Need a politics-free safe space? It's called "going for a walk"
"Why do people want to talk about stuff that affects their daily lives so damn much???"
Need a politics-free safe space? It's called stop supporting people who want me dead.
Like I genuinely get mad when people say stuff like "I don't want politics in my x" or whatever, because YEAH. ME FUCKING TOO. Do you know how much I would love not feeling on the defensive at all times due to the pending casual extermination of people like me that you are either supporting or ignoring?????? If all the libs wanted me to be a lib like them they could have simply not made me life hell.
This is the point everyone misses. They forget that other people have problems even if it's not happening to them
If they persecute you for having a different opinion that doesn't enforce anti-tolerance, then they are not liberals.
...
I'm sorry that one whooshed so high over my head I can see it twinkling in the sky.
The expression (don't know the origin) is "scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds." Basically pointing out the historical tendency of liberals to prefer a fascist-managed capitalism if their interests are threatened or it becomes clear the liberal order won't last (and could be replaced from the left).
Thank you!
Definitely a valid expression for when liberals dress up self interest in the guise of principles of freedom.
Not hipocrisy when the left parties enforce the tyranny of the majority though. In that case, the criticism becomes strawman fallacy.
Firstly, that sounds like a shit situation to be in, so please don't think I'm dismissing your struggles here.
I don't live in the same country as you and I have no power to even slightly affect your political situation. I read enough bad news about stuff that I at least have a chance to get involved in that sometimes I want to read some funnies on the internet without having to read about another shit situation. It's not because I don't care, it's because it's not worth stressing out further about something I cannot do anything about.
So yeah, that's why people don't want so see US politics everywhere. Just because something is very important doesn't mean it's very important to everyone.
So yeah, that's why people don't want so see US politics everywhere. Just because something is very important doesn't mean it's very important to everyone.
You'll be happy to know that our news megathread is truly an international one because you get to hear about stuff from around the world
The bare minimum you can do is listen when someone is in pain and stand witness when they are under attack. I want to see when people are suffering, so I can figure out how to help, or at very least show solidarity. Obviously I can't take this in at all hours of every day, but that's time I spend alone or with an IRL friend, not on an online messaging board.
Other way round for me, my IRL time contains the serious shit, I come online for escapism
I don't know why you would go on the "people talking about events" platform and being surprised people are talking about events that aren't happy. That's just poor planning. I mean yeah, be there for your friends, but you should be able to have light or pleasant conversation pretty often, and steer away from troubling topics when you aren't up for it, far easier than online.
Trans rights are important to everyone and under threat in most of the world, so disagree
These are all global problems because they’re caused by global systems lead by a global hegemon, the United States
How do you know what country they live in and if the issue is relavent in your country or not?
I'm getting the impression from Lemmy that there's an overrepresentation of the particular demographic of comfortable middle-aged bookish software engineers who live in the US or Canada.
comfortable middle-aged bookish software engineers who live in the US or Canada.
That seems to be like 95% of both reddit's and lemmy's (or some other federated instances') user-bases.
On the other hand there's also an overrepresentation of tankies. I don't think those are the same people.
"Tankie" is to liberals as "woke" is to conservative liberals and fascists.
What word would you prefer to someone who tells you to your face that they intend to "put you up against the wall" and then asks if you "know what that means, you fucking lib"?
I mean, I'm a demsoc, and of the last 20 death threats I have received in my life, 15 came from people who identify as Communist-Leninist. PLEASE give me a better word for them.
Funny because of the dozens, if not hundreds, of death threats I've gotten, practically all of them come from zionists, NAFOs, keyboard nazis or the occasional trumpeteer.
Full disclosure, as a leftist I avoid those far-right areas like the plague. I'm quite certain I would receive more far-right death threats if I did not.
so you admit that you get mostly leftist death threats because you avoid groups that would send more?
You sound like a vooshite when you talk in this childish way, aren’t you embarrassed
people get death threats from groups they disagree with, you haven't been in any fandoms, much less online groups in general, if you don't know this.
So you're just talking out your ass then????
The times I tell people to go fucking die are if they're nazis, transphobes, or cops basically
You sad about me telling nazis to face the wall?
Edit: Sorry, I see now that you're not the person who made that claim, I stand by everything I said though. Also, lmao, you dont even have an example and you're this defensive about someone else?
What word would you prefer to someone who tells you to your face that they intend to "put you up against the wall" and then asks if you "know what that means, you fucking lib"?
Based
None, just liberals willing to go along to get along with fascists. Which you are.
You don't know the difference between a demsoc and a socdem. You're not any kind of socialist, just a lib who likes the idea of being seen as leftist.
And I bet you're fun at parties. Please oh great psychic, tell me more about myself?
And actually, I do know the difference between demsoc and socdem. The formal definition for Social Democrat is "a supporter or advocate of a socialist system of government achieved by democratic means." That we are constantly painted as "filthy liberal" for wanting to respect the will of the majority is a disappointing and disgusting lie. And the ONLY people who accuse socdems of being fake leftists? TANKIES. Who are not, by any meaningful definition, more left than those of us with a soul.
The only way I'm not a leftist is if your version of leftism says "fuck people, freedom, or democracy". In **your ** version of leftism, are you ok with being the 1% ruling by force against 99% who hate you? Think very carefully before replying to that.
And I bet you're fun at parties
Social Democrat is "a supporter or advocate of a socialist system of government achieved by democratic means."
That's what a demsoc is. Social democrats support capitalism with social programs.
Who are not, by any meaningful definition, more left than those of us with a soul.
Speaking of succdems look how even in their mind palace they're already dehumanizing anyone to the left of them. This helps when they cooperate with and enable fascist parties like they do every time in history. "Tankies don't have a soul and they're going to kill you first so it's okay to let the nazis kill them actually" I'm a REAL leftist :D
Social Democrat is “a supporter or advocate of a socialist system of government achieved by democratic means.”
That’s what a demsoc is. Social democrats support capitalism with social programs.
You should tell Webster they're wrong. And Wikipedia. And Brittanica.
By their definitions, a Socdem's insistence on using democracy at all costs is what differentiates between them and demsocs.
By why is it so important for you to insist everyone use your nonstandard definition of the terms? Also, your calling us "succdems" tells me exactly everything I need to know about your permission. If I'm not willing to murder people, I'm less than human to you enough to be given a silly nickname.
“Tankies don’t have a soul and they’re going to kill you first so it’s okay to let the nazis kill them actually” I’m a REAL leftist :D
At this moment, you're on the wrong side of the "First they came for" poem because you're the one rejecting the Left.
You should tell Webster they're wrong. And Wikipedia. And Brittanica.
Not to call the editors of those fine resources for elementary school aged children stupid or anything, but the adjective-noun pairs "social democrat" and "democratic socialist" literally imply within the terms themselves what these things are. A democratic socialist is a socialist who uses democratic means. It's on the tin.
At this moment, you're on the wrong side of the "First they came for" poem because you're the one rejecting the Left.
This has to be a bit
What does that have to do with you referencing a poem you never read the first two lines from?
Can you show us a time this happened? Genuinely, people shouldn't throw around death threats to anyone but war criminals billionaires nazis transphobes and cops, so if thats happening to you just because you're an average liberal I don't support that
or I'll have to assume you were on some cracker shit and actively supporting or being one of the aforementioned groups, in which case, lmao haha
I'm less than human to you enough to be given a silly nickname
did you think this one through at all? like, give it even a seconds thought?
Social democracy, noun
a democratic welfare state that incorporates both capitalist and socialist practicesSo, uh, capitalist, according to Webster. It is very funny to say "I totally know the difference between SocDem and DemSoc", and then go on to not know.
However, I'll write something up here. I'm from Denmark, a SocDem country. The current prime minister is Mette Frederiksen of the Social Democrat party. We are almost at SocDem as you can get.
This Social Democracy of Denmark formed around the time of the Soviet Union starting to get more influential, as the capitalists of Denmark found themselves needing to provide concessions to the working population, since an example of better worker rights was right next door. This was the birth of Social Democracy in Denmark. It expanded to have free healthcare, education, and a pretty strong social safety net. Now these things are of course nice for the people living in Denmark, however the second that the USSR fell, austerity started happening. I cannot remember a time in the last 20 years where the government wasn't trying to "save money". Now our healthcare system is crippled, education is getting defunded, and social safety is the same.
The only reason that the capitalist class of Denmark gave the concessions they did, was because the Soviet Union was next door. This is the reality. The capitalists will never give you anything, unless their security is threatened. To be a Social Democrat, and rejecting revolution as a concept, is to just play into what capitalists want. Social Democracy is just another way to preserve capitalism. It's not a solution, it's a band-aid for a bullet wound - might stop the bleeding for a bit, but it sure as hell will get infected if it's not treated properly. At best it's harm reduction, at worst it's a detriment to the rights of the working class.
I'm not even getting into the exploitation necessary to uphold Social Democracy, and some of the other more icky elements of the ideology. I'm just giving you an example of what has happened to every single Social Democracy currently. I understand that it's nice to think about, but I promise you that it's not the solution to the problem.
The DemSocs at least have a problem with capitalism, however while their insistence on pacifism, and reform sounds very nice, it has literally not worked once in history. Not a single time. One of the only time it got close was with Allende in Chile, and the US fucking killed him, because you cannot fight empire with just words. I'm sorry, but that is the truth. You need to be able to fight counter-revolution, sabotage, sanctions, threats, war, espionage, etc. You cannot do this within the system that is funding all those things. You have to move away from capitalism entirely, suddenly, and forcefully, otherwise you will be crushed.
Call me a tankie if you want, I don't care. But if you are going to call me this, at least tell me why. Tell me what part of what I just wrote is wrong.
Sorry, cited the wrong dictionary I guess. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/social%20democrats . I'm surprised at Webster disagreeing with everyone else. I figured every dictionary would agree. The dictionaries using my definition are:
Collins, Dictionary.com, Oxford English Dictionary, Brittanica, Cambridge, Wictionary
So I've got mud on my face, citing the only source that disagrees with me.
But fine. If it really matters that much to a couple people, then there's not a term for what I am. I'm not a DemSoc because I don't realistically think we will achieve complete socialism in my lifetime and I think that's OK in the short term as long as we improve things, and actually preferable until people actually want socialism. That doesn't make me a capitalist.
Also you're going off mainstream liberal dictionaries and not how the left as a cluster of organized movements has come to definitions for its working purposes. So you're coming at it from an outside (liberal) perspective which reads as an indicator you're a liberal.
The problem with dictionaries is that they describe the popular use of a word, not necessarily the academically correct one. I only used the dictionary because it was honestly too easy to do a gotcha there.
A great example of dictionaries being "wrong" is the word "factoid". A factoid originally is a popular piece of information that is actually incorrect or false - a popular lie. Now the word factoid is in many dictionaries described as being "an insignificant or trivial fact", which is like, the exact opposite of the original meaning of the word. I'm 100% sure that in certain universities, I would be marked down for using "factoid" as "fun fact", even though dictionaries seem to think this is fine.
The original meaning of the word Social Democrat was a heavily discussed topic even in the beginning of the Soviet Union. After WW2, it was even popular within Socialist/Communist circles to call SocDems, "Social Fascists", as the enabling of the SocDems in Germany (SPD) helped the Nazis attain power, since they positioned themselves against the rest of the "left". SocDems will always rather align themselves with capital, rather than the "actual left", because the entire ideology reinforces capitalism. The reason people are mad at you here, is that SocDems have historically, every single time, helped the fascists rather than the socialists when push comes to shove. It's the reason for the quote "Social Democracy is the moderate wing of fascism". Now you can disagree with that last part, but this is history. Schumacher did betray the socialists. And he always would have, because Social Democracy is a capitalist ideology, which is why Marxists refuse to let them call themselves socialists. You cannot believe in capitalism, and socialism at the same time. They are opposites.
DemSocs on the other hand, are Reformist Socialists. They are who the dictionaries should actually refer to. They are the people who believe that a peaceful reformist transition from capitalism to socialism is the way to go, even though it has never worked. They believe that if you just vote hard enough, the capitalists will just let the poor take away their power. I don't actively dislike them, but I think it is very very naive.
Marxists are usually Revolutionary Socialists, who believe in revolution as a way to make change. This has worked several times in history, and there are several countries in the world right now that still exist after a socialist revolution, and are doing as well as you can considering that the entire western world is sanctioning them.
Marx hated Social Democrats btw. When one of the founding figures of the ideology does not think that a Social Democrat is a socialist, then I dunno what to tell you.
In short, the dictionaries are wrong. In an academic setting those definitions would be rejected instantly. People just do not understand what these ideologies are, so they use the words the wrong way. These words get used the wrong way enough, and the dictionaries will change to fit, as that is what dictionaries do. But the original meaning, that is part of the books that many of us read about these subjects, do not match with the dictionaries. If you referred to dictionary definition in a Political Science class, you would not pass, I assure you.
Thank you for your comments they are packed with good info btw
I appreciate the kind words, thank you. Might as well use my experience with Social Democracy for something, because it always bothers me when people think it's the solution.
God, you're such a big dumb idiot of a lib. That's the definition of a democratic socialist, not a social democrat - you can tell by the way one of the groups are call socialists and the others are called democrats. Not only did you mix up your definitions, but you never actually managed to define democratic socialist - do you really know what the difference is if you can't even remember to talk about one of them? The answer, scrolling down your post history to where you called yourself a socdem, is no, you think they're the exact same thing, because you don't even have a surface level understanding of leftism. It only takes 5 minutes in leftist spaces to discover that anarchists, socialists, and communists of all flavour hate socdems for exactly your "no really, somehow we'll manage to vote socialism in this time" attitude, but you've never spent a single minute in them, because you're not a leftist.
My version of leftism is called Marxism and is based in historical reality and current material conditions. Your version is fantastical utopianism that's convinced the elite are just going to give up the reigns any day now.
Death threats are an inappropriate and disproportiate response but have you considered that it is because you're more irritating to the left than you are to the right? Especially given how right wingers historically are massively more violent?
Oh fuck off lol. The biggest instance literally preemptively removedd from everyone left of Bernie Sanders. Go back to reddit if you're afraid of getting called out for being politically illiterate.
I'm guessing your autocorrect didn't like the word "defederated" and turned it into a word that's a slur if you don't include the 'd' at the end? lol
also I agree with your comment.
edit- Who wouldn't want to be called an outfox?
Lol yeah I was on my way back from my lunch break when I typed that no clue what it autocorrected too
I'm guessing it dropped the F and rearranged the rest into the R slur. I can't think of any other word with most of those letters, and it is a word otuside of the slur context, a verb meaning "to slow down"
Defederate but with a g for the f and a n for the d is also filtered iirc.
there's no such thing as a tankie, the word literally has no meaning
Death to America
Okay so I followed the first part, you want Russians dead and all that, it's the thing rn. But you realize saying "launch the nukes" is exactly the same thing as "death to America" but with more steps, right?
You don’t even know the name of the party. Don’t speak on things you clearly know nothing about
"Everyone to the left of me isn't being actively purged from the platform and it's not to my tastes"
Fucking leave then
Now this is a post I can get behind.
Take a hike, hug a tree, run your fingers through blades of grass, stare at nature and take it in.
Maybe even get a cheeky grill in while you're at it
Alright so what you need is 3 large portobello mushrooms, ¼ cup canola oil (or oil of your choice), ¼ cup balsamic vinegar, 3 tablespoons chopped onion, and 4 minced cloves garlic.
First Clean the mushrooms; remove stems, reserving them for another use. Place mushroom caps gill-side up in a shallow dish.
Then Combine oil, balsamic vinegar, onion, and garlic in a small bowl. Pour mixture evenly over mushroom caps; let marinate at room temperature for 1 hour.
Go and Preheat the grill to medium-high heat; grease the grate.
Lastly, Grill those suckers over the hot grill until caramelized and tender, about 5 minutes per side; serve warm.
you do drink the mushroom water that collects in the cap while grilling, right? you cant just pour that out!
Lies! I went outside and I saw a poster about CLIMATE CHANGE, and then I turned the corner and heard a family complaining about minimum wage being too low! So unfair, I just want to be ignorant of other people's suffering.
If I wasn't a slave constantly in fear of malnourishment, illness, homelessness, police violence, jail and/or pain, I might not care so much.
Just work harder, plebe. Everything is working just fine (for me)
You know how if a pipeline is blocked, the pressure will continue to build up, backing up with oil, seeping it into everything nearby because it can't go forward, until eventually a rupture occurs? That's why "everything is political these days."
Also every person who bitches about safe spaces: "ban dresses on men because it makes me feel funny"
Lemmy has some very aggressive communists.
I’ve been lucky enough to dodge the crazy right wingers though.
i wonder if maybe not having right wingers has something to do with having aggressive communists to run hem off.No. It must be lib magic
Thats a real self own. Do you think you voted away the "greater evil", or libs did anything to make them go away?
You are the lesser evil. And we're not fine with you.
I'm not your buddy lib. Why would i be your buddy when you think I'm comparable to a fascist?
I'm supposed to trip over myself to be civil to you when you call us the "lesser evil" to fascism?
Damn, we found their trigger word! Lesser evil! LESSER EVIL!
It's funny how hypocritical you are right now, too. You wanna label "liberals" as fascist, but get all pissy when the same happens to you with the same amount of credibility.
What's funny is that you lot all seem to fail to realize that "Liberalism" is not inherently left or right wing, unless you are a reductionist who doesn't believe that social liberalism exists and only believe Classic Liberalism exists. You all talk big about your political knowledge and how nuanced your beliefs are, and then you fall victim to the classic conservative notion of reductionism. Seeing "lib" used as an insult around here is just as hilariously pathetic as all the "snowflake" shit
trigger word
It's funny how
What's funny is
Terminal reddit brained response
I never called a lib a fascist. Liberalism is inherently right wing because its the ideology of capitalism. I understand that there's distinctions between different types of liberals, and between them and fascists. I did call libs like you and the other poster, to use their phrase "the lesser evil" because you support capital but arent fascists.
If you don't like being lumped in with other right wing tendencies then stop supporting capital. Its not our fault that reality is marxist
I enjoyed the whiplash from screaming a taunt at you like the most obnoxious kid on the playground into that detached passive aggressive mode.
Why are you lot so obsessed with reddit? Can't you leave that place behind? I mean, haven't you ever thought that people on reddit talk the way they do because its how most people online in general talk? Reddit didn't invent linguistic trope. I digress.
And what makes you think I am a libertarian? What makes you think I support capitalism? Just because I don't directly support your exact ideology doesn't mean you get to straw man the criticism away. You and your ilk with that and ad hominem, or some other fallacy. Never able to directly hold an argument on it's own merits. It's fuckin hilarious lmao
Lmao, you are one to talk about being pretentious. Hypocrisy is definitely your watchword.
Also, dont know why my comment said libertarian, definitely meant to write liberal and my shit must have autocorrected. I definitely have a political ideology, and its democratic socialism, which staunchly criticizes Marxist-leninist ideology. Like I said before, I dont agree with your philosophy but that doesnt make me a liberal or right-wing or anything. We agree on a lot of fundamental ideals, but theres a lot of disconnect, too.
I know you folk always have a "you're with me or you're against me" attitude, which makes sense considering your authoritarian nature. I think its just fun how easy it is to set you off. I mean, I can leave one half-baked comment and you guys swarm like vultures! I can see how the gish gallop is so successful.
So you're one of those people that only support socialists who lose. Not a lot of room to talk about hypocrisy then, that's your whole ideology. Makes sense you're also into using logic pedant terms
What are you even talking about? This is the least comprehensible comment I've seen here. Everything you've said here has nothing to do with anything I've said; it's the trifecta of straw man, non sequitur, and red herring. And using terms for logical argumentation doesn't make me pedantic, it makes me able to precisely detail why and how your logic doesn't work. I can see why you are afraid of that.
And, predictably, when all else fails, you basically resort to "no u"
You non-sequitur-ed, you double straw man-ed, you red herring-ed. Its not pedantic unless its from the pedant region of France. This is just sparkling smugness.
Ipso facto absurdeum, Checkmate tankie
I'm sorry that you couldn't comprehend my post, i was being pretty clear. You're one of those western left anti-communists. You dont support actually existing socialist states. You think the men and women of the world who have fought revolutions and built real world socialist projects did it, or are doing it wrong. People like that usually have admiration for socialists who failed to bring a project into the real world, where their actions could be critiqued, where mistakes can happen and be visible, because only projects that aren't real can live up to your idealist vision of socialism.
Mocking you for logic pedantry, and reddit debate bro bullshit to be fair is technically unrelated from your "ideology." But there's an obvious connection to how people who don't find actual real world socialist projects worth supporting would also be into flinging thise terms around like anyone outside of online debate perverts would care
Damn, that's a lot of wrong assumptions about me you just made. I can see that you lack the intelligence to actually see that I never really said much about my own ideology, so basically anything that you just tried to claim about me was pulled deep from inside your anus, and is objectively wrong. For the most part I actually support even communist states, but my main criticism with actual communist states is their authoritarianism, made easy by the inherent totalitarianism of communism.
Big problem with your criticism tho: there aren't any true socialist states that exist today. There aren't any states that have successfully fully implemented a socialist society today. A society where the actual individual workers own and control all the means of production, where all basic needs are met, and people are guaranteed the right to their freedoms. I absolutely support and laud the people out there working to achieve those goals. I don't think any state will ever be able to perfectly achieve those goals, so I don't expect perfection out of my fellow socialists. I do expect the abolition of the class, however, and that has never really even been close to being achieved. Not for a lack of trying, but because there is always some asshole who wants to be above others, and they have been very good at fucking things up for the rest of us.
And, you know, that gets me thinking... this whole conversation is exactly what capitalists want; infighting. You think I'm not radical enough for you, so you then label me as completely opposed to you. The problem is, I can guarantee we share a great many ideals, but you are too busy gatekeeping to allow others with slightly different but reconcilable ideals to be allies.
That is, of course, if I suspend my disbelief that you are a capitalist troll who is spitting vitriol, trying to make communists look belligerent and inhospitable.
Your explanation of your beliefs just proved me right. My thoughts about you didn't come from my ass they honestly came from Michael Parenti Black Shirts and Reds
All governments are authoritarian, its a useless word. I didn't make that up either. Its from Engels On Authority
Totalitarian is a bullshit concept invented during the Cold War to conflate fascism with communism, similar to double genocide theory, to use against communist states. To say its inherent to communism is like saying killing 10 gorillion dead, Vuvvezzuula, no food, no iphone, is inherent to communism.
You believe these things because you're a left anti-communist. You can say that you arent, and then continue to describe to us all the ways that you are again if you want.
And, you know, that gets me thinking...
No, no it hasn't gotten you thinking. If we share values, then why do you attack us. There's more than once where you've popped off saying something weird directed at us. If you think our differences are reconcilable, why not lead with that?
Instead you started with TRIGGER WORD, and some comment about us being the same as fascists by saying we're like Hannah Montana or something. Then you dicked around flinging out your straw mans and ad hominems and no true scotsmans instead of telling us about your ideology or making a real critique about ours.
I can see that you lack the intelligence to actually see that I never really said much about my own ideology,
And, you know, that gets me thinking... this whole conversation is exactly what capitalists want; infighting. You think I'm not radical enough for you, so you then label me as completely opposed to you. The problem is, I can guarantee we share a great many ideals, but you are too busy gatekeeping to allow others with slightly different but reconcilable ideals to be allies.
Gatekeeping? That was always the issue I had with "democratic" socialists who have
positions, but insist that they're the 'democratic' ones because they want to make sure the slaveowners keep getting a vote (and continue existing).You really think you did something here with that wall of cringe text
Remind me what happened with Allende yesterday in 1973, and what happened to the Indonesian communists?
You straw mann-ed, you ad hominem-ed, you no true scotsmann-ed, then you mot and bailey-ed
Checkmate to you and your ilk tankie. And its hilarious, btw lol, lmao even
Who the fuck is anita sarkeesian?
And what makes you think I'm a liberal?
i know! I can't help but wonder what were in the discarded drafts
Nah I'm pretty sure it's the same reason why Hannah Montana and Miley Cyrus are never seen in a room together
Yes I go into a phone booth as my normal commie antifa self and come out as Chudly Dugsfermpt local pool supply company owner and lover of Milton Friedman
meanwhile in the real world it's liberals and fascists who are joined at the hip https://orgrad.wordpress.com/articles/liberalism-the-two-faced-tyranny-of-wealth/
Wait are you trying to say we're the same people?
Or that the reason is so simple why we're not in the same rooms together that a child should be able to understand it?
I think the implication is we're addicted to a magical potion that transforms us into an evil alter ego who causes mischief in town
And then we get to hang out with Abbott and Costello
And then we get to hang out with Abbott and Costello
It's just a single monk:
Show
Yeah I might be pushing for universal liberation during the day but at night I put on my maga hat and try to create fun new unjust hierarchies /s
you're either a hilarious poster or a sad joke
yeah sure the people who want everyone fed and housed for free and who require pronouns are right wing.
Yes, every night I stop being a bisexual trans communist and put on my MAGA-Man leotard superhero suit and start ranting about immigrants and the woke gender ideology to people on the street
Almost like the very aggressive communists have a nose for right wing nut jobs and relentlessly hound them until they log out
I think that’s awful an immature behavior. When you fight idiocy with aggression (at least on social media) you just get idiots who think they must be right and start truth social or something
How do you deal with fascists? Facts and logic in the free marketplace of ideas(tm)?
I usually just ignore them.
I find that a lot of crazy right wingers do it to “own the libs” or get a rise out of their supposed enemies. It’s all just a sports game to people like that.
If you ignore them they get bored and stop being so staunch in their awful beliefs. When you fight with them it makes them feel like they’re right. You end up forcing them to rationalize every shitty position.
Almost nobody posts on the internet trying to challenge and reconsider their beliefs, so it’s not like you’re going to change their mind anyway.
I mean that’s what I think, at least
I usually just ignore them.
Does ignoring the fascists make them go away? Please.
If you ignore them they get bored and stop being so staunch in their awful beliefs. When you fight with them it makes them feel like they’re right. You end up forcing them to rationalize every shitty position.
So now you're accusing us of making fascists more fascist, as an excuse for your ridiculous theory of just ignoring fascism.
like you’re going to change their mind anyway.
Its not even about changing their minds. Its about forcing them out of shared spaces. Fascists should driven out, shamed, harassed, and redacted.
What you think is lib bullshit that gets your spaces infiltrated and taken over by fascists and reactionaries.
You want to ignore them fine, but don't condescend to people who confront them and drive them out of shared spaces as if you have a more "mature" solution. Your solution is literally "if i close my eyes they go away" baby logic
And here we see an aggressive communist in the wild. You have a good day, dude
You said a bunch a bullshit and got called on it. Agressive much tankie.
Fuck all the way off dude
Prime example of libs believing in nothing but self assured smugness and civility. And in the wild no less
We actually study history and read shit. Like I just finished reading Long Walk to Freedom & Armed and Dangerous, both are a fairly good firsthand on how "fascists" respond to non-violence and only start to have reservations when the oppressed shoot back.
Oh and
"The real fascists are the fascists who won't let me fascist 😭"
Cool story bro
It’s just polarizing. You’re just making people more staunch in their beliefs or just annoying people who would rather not deal with aggression (like myself)
If your goal is to drive people away and make a space where everyone just agrees with you all the time then it’s effective.
Fascism has only ever been defeated through violence, not through "changing people's minds"
This is really the point to hammer home. Back in my lib days, I started hanging out with a dude who was much cooler than me, and his anarchist friends. We once got to talking about how our town used to have a pretty substantial neo-nazi presence, in the 80s-90s. I said something to the effect of "good thing people are smarter today!" and he and his friends got really animated and saying how "they didn't just go away one day, we fucking chased them out of here!"
While at first I just didn't like getting yelled at, it eventually dawned upon me that that he was right. I, and everyone I had ever talked to about it (other libs), just assumed that that whole unpleasant nazi thing just went away, through the magic of progress, presumably. It was just a thing that was there once, now wasn't. People like him and his friends (and I've since met many more) were the actual people who went out and risked life and limb to oppose the nazis everywhere the went, to vandalize their posters and stickers the moment they went up, to show up in numbers every time there was a demonstration. To do everything to make life as shitty as possible for these pieces of shit until it just wasn't really viable to be a nazi in our town anymore.
That whole realization did a lot to cure me of my "we can't sink to their level"/freezepeach brainworms.
Polarization is clarifying. It drives away fascists which protects their targets and makes spaces safe for them. It also exposes people who would more readily share spaces with fascists and just ignore them than with the people who oppose them.
If it drives away people like you who ignore fascism, yet want to argue that opposing it is immature, then that's a bonus
When you fight with them it makes them feel like they’re right. You end up forcing them to rationalize every shitty position.
Literal fascist talking point. "Look what you made me do"
I mean that’s what I think, at least
Investigate before you start thinking next time. Are trans children out there looking for fights just by existing or is your belief that fascists need to be provoked first founded on nothing but bullshit?
Thanks for ignoring the people who want us dead, very mature and polite of you!!!!
Yknow I’m talking about on social media platforms, right?
Frothing at the mouth raging at someone on a social media platform doesn’t do anything but cause more radicalization, so I just ignore people instead. I don’t spend most of my life fighting with people on the internet over politics.
Frothing at the mouth raging at someone on a social media platform doesn’t do anything but cause more radicalization
Are you deadass actually suggesting that people are transphobic ableist nazis because communists go after nazis online?
or are you saying that it radicalizes more people into avid antifacsist communists, which is an unambiguously good thing (unless youre on team nazi)
This is a real question, please answer.
I don’t spend most of my life fighting with people on the internet over politics.
You won't push back on fascists, but you can't shut up when pushing back against people who believe in pushing back fascism.
cause more radicalization
Its been pointed out multiple times now that this is literally a fascist talking point. Pushing back against fascism is not what makes people fascist. In fact its how we protect the targets of fascism on shared spaces online or off.
As has also been pointed out to you some people just existing is seen as an incitement by fascists. What are they supposed to do? They can't just ignore threats and the invalidation of their humanity. That you can shut your eyes to that says a lot about you.
They can do whatever they want.
I don’t care what other people do, I just ignore people I don’t think are worth failing with.
And yeah pass judgement if you want, but how I choose to deal with people on the internet is up to me.
And yeah pass judgement if you want, but how I choose to deal with people on the internet is up to me.
Yeah, and you're a bad person for choosing to act this way. Points for owning it though tbh
And yet here you are failing.
Great to hear that the targets of fascism "can do whatever they want." They don't have a choice in the matter of being a target, unlike you obviously.
I've already told you this but our goal isn't to change fascists minds. Its to drive them away, to shame them. To not allow them to spew their bullshit or attack their targets without resistance.
Pushing fascists out of our spaces is the only way people whose existence is targeted by fascism can actually "do whatever they want."
I have no goal here. Just sharing my opinions. Not failing to do anything.
Yeah being aggressive is good for driving people away. And yknow given that your goal is actually to drive people away I was wrong to say it’s immature.
I just don’t like aggression. I don’t go on the internet looking for fights.
Your posts are "just sharing your opinion"
Our posts are "aggressive"
Pure lib shit.
We're sharing our opinions, because of the things you said. Maybe you're not looking for "fights," but you know how to start them
Regardless of handwringing about it, the fact remains that we've driven out and proud fascists off of lemmy instances that we're federated with. The simple existence of hexbear pulls the Lemmy overton window so far left that social democrats are now the right wingers - this is a good thing.
Are you fucking kidding me m8?
This shit is ridiculous, look at what you posted!!
Which sounds great until you realize that many of them define right wing nut jobs as anyone who's not a Marxist-Leninist
Edit: LMAO exhibit A below me. "We're not sectarian, they're just not real leftists." Yeah guys, you're doing exactly what I said
You're allowed to be most branches of socialist or anarchist without us considering you right wing, we are a non-sectarian space.
In much of human behavior there tends to be a divide between what we say and what we do. This is no exception
we are highly anti sectarian, youre just a natoid anarcho bidenist, not a leftist
The -oid suffix, as an insult, has a long history of ableism and racism. Maybe you should work on being better instead of projecting your bigotry by appropriating Marxist-flavored gotchas
Im an autistic trans person, but guess some NT Cishet would know more about bigotry than me
You're telling me huh
Im looking through several hate speech websites and I'm not seeing a single thing about what you saying, anyway. Just a single reddit post (ofc) with no linked information.
I am sorry (to myself I guess) for using bigoted language (... to myself? like who am I hurting here besides using language that targets me) and I would love for more information on the subject. If I'm wrong, im happy to take the L and throw such language away.
but here revised:
You are a fake leftist that simps for imperialist and colonialist organizations founded in collaboration with nazis. You are useless to the worldwide movement and no matter how hard you work, you will be doing so in the wrong direction, and would be as useless as you are right now. You use problems of people far worse off than yourself as a shield to help ignore everything you do wrong when you should be using it to look at yourself. You "don't care how anyone identifies" until it is used against you. You ignore the actual fascists and racists because they would not harm you, and you know it. Go take your nonsense to someone who would actually care, you sorry excuse for a leftist. Your liberalism will never be accepted anywhere that has anything more than surface level political knowledge, and that is completely fine by me.
This is just one example
You are a fake leftist that simps for imperialist and colonialist organizations founded in collaboration with nazis. You are useless to the worldwide movement and no matter how hard you work, you will be doing so in the wrong direction, and would be as useless as you are right now. You use problems of people far worse off than yourself as a shield to help ignore everything you do wrong when you should be using it to look at yourself. You "don't care how anyone identifies" until it is used against you. You ignore the actual fascists and racists because they would not harm you, and you know it. Go take your nonsense to someone who would actually care, you sorry excuse for a leftist. Your liberalism will never be accepted anywhere that has anything more than surface level political knowledge, and that is completely fine by me.
LMAO!!!!!!!!
This is just one example
that gives a 404 error message with a picture of nixon.
And wow, got me, lmao
how old are you? You shouldn't be online so young.
that gives a 404 error message with a picture of nixon.
Idk what's up with your browser then it's hatebase.org/vocabulary/removed
Don't act like your infantile scrawl deserved anything but an equally infantile response
Edit: Since others can't see the link, suffice to say that -oid insults are based on outdated words for people with downs syndrome, and those of obsolete race "science."
Obviously the -oid suffix can also mean "like," but that is not the context in which it is used as an insult.
Don't act like your infantile scrawl deserved anything but an equally infantile response
too stupid to understand that you were completely owned in that exchange
Or - if you use your brain you'll realize it - vomiting personal insults means absolutely nothing when the other is anonymous online
But they weren't personal insults. They're insults towards your political ideology.
we have a slur filter with a bad case of sremovedhorpe problem, so we see hatebase.org/vocabulary/removed
Ah, well maybe that's why the link wouldn't work in the first place? Oh well, thanks for explaining. Edited to provide some context for those that can't use the link
Keep up? You mean like stay on the page and hit refresh a bunch to stay up to date?
And how are you acting condescending right now? You had this whole long argument because you believed the -oid suffix held the meaning of a slur that used it. You looked up the thing you already thought instead of looking up the thing you were encountering.
you believed the -oid suffix held the meaning of a slur that used it.
Not what I said. I'm saying it's used in reference to multiple slurs because it is. Unless calling me a natoid is supposed imply that I'm like NATO, but it's not. It's meant to imply that people who support NATO are mentally deficient, and so it's a reference to a slur
Actually it is, we enforce our anti-sectarian rules.
You got a trite truism for every time you say shit without investigating it and are told you're wrong about it?
Here's a bare-bones answer to get whether or not you're a right-winger or Left-winger. I emphasize again, this is a bare-bones answer that's leaving out a lot of other stuff.
Who should have ownership over the means of production, or Capital Goods if you want to use non-marxist lingo. If you say the working class should have ownership over the means of production then you're left-wing. If you say capitalists should have ownership over the means of production then you're right-wing.
Yeah I can get behind this, and I'd say you're right that it's the bare-bones definition of the economic left vs right divide.
But then you have people who will look at market socialists, anarchists, or some other brand of leftism and call them secret fascists or something like that. It's my experience (and yours may differ) that MLs are eager to insist that theirs is the only way and dismiss the rest.
Not all MLs are this dogmatic. But when a leftist is this dogmatic, they always seem to be ML
fake Marxists who ignore the basics of marxist? heck yeah we hate them. I've yet to see any fake anarchists or MLs on hexbear that werent immediately banned tho
But then you have people who will look at market socialists, anarchists, or some other brand of leftism and call them secret fascists or something like that. It's my experience (and yours may differ) that MLs are eager to insist that theirs is the only way and dismiss the rest
What you're describing is the analysis of Marxism-Leninism on other socialist tendencies based off of the historical materialist end results of their respective ideologies. A very simple example of this would be is how Marxists would prod anarchists as being more idealist over materialist over the fact that the more idealist members of the anarchist faction advocate for the immediate and total abolishment of the penal system can't reconciliate the fact that anarchists reestablished the penal system during the Spanish Civil War on their turf due to the material conditions they faced forcing them to make that decision. There's a lot more to this discussion that's being left out with plenty of worthwhile perspectives from all Left factions on the civil war in regards to this and much more.
It's in this regard that marxists will ruthlessly critique all ideological threads and each other all in the name of finding the most materially realistic path to Socialism within their respective home countries - and historically, revolution is the only means to the goal of establishing the dictatorship of the proletariat and a scientific socialist society.
There is not a valid distinction between economic left and political left, or economic right and political right.
There is the left and its various tendencies and ideologies (anarchists, communists, MLs, etc.) And the right and its various tendencies (liberals, conservatives, libertarians, fascists etc.)
If your upset about your ideological proximity to conservatives, it sounds like a you problem
The people I see deploying this take the most are the same people who think Democrats are communists
It's like studying an ecosystem; once you see the fascists, the aggression of the communists suddenly makes sense
"If you do not interfere in politics, politics will eventually interfere in your life." - Vladimir Lenin
I'm genuinely curious what's the difference between talking about our lives and politics?
Talking about inconveniences and commiserating with others is just life. Acknowledging systemic issues may be the source of your misfortune is politics.
- I had to wait aong time in traffic today.
✔️
- Public transit would be a nice alternative.
🚨🚨🚨 POLITICS DETECTED 🚨🚨🚨
politics is inherently tied to each of our daily lives
Every boss, every landlord, every school board member, every person on your HOA committee you will ever interact with is deeply involved in politics and that has a direct impact on your life, whether you realize it or not.
You are the textbook definition of what we refer to as the "out to brunch liberal" who gets annoyed at how the poors caring about their conditions inconveniences your entertainment and treat consumption.
The best part about this for any marxists reading is that your user history is filled with art deco posts.
And therein lies the problem, you and a lot of people like you, genuinely can't differentiate life and politics
the problem is precisely that for us politics has a practical effect on our daily lives. we have to worry about it, and talk about it, because if we simply let things go we get absolutely fucked
good for you that your current condition makes you immune to even moderate sways in the political environment. that is not the case for millions of people, even the majority of them
Maybe I can't differentiate because people make my life political. Good for you that's not a problem but other people exist like me and have this issue. A lot of people seem to lack awareness of others and act like they're in the right. It's childish.
I once worked for someone who thought like you. He was a real redneck. When I walked in, he looked at the hiring manager and rolled his eyes. I ended up doing the best out of anyone on my first day and it was physically intense. He apologized to me later because he gained an awareness that other people can exist differently without him being a bitch about it. You should learn from him.
Awwww =3 poor widdle doom scroller. Is there too much politics? Well tough tits, youngin! Everything is political and you should be able to accept it popping up everywhere.
As for fatigue from politics that try to subvert and enrage you, have you tried not listening to said politics? What? You watch Tucker Carlson?! GTFO here...
Everything is political and you should be able to accept it popping up everywhere.
True, god forbid people have an escape from real life's bullshit in something like a meme community.
I seriously don't understand this original post or comments like this here at all. It doesn't make any sense to me how you guys can't see why people are annoyed at seeing politics 24/7 on Lemmy, even in random completely unrelated places, like memes. If you want to start your own politically charged memes community, then go for it, but I don't understand at all why that content should be posted here in a general memes community that has nothing to do with politics in the slightest, or how/why you guys are justifying it. I don't think it's a big ask at all, but I digress.
Honestly it sounds like you came into an already existing place and are upset that it doesn't cater to you. Presumably this means you assume the default of things is catering to you.
True, I came into a general meme community not expecting it to be politically charged (common sense)
You're really falling back on "common sense" huh?
to which it seems like people agree with me and had similar expectations...
I can see the same thread you can. This is a mischaracterization of the feedback you've received.
what's your point?
Not everything is catering to you. You're coming in to this with a really entitled attitude.
Lemmy was written by literal communists and was full of literal communists until all the ledditors came over. You weren't expecting the memes community on the communist reddit clone to have any political memes?
And you weren't expecting it but were exposed to it, why are you complaining instead of blocking the community and going somewhere else. Do you feel like existing communities should bend over backwards to suit your preferences?
How did you misconstrue and twist my point this badly? You just made a few massive jumps here that make no sense to me at all, and I'm not sure as to what brought you to those conclusions based off my reply. Maybe this is a joke that I'm missing?
Things you are fine with aren't bullshit to you and therefore they are nonpolitical.
???? Political things are political. Nonpolitical things are nonpolitical. What I'm "fine with" has nothing to do with what I find political or not, and I never claimed otherwise. No idea where you got that from or what in my reply alluded you to that. Did you read a different comment and just accidentally reply to mine? Genuinely wondering at this point, that would explain it for sure.
At the end of the day, I'm not promoting or defending a specific political agenda like you're making it out as, you have no idea who I am or what my political beliefs are or what I'm "fine with", I'm just saying I think political shit as a whole shouldn't be as prevalent as it is here in a random general memes community that has nothing to do with politics, and people are totally justified to be annoyed by or wanting to criticize that. I just don't understand at all why you're trying to make this out as some double standard, when it doesn't exist.
Things that affect other people, making other people concerned about them, are bullshit to you because you got yours.
Are you trolling? This is a general memes community, not a political recruitment center, like what??? Plenty of political and social issues directly impact me, but its irrelevant, and I still think its weird to force them into places that are completely unrelated, like a general memes community for instance. Not everyone makes or wants their entire life to be about politics, sorry I guess?
I also never called any specific political issues or concerns bullshit... I assume you misunderstood my saying of "real life's bullshit", but I think it's clear and painfully obvious what I meant by that with the context, that life is full of issues and shit that go on 24/7, and sometimes people just want an escape and break from it over the internet, so no idea how or why you're twisting it this much, just like you've managed to twist everything else I said here. :/
I'm sorry but I don't believe you made this comment in good faith at all, this is by far the dumbest and weirdest comment I have ever received in my life, if this was Reddit, I would give you an award for it, gg, like literally... what am I reading here? All you did was completely twist what I said and jump to massive conclusions about me, you should genuinely be ashamed, this is just embarrassing.
There isn't much worth responding to in your wall of label-dodging sophistry.
What are you still trying to insinuate by this? Why can't you just accept the fact that we have different opinions and there's nothing wrong with that, instead of accusing me of "label-dodging sophistry" or whatever else you can come up with. I never personally attacked you or your politics at all, so its just hard for me to understand why you're being like this. It isn't that deep. You're just treating me like I went out of my way to shit on you or your politics, when I never did, my point was completely irrelevant of any political belief I or you may have, unlike what you keep trying to frame it as.
Politics exist, "bullshit" to you or not. Almost everything imaginable has political context and connections even if you plug your ears and make loud noises.
Wow, I didn't realize I said politics didn't exist, thanks for informing me of that. Is there anything else I never said that I should know about?
Like no shit, of course politics exist, and sure, a lot of things in life are political, but usually not to this extent that they are currently, and some people just want an escape from it through places like a general memes community that has nothing to do with politics in nature, that's all I was trying to say. People have a right to criticize or be annoyed by that, that was my point, but you can't seem to comprehend that.
You're not sorry. Spare me the Reddit cliches.
FWIW I do genuinely feel bad for having to respond this way to you, I'm perfectly open to talking to people with different perspectives or opinions than I have, but instead you chose to make a bad faith comment attacking me and completely twisting what I said, it's unfortunate.
I don't think you're willing to leave your bubble and see that the world is larger and more intersectionally connected than your selfish whining about how the world other people inhabit isn't as comfortably easy for you to ignore anymore.
I think you base your entire life off of your political beliefs and can't understand that others don't feel the same way. It isn't that hard to understand.
Memes are DNA of the soul. Of course there's politics involved because it impacts the soul.
When I go for a walk, the car-based infrastructure makes everything a nuisance until I get on a trail some distance from where I live. Turns out politics is everywhere.
