life to let person dump their memories (if they want to that is) and cry and/or give a hug, if it's 2 years ago we can bond over sorrow/rage/whatever. If it's death of family member, highly contingent on their relationship (did they love their parent/grandparent, were they estranged, did they hate them for a time, did they hate them period), if i don't know, more likely i would ask around about that stuff first. Sure i grieve my grandparents and great grandparents, but also they were good people, and i can't truthfully say "i know how you feel" in worse situations. I think, i cautiously ask around in general to gauge distress and kinda go from there (?).
i would only find that annoying if it's a fresh stuff vs old thingy. Even if you do know how they feel, it still rubs the wrong way, if it's recent bad stuff. If it's continuous ongoing vs ongoing stuff, also fine to share, i think.
