I don't think there is anything like a consensus on Rojava and the PKK (the party which the YPG operates under), even within segments of the left that follow the same ideology. I think it has to do with fog-of-war, but also with a shitty notion that Rojava is a single cohesive political entity when it is really more of a coalition of ideologically disparate Kurdish groups. I used to think the Rojava and the PKK were the coolest thing ever and now I am way more critical and sceptical of PKK in particular, but there is so much history and context that I feel I'm missing that every time I've come up with some simple take on it I find myself disagreeing with it a month after.
edit: actually, the YPG operates under the PYD, which was originally established as a Syrian branch of the PKK. Lots of three letter acronyms to learn when studying the Syrian conflict lol
a lot of kurds mostly fight for autonomy within syria, they used to not get kurdish language education in school for instance
Learning about Rojava back in around 2015/2016 was what inspired me to become a socialist, so I've been following the situation there for quite some time and I still think they're worth supporting, however it seems like as time has gone on they've had to make a lot of compromises in order survive and gain support from the non-leftist and non-Kurdish segments of the population and the revolution isn't as radical anymore as it was when it first started. In the more recent statements, interviews, etc that I've read they make hardly any gestures at all towards anti-capitalism, which is a bummer. They still have a lot of socialistic economic policies at least though, for example they control the prices of basic necessities to make sure they are affordable for everyone, they distribute free bread, and so on.
It's undeniable though that Rojava has made huge strides for the region in feminism and women's rights and they deserve recognition for their efforts on that front.
Rojava cool and based and critical support for AES, but the idea of an independent Kurdistan that the Turks would let survive was always non-viable.
They should have cut a deal with Assad earlier.
AES was never supposed to be an independent Kurdistan, the PYD/YPG line has always been that they seek an autonomous region within a federalized Syria. The whole idea that they were/are trying to build an independent Kurdish state came from both anti-Kurdish propaganda and Western analysts who refused to try to understand the revolution in depth and on its own terms and instead made generalizations about it being a nationalist project.
Yeah, I've read both Bookchin and Ocalan, so I'm aware of the extra national nature of DFNS.
I'm trying to say that even though Assad is an ass, he's not half as genocidal as Erdogan, so some concessions to him would have left them in a stronger position
That said they had shitty decisions to make and I cant blame them for trying to hold out defese integration as long as possible, even if it cost them Afrin.
I mean, Assad and the Syrian Ba'athists are violently anti-Semitic Nazi style fash and have been since forever.
Fully in support of Syria not getting carpet bombed and all, but it's entirely understandable the YPG didn't run to them for aid except as a very last resort.
Can you provide reading material on Syrian "nazi style fascism"?
It's kind of hard to find one big source, I kind of learned about it by pulling bits and pieces from all over the place, and it's hard to find good sources without some form of brainworms/really weird focuses but I can give it a shot.
Saddam Hussein was a Ba'athist so most recent US soures in particular are completely fucked, and Western leftists don't tend to work too hard to correct the record because again, not only are they fash they're heavily associated with the Western alt-right.
Got halfway through doing this in rely to your post in the other thread and gave up when life got busy. I'll try and do it incrementally here so wherever I have to stop you still have something.
Basically, you're looking for a history of the Ba'athist movement.
I say they were "Nazi style" fascists because a) they were massive stans of the OG Nazi party, gave fleeing Nazis government positions, fully buy into the whole "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" thing, did state backed pogroms as soon as they took power, invite Neo-Nazis for state visits to do TV rallies, and Jews are still banned from holding government jobs (most of them, in a collectivized economy) or political office in Syria today.
Will edit/update with links as I find them.
The Ba'ath and Syria: 1947-1982 by Robert Olson seems good, I'm having trouble pirating it though.
Allied with Assad to bring unity and security to Syria and end this vicious war: 👍
Remaining allies with the US post-2016 in a Faustian bargain that intensifies the conflict while paving the road to a Turkish/NATO genocide: 👎
In the end Rojava made the right choice, so they're cool in my book
The US pulling out of Syria is good for both Rojava and Syria at large. That means Rojava can’t be used as a balkanizing agent, and negotiations with the Syrian Gov. can, have, and are happening to end the war and boot the fuck out of Syria Turkey and its Jihadi puppets.
To add to this point, I think if the US really wanted to balkanize Syria they would have to destroy the leftist elements of Rojava first, because I don't think the leadership of Rojava would ever go so far as to let themselves be used as puppets to carve a Kurdish nation state out of Syria. They see themselves as part of the broader democratic opposition to Assad and their ultimate goal is to implement a democratic, federal system of government in Syria.
Last year a Kurdish delegation to Washington got screamed at by State Department Officials for not wanting to ally with the Jihadist elements in Syria that the US also supports but the Kurds didn't budge: https://nationalinterest.org/blog/middle-east-watch/exclusive-inside-state-departments-meltdown-kurds-90241
If the US continues to stay in Syria under Biden and decides it really wants to go all in and create a Kurdish state they'll probably try to get the current leftist leadership of Rojava overthrown somehow and replaced with the right-wing ENKS party. I know that Rojava has been accused by Western foreign policy think tanks of being an authoritarian PKK dictatorship, so the propaganda groundwork for such an operation has already been laid.
The US has also been sponsoring Kurdish unity talks between the Rojava leadership and the Kurdish-nationalist opposition, so they might use those talks to pressure Rojava to weaken the confederalist Autonomous Administration system and implement liberal style elections that the US could then influence in order to get the leftist Kurdish leadership replaced at the ballot box.
They're cool and good.
Rojava literally occupied Syrian wheat fields with the US to starve Syrian cities
The Kurds and their US ally hold the wheat as a trump card in ongoing negotiations.
“Assad needs access to cereal crops in northeast Syria to prevent a bread crisis in the areas of western Syria that he controls,” Syria analyst Nicholas Heras said. “Wheat is a weapon of great power in this next phase of the Syrian conflict,” said Heras, and he added that the Kurds and their US ally “have a significant stockpile of this wheat weapon. It can be used to apply pressure on the (Syrian government), and on Russia, to force concessions in the UN-led diplomatic process.”
https://theduran.com/the-us-is-using-wheat-as-a-weapon-of-war-in-syria/
Whilst also ethnic cleansing non Kurds
The non-Kurdish population is a mix of Syrian Arabs, Syrian Christians, Syrian Armenians and many of them have suffered under the Kurdish administration, which saw non-Kurds being ethnically cleansed, as they lost homes, shops, and farms at the hands of the SDF.(ibid)
They then got ditched by the US immediately and fed into Turkeys meat grinder. As if no one has ever read even a tiny bit of history of what US does to its "allies" when it is balkanising and using divide and rule tactics to destroy countries it has geopolitical strategic interest in. So not only was allying with the Great Satan a fucking terrible idea it was counter-productive for them
Unsurprisingly I'm not a fan. I remember talking to David Graeber about this on twitter and it was the most pathetic display of mental gymnastics I've ever seen. Like if you believe the Kurds had to ally with the Great Satan to create their Kurdish state that's good and cool. But its then a bit rich if you shit on Actually Existing Socialist countries who had to build their nations under the conditions of opposition to US imperialism rather than as an ally to it.
The framing of that article and your post, which claims that the Kurds are "occupying" the wheat is kind of ridiculous. Prior to the revolution the Kurdish areas of Syria were treated as an internal colony, and the Kurds were forbidden from building any sort of industry or growing crops other than wheat. Rojava isn't "occupying" Syrian wheat fields, the wheat fields are part of Rojava due to the Syrian government's own policy.
If the wheat fields are part of Rojava why do they burn them?
https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-sponsored-kurdish-militia-burn-wheat-fields-qamishli/5679629
I'm really skeptical of the claim that they are setting wheat fields on fire, because their economic situation is pretty desperate right now and it would run counter to their goal of developing economic self-sufficiency.
So they can be occupying Oil fields where the US president brags about stealing the oil but burning wheat fields is beneath them?
Using/selling oil that you control is not the same thing as setting your own food supply on fire. Qamishlo is one of the biggest cities in Rojava and it is majority Kurdish. The Kurds would have to be fucking insane to be setting fire to wheat fields there, which is why that's blatant propaganda. If they were accused of setting wheat fields on fire in like Aleppo or something that would make more sense.
that we know way too little bout the arab and assyrian ethnic cleansings
Rojava is very explicitly in favor of multiculturalism and equal rights for all ethnic groups within Syria. The claim that they've carried out ethnic cleansing is just propaganda. I think there are probably a lot of instances where the Kurds could've handled things in Arab majority areas better, but when you look at their actual policies it becomes clear that they are trying to get all ethnic groups involved with the Autonomous Administration project, they are not trying to create a Kurdish ethnostate.
does arab and assyrian perspectives inform your opinion here? What you say is very fucking clearly against what is being charged by these groups. Whichever official propaganda line or paper policies the kurds carry is completely ridiculous to argue for. We have seen western-backed progressive kurds coast on top of, and ending with the oil profits from, invasions against ba'ath regimes in that region before. a lot of the reason you know what you think you know about kurdistan - west region is because the blood money that has been pumped into media platforms and military industry by their american allies. I wont have western dipshits on chapo discredit assyrians who were the victims of a kurdish-driven genocide hundred years ago when they say those patterns are surfacing again now. we have seen all of this before, it should be obvious, yall.. There are feminists with guns fighting terrorists, okay, cool. For a site talking so much about the so called social wing of fascism its funny how this isnt applied to the anglokurdish postimperial enclaves that we keep seeing being built on the backs of brutalized arab states
It's Going Down podcast interviewed an Assyrian living in Qamishlo, and he claims that the Syrian government stoked ethnic tensions in order to maintain social control and that the Rojava revolution has done a lot to break down ethnic divisions between people:
https://itsgoingdown.org/this-is-america-92-an-anarchist-in-rojava-speaks/
Your post also ignores the fact that the Kurds themselves have been victims of genocide, forced assimilation, etc.
ok bro thank you for linking me "this is america". my post doesnt include a broader analysis on secterian hatred because the obvious line in this conflict is to uphold a pluralistic secular state like the one of syria, the one our friends the kurds have broken up under the wings of the west good job bro you found a mascot that underlines the fantasy you have perpetuated about this particular movement. break the glass world, the world is full of freedom struggles, the syrian kurdish one isnt a fairytale ascendant from the rest.
https://www.joshualandis.com/blog/romancing-rojava-rhetoric-vs-reality/
Yes Baathist Syria is very pluralistic, that's why they didn't allow Syrian Kurds to hold full Syrian citizenship and pursed assimilationist policies against them. Again you're just ignoring the Kurdish perspective, I'm starting to think you're an Arab nationalist.
Also read my other fucking posts in this thread, I never claimed that Rojava is a utopia.
what the fuck is this reply. you are being charged with rejecting the claims of assyrians that the kurdish-american alliance fosters an ethnonationalism that is causing ethnic cleansing on the one hand and on the other that you cant reconcile rojava as a liberation movement and simultaneously a product of oil-stealing imperialist aggression. So if we lift our gaze and pivot to OPs questions, it isnt a question about rojavas imperfections but wether or not it is fundamentally opposed to our values. It should be clear that we must oppose any attempts to divide syria or compromize its state firstly, then afterwards struggle for a transformation towards the left.
You accused me of not listening to Assyrians, so I provided an example of an Assyrian who rejects the claim that the Kurds are ethnonationalist, and you automatically dismissed him as a "mascot", whatever the fuck that means. That podcast is like an hour long so I'm 100% sure you didn't even listen to it, despite the fact that Assyrian perspectives are supposedly so important to you.
Then you claim that the Syrian government is pluralistic, which is false because it denied that Syrian Kurds were legitimate citizens of Syria and tried to forcibly Arabize them.
You seem to think that Kurds in general are just lying Western puppets with no legitimate stake in the region, and you completely ignore the fact that they've been oppressed by the Baathist governments of Syria and Iraq and even accuse Iraqi Kurds of stealing oil despite the fact that they were gassed by Saddam, which is why I think you're an Arab nationalist.
If it's a question of whether or not Rojava conforms to leftist values, I think the answer is yes. They're not perfect, they're not the anarcho-communalist utopia some Western leftists think they are, but they're committed to feminism, they're committed to multiculturalism, and they're committed to building a democratic system that provides for the poor and doesn't just favor the capitalist class.
There are a lot of powers that want to see Rojava fail. Turkey wants to see Rojava fail. Syria wants to see Rojava fail. Russia wants to see Rojava fail. Western support for Rojava is tepid and I'm sure the US would love it if the PYD was replaced with the ENKS, which is the right-wing Kurdish opposition in Rojava. A lot of people on this site argue that we can't believe everything negative we hear/read about Communist states because there is a lot of propaganda against them. I think the same thing applies to Rojava. There is a propaganda campaign against them coming from multiple fronts which is designed to make them look like tyrants and stoke ethnic division in the areas they control. Until I see strong, hard evidence to the contrary I'm inclined to believe that any accusations the Kurds are carrying out ethnic cleansing are either exaggerated, blown out of proportion or just outright false.
i dont understand how you still didnt get this. rojava is not on the losing end of the propaganda campaigns. lmao. you imbecile. you want to see strong hard evidence that is good enough to "push through the fog of anti-kurdish propaganda" which is nonsensical because the group is the beneficiary of western propaganda. you've completely misconstrued the dynamics in the area and placed yourself in a position where youre unable to deal with the assyrian question. these other points are just bullshit bickering. it doesnt matter who have treated who badly, we cannt accept any imperial ethnoseparatist projects in this region. beyond distasteful that you would articulate the assrian question in this disparaging way.
it doesnt matter who have treated who badly, we cannt accept any imperial ethnoseparatist projects in this region
Rojava is not ethnoseparatist
beyond distasteful that you would articulate the assrian question in this disparaging way.
One could say the same for how you've articulated the Kurdish question. Why are Kurdish claims of oppression "bullshit bickering" but not Assyrian ones?
No, because you're contradicting yourself and applying a double standard when it comes to Kurds Vs. Assyrians.
You think leftists should drop support for Rojava because the Kurds are supposedly trying to ethnically cleanse Assyrians, but then you say " it doesnt matter who have treated who badly".
you missed the part about distinguishing territorial nationality and socially engineered ethnic nationality?
You never said a single fucking thing about distinguishing territorial nationality and socially engineered ethnic nationality. If you think I'm so fucking stupid why are you arguing your points in such a vague, roundabout way? Spell it out for me clearly so a dumbass such as myself can understand your point.
Highly overrated by western anarchists. Would not exist if it weren't literally a State Dept op. Super wack
Deserving of support, but it can obviously be improved
I am an anarchist so I might be a bit biased however
Hakim seems to have a fairly informed take on Rojava here https://youtu.be/yf9LyS1DMH8?t=1374 (July, 2020)
