I don't get why they tie themselves in knots to convince themselves that joe fucking Biden of all people is some hero of the left. If you think he's better than Trump sure I guess whatever but don't try to sell me this horse shit about how he's gonna single handedly save the world because his entire fucking career has een spent engineering the shithole we live in now
Liberals also claim to view fascists and marxists as the same (a la horseshoe theory) but there is some doubt over whether they actually believe this, versus finding it a convenient thing to say in order to consolidate power.
Heres how I see it: the "cosmopolitan bourgeois" wants above all to remain the dominant class. The conservative bourgeois does hate them, but the liberal bourg will do anything to try to remain in their position and will agree to any demand made of them by the conservative bourg, up to and including killing those on the actual left. This probably wont be enough to save them, but they will still do it. They dont do it now because they dont have to yet but i believe that they will if they feel itd save their own skin.
"You fucking idiots, you fucking morons, you're giving away the goddamn game with your stupid antics. Stop fucking shooting poor people just like straight up. Just fucking stop. There's a better way."
There was a civil war analysis thread the other day
i loved that post, but it really gave me a good look of the diferences bourgeois factions in the US that i didnt know existed, i think this election will affect the US stability no matter the outcome
Do you believe that there is no distinction between the Petite Bourgeoisie and the Haute Bourgeoisie? No distinction between industrial capital and finance capital? These are distinctions which have been theorized and observed within the Bourgeoisie for generations.
There is no factional war within bourgeois, there is no evidence of such thing. Their common class interests trumps everything else. There has never been any historical event where bourgeios of one ideology killed bourgeois of other.
Also conservative bourgeois absolutely care about GDP, imperialism, etc. All of those are essential aspects of capitalism.
There's always a diversity of interests within the bourgeoise, a monopolist is in conflict with the petit or simply smaller bourgeois, exporters with importers. Further, the American Civil War was a massive fucking bourgeois conflict between the slave-owning and industrial bourgeoise.
I actually don't totally buy it in 2020. You went overboard with your historical analysis--the bourgeois do fight from time to time--and the ACW is an example.
There literally is. One half wants full-on globalized neoliberalism and the other wants to return to 19th century monopoly capitalism. Trump wouldn't be so decisive if it was just his words that was affecting liberals.
What claim? The claim that the other person didn't provide evidence lol??
Just give me evidence that there is factional war between the bourgeois. Any evidence, even a Jacobin article will do, so that I can analyze it and see how true it is.
I said give me evidence. If there is proof that there exists a real conflict between the bourgeois, surely some experienced political commentators, or Marxist theorists or even the intelligence agencies will be talking about it. Show me any proof at all
It’s double weird cause she made a Twitter post about how he was shir and how she understood peoooe not voting fit him but to please vote local earlier this month.
Look at the comments under the tweet. Plenty of people are saying that. People who honestly believe that biden will bring about a $15 min wage, universal healthcare, etc. Nothing will fundamentally change
There is a difference between acceleration, and simply acknowledging the reality we live in. Increasing militant resistance is being met with violent retaliation and lynchings from the police and armed militia nutjobs. The rhetoric on the right is growing increasingly fascistic, dehumanizing, and detached from reality. Attempts to cook the election are growing more and more blatant, and we have an ascendant center vying for a liberal restoration which is completely comfortable with the state repression being doled out to those inconvenient troublemakers on the left.
It is not accelerationist to declare Biden is not fit for this moment. It is the simple truth. Nor does this small corner of the Internet hold the power to influence events at such a scale. If only we did.
I mean unless lightning was gonna strike Biden's had it since April as the only viable opposition against Trump. So that's it.
If it doesn't happen soon, it's gonna spill over in the streets. Which makes it pretty illusory, honestly. But it's the small things like between a meager raise in minimum wage vs. trying to abolish tips so the establishment gets to keep them all.
If you really think that violence won't still be in the streets even with a Biden presidency, I have a bridge to sell you in New York. The matierial conditions surrounding the animating forces of fear, poverty, and policing won't magically vanish with Biden in office. Christ, it's like you pretend Ferguson never happened.
I don't get why they tie themselves in knots to convince themselves that joe fucking Biden of all people is some hero of the left. If you think he's better than Trump sure I guess whatever but don't try to sell me this horse shit about how he's gonna single handedly save the world because his entire fucking career has een spent engineering the shithole we live in now
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If anything, they hate Marxists more.
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Heres how I see it: the "cosmopolitan bourgeois" wants above all to remain the dominant class. The conservative bourgeois does hate them, but the liberal bourg will do anything to try to remain in their position and will agree to any demand made of them by the conservative bourg, up to and including killing those on the actual left. This probably wont be enough to save them, but they will still do it. They dont do it now because they dont have to yet but i believe that they will if they feel itd save their own skin.
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Does it actually slow it down though?
I'm just about convinced that throwing joe biden into the presidency will just piss off the right wing enough to start thinking about organizing.
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"You fucking idiots, you fucking morons, you're giving away the goddamn game with your stupid antics. Stop fucking shooting poor people just like straight up. Just fucking stop. There's a better way."
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i loved that post, but it really gave me a good look of the diferences bourgeois factions in the US that i didnt know existed, i think this election will affect the US stability no matter the outcome
Never believe anything without proof. Can you find any proof that the bourgeois is divided into factions?
Do you believe that there is no distinction between the Petite Bourgeoisie and the Haute Bourgeoisie? No distinction between industrial capital and finance capital? These are distinctions which have been theorized and observed within the Bourgeoisie for generations.
For example conservative fossil fuel bourgeoisie vs progressive^* tech bourgeoisie.
^* aesthetically
Does Lemmy markdown really not have super script?
Just tested, apparently not unless it's very different from the way reddit does it.
There is no factional war within bourgeois, there is no evidence of such thing. Their common class interests trumps everything else. There has never been any historical event where bourgeios of one ideology killed bourgeois of other. Also conservative bourgeois absolutely care about GDP, imperialism, etc. All of those are essential aspects of capitalism.
There's always a diversity of interests within the bourgeoise, a monopolist is in conflict with the petit or simply smaller bourgeois, exporters with importers. Further, the American Civil War was a massive fucking bourgeois conflict between the slave-owning and industrial bourgeoise.
Ok show me the evidence of this conflict, like anything other than just your opinion. Any source outside of chapo.chat
I actually don't totally buy it in 2020. You went overboard with your historical analysis--the bourgeois do fight from time to time--and the ACW is an example.
Imbecile alert
Ok give me examples of bourgeios killing each other due to ideological conflict
La Violencia, WWII, various Central American civil wars, USAmerican Civil War, revolutions of 1848, argentine coup of 1930, Swiss Civil War
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There literally is. One half wants full-on globalized neoliberalism and the other wants to return to 19th century monopoly capitalism. Trump wouldn't be so decisive if it was just his words that was affecting liberals.
You have no idea what you're talking about, what the hell is "18th century monopoly capitalism"? Please provide sources for your claim.
Provide sources on your claims then, bub.
Jesus christ, logic 101 : It is the person making the claim that is supposed to provide evidence.
You literally already made a claim, removed.
Did you just try to use a slur? Not passing the vibe check
What claim? The claim that the other person didn't provide evidence lol??
Just give me evidence that there is factional war between the bourgeois. Any evidence, even a Jacobin article will do, so that I can analyze it and see how true it is.
https://monthlyreview.org/2004/10/01/monopoly-capitalism/
https://critiqueofcrisistheory.wordpress.com/three-books-on-marxist-political-economy/
Highly recommend reading Anwar Shaikh's criticism of monopoly capital.
But to get to the point, you have shown me no proof of bourgeois factional conflict.
Explain the American Revolution, then.
Slavery vs capitalism
Slavery was capitalist in Amerikkka, what you talking about?
Completely ahistorical take. Even if you dont read books, you understand the concept of New Money vs Old Money, yeah?
I said give me evidence. If there is proof that there exists a real conflict between the bourgeois, surely some experienced political commentators, or Marxist theorists or even the intelligence agencies will be talking about it. Show me any proof at all
They know they fucked themselves.
It’s double weird cause she made a Twitter post about how he was shir and how she understood peoooe not voting fit him but to please vote local earlier this month.
Absolutely none of them say that. They just would rather slow fascism down, not accelerate it like you dixie cups.
Look at the comments under the tweet. Plenty of people are saying that. People who honestly believe that biden will bring about a $15 min wage, universal healthcare, etc. Nothing will fundamentally change
Yes, because fascism is literally a death spiral, so people have existential reactions to it. The weird thing is you "la-de-da" types.
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There is a difference between acceleration, and simply acknowledging the reality we live in. Increasing militant resistance is being met with violent retaliation and lynchings from the police and armed militia nutjobs. The rhetoric on the right is growing increasingly fascistic, dehumanizing, and detached from reality. Attempts to cook the election are growing more and more blatant, and we have an ascendant center vying for a liberal restoration which is completely comfortable with the state repression being doled out to those inconvenient troublemakers on the left.
It is not accelerationist to declare Biden is not fit for this moment. It is the simple truth. Nor does this small corner of the Internet hold the power to influence events at such a scale. If only we did.
I thonk you meant to reply to the comment below mine edit: ope just saw thar you did lol sorry
ahh you're right. ah well.
I mean unless lightning was gonna strike Biden's had it since April as the only viable opposition against Trump. So that's it.
If it doesn't happen soon, it's gonna spill over in the streets. Which makes it pretty illusory, honestly. But it's the small things like between a meager raise in minimum wage vs. trying to abolish tips so the establishment gets to keep them all.
He "had it" because the DNC and corporate media committed blatant election fraud to stop that other, stronger candidate whose name we don't say.
...Jo Jorgensen?
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If you really think that violence won't still be in the streets even with a Biden presidency, I have a bridge to sell you in New York. The matierial conditions surrounding the animating forces of fear, poverty, and policing won't magically vanish with Biden in office. Christ, it's like you pretend Ferguson never happened.
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Kindly shut the fuck up