tomorrow will be a sad day
If you're making excuses as to why AOC shouldn't be using the pelosi vote as leverage you're an absolute loser just FYI. If she's not gonna put herself on the line when people are dying she never will.
She shouldn't be using it for leverage; she should be using it to vote out Pelosi.
Dream on, the first thing she did when she joined congress was vote for Pelosi as speaker after telling Glenn Greenwald she wouldn't.
Watch her vote for her again and get nothing for it. At least getting her to extract some concession for it would be a step.
At least getting her to extract some concession for it would be a step.
She just got the PAYGO rule scrapped, so there you go.
"Progressives need to get a concession"
Gets a concession
"Well that one doesn't count"
Nothing is going to look like enough until we get some big material improvement, and progressives don't have the power to force that right now. Even forcing Pelosi out as Speaker (which would be a lot more complicated than how it's been presented) wouldn't actually do anything material for anyone. All progressives can do right now is play for small wins that might help later, and that's what this is.
A reasonable comparison is the DNC rules changes Bernie pushed through in the wake of the 2016 primary. Did it get him elected? Did it pass any material policy? No, but he didn't have the power to do that stuff anyways, and four years later it kept Democrats from pulling the same "give the favored candidate an enormous superdelegate lead right out of the gate" strategy that neutered Bernie's 2016 campaign before it began.
Who are you quoting? AOC and the DSA both were organizing floor vote initiatives the whole time, not for vague rule changes that you didn't even fucking know about 3 days ago
AOC tweeted out this exact rule change a few days ago (maybe a week ago?) as an alternative to a losing floor vote. You also know about the PAYGO rule if you read anything on MMT.
Y'all have the memory of goldfish lmao. In 2018 the challenge to Pelosi's speakership was from her right. You might be able to make an argument if you really really struggled to say that removing Pelosi would be worth it. But I don't think having a younger ghoul with even worse politics potentially lead the congressional Democrats for a couple decades would be worth it at all. AOC made the right call no matter how angry Pelosi makes you.
It's funny how everyone who says like, "we need to do #forcethevote in order to organize and build a coalition" then immediately turns around and pushes away anyone who's not immediately on board.
lol, she got nothing, an exception to paygo for gnd and covid (not even m4a), couldn't even get the rule stricken and she's on twitter bragging like she actually did something when its obvious Pelosi just handed her som table scraps so she can perform for the low information voters and keep her seat.
Given that Force The Vote is asking for even less than that, I don't see why that's relevant.
also low information voters, aka people who know what paygo is. clearly. Yes. Makes sense.
people who have their information served up to them by the boutique left grifters
House rule changes are how you keep low information voters happy
Here I go with the AOC apologist posting and I absolutely will make it a wall of text as usual:
She has literally been better for our actual leftist organization on the ground than anything in the last 10 years. She isn’t personally funneling people into the DSA or the communist caucus of it, but she is absolutely a pipeline for people here in her district. I worked in her election campaigns here in Queens and know a handful of people who actually work for her now.
The short story I normally give is that ten years ago we’d be lucky to do one or two food drives a month for mutual aid. We’d have about a dozen or so volunteers after setting up a table and handing out brochures. After AOC’s election and the DSA’s recent expansion we’ve had enough volunteers to not only do weekly food drives, but we have a waiting list to be a volunteer that goes months in advance. When Covid hit, AOC worked with us personally to go door to door and hand out aid to families in need on one of the first Saturdays in lockdown. She asked what we’d need and bought three entire weeks of all the aid we could manage to give out in that time on her own dime. We thought this would be a photo op but she showed up personally with one aide, no cameras, no media, and went door to door handing out aid with us. She’s honestly incredibly genuine and didn’t try to take on a leading role or make it about her. Then she showed up on Sunday and did the same with us pretty much only going off of the meeting the group had at the end of the day.
Is AOC perfect? No, obviously, and one day I hope I see her in Central Park after getting challenged from the left. Is AOC absolutely genuine about trying to help people/cares deeply about her community? Definitely. This has empowered us to actually organize and expand our actually socialist agenda here in NYC and queens specifically to the point where we have a city councilman who previously worked with us and through the DSA got elected. He’s now openly calling for an actual socialist agenda and has real power in this system to help improve the material conditions of the people living here, which in turn empowers the socialist movement.
AOC isn’t the be-all and end-all of this movement, she really is just the beginning.
God for once someone posts a reasonable take. There are a million doomers who post that AOC is the next Warren or the next Obama or some shit that's just completely ignorant of her background or the work she's doing in her own district. She has had a million opportunities to sell the left out for material gain but hasn't. She does mutual aid in her spare time. She literally claims the socialist label while Obama barely called himself a Democrat.
People are flawed, politicians are flawed and should be criticized when they fuck up. And to be clear, AOC has absolutely fucked up plenty while in Congress (the most egregious being helping cover up Biden's rape allegation). And if they fuck up too much they should get thrown out of office. But for fuck's sake, anyone who thinks she's selling us out or has been captured by Pelosi or whatever is doing QAnon-tier political analysis.
our actual leftist organization on the ground
Pin this comment and lock the fucking thread.
TL;DR aoc is a fucking meme stop posting this embarassing cring
Hold on let me go take back all of the food we’ve donated with people who have joined our aid group pretty explicitly because AOC inspired them to get involved in their communities.
You don’t have to like her, I’m telling you as a fact that just her being where she is has changed the situation to where the left has actual power here in New York now. Instead of shitting on it because it’s not your preferred method, maybe consider how this route may help you as well
Other than the one posing with Pelosi I don't see a problem with this. Why is posing for Magazine covers bad lmao? Like another poster said, this is the same argument CHUDs use on her.
I get the impression that the very fact that she is getting magazine attention is very telling about where her actual orientation is in the struggle.
cause she's a stupid cunt having woman who doesn't understand male anger grr
Yaknow, your post is going into downvote abyss here but while I don't know what you meant by the "doesn't understand male anger" part, I actually don't think suggesting that this reaction to glamorous magazine cover shoots from a young woman might have its root in misogyny is entirely off base. shrug I had the thought myself before you replied to me.
They hated catface because they spoke the truth. If it's just ideological differences people would just ignore her. Instead people obsess over her and criticize her over completely innocent and innocuous shit, like in OP. The site has a misogyny problem tbh.
You don't have to simp for AOC to know that Jimmy Dore fucking sucks.
Force the vote good. Voting for Pelosi under any circumstances bad.
As a matter of parliamentary procedure though, the vote for Speaker will be one of the first things the new Congress does. The demsoc caucus will never have any leverage to ensure they get their vote and will sully their names by endorsing the lichess. The plan is convoluted and amounts to begging.
Force the vote is voting for Pelosi after the vote for M4A is given no?
I'm just going to spam it in every thread about this from now on
I think the funny part about ForceTheVote is that literally the only people who benefit from ForceTheVote succeeding are Nancy Pelosi and corporate Democrats, and it's blindingly obvious why.
I’m just going to spam it in every thread about this from now on
He's definitely the Alex Jones of the progressive talking heads. Depending on who you are this could be a good or bad thing.
Lol, the tulsi argument again, he threw her under the bus when she endorsed biden, try to keep up.
Do they make all of you in the same lab?, you sound like bots.
Imagine thinking "yeah, he was all for Tulsi up until the very moment she endorsed Biden" is a good defense of this dude.
jesus christ, he continually has bad takes, that's just among the most obviously bad
So does literally all of breadube and the rest of the left media landscape.
Guess I'm glad I'm not here defending breadtubers.
Pretty great that I can actually read theory and don't need some youTube grifter to tell me how to interpret the world.
"continually bad takes."
Disagree, In my experience he's about 6 months ahead of the rest of "the progressives media" and when they finally catch up to him on an issue they just shrug and continue their constant defence of dems and their favorites.
"damn, this obvious terf who was obviously a terf and literally ran against a socialist was actually bad? Well at least I figured this out in March of 2020."
Socialist? was there a socialist in the primary? or a sheepdog?
Yeah there was a socialist in the primary, it was Marianne Williamson (edit: ffs this comment was a bit)
True leftists shun media attention in a country where people primarily get their politics from media.
Why yes my brain is large and wrinkly, how did you know?
i read vanity fair and the hollywood reporter for the politics
Tons of people don't read anything for the politics, and form their political opinions from vague stuff like "this person seems likeable based on the sum total of media snippets I've seen of them." Do we seriously need to argue that positive press for the furthest-left politicians in the country is good?
but if you put together the 'sum total of media snippets' from when she was running vs after she got elected it is clear that she has ignored independent media and embraces only mainstream media and puff pieces the sames ones that trash politicians like her and Bernie every chance they get - but im sure she hasn't sold out yet, lets just wait and see how she will vote on the military budget...oh wait
You mean the military budget she literally voted against five days ago?
I believe she voted no on that one.
https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2020253
it is clear that she has ignored independent media and embraces only mainstream media
It's not at all clear that this is the case. Without knowing what she's been invited to do or what she's sought out, this is just speculation. And mainstream media is important, anyway, because we're trying to make ideas like M4A and the Green New Deal acceptable in the political mainstream.
88% among democrats and 72% among republicans isnt mainstream enough
It's clearly not; that's undeniable. We also just elected the only Democratic candidate who flat-out said he'd veto M4A if it somehow got on his desk, so the polling that shows enormous support for it needs at least a few caveats. That huge percentage of Democratic voters don't all view opposition to M4A as disqualifying, for instance.
embraces only mainstream media
How dare she appear on media that had the widest reach.
I fail to see what the issue is with AOC getting her picture taken.
Not to mention 2 of these didn't even involve her having her picture taken (Time and Rolling Stone).
There should be a gong that sounds the beginning of the AOC struggle session.
I don't think AOC is bad, but it's clear she's not as good as Bernie Sanders and neither is any of the people that the left and socialist movement at large have elected to congress.
None of them act in any way actually comparable to Kshama Sawant (who truthfully hurts herself by never acting as an insitutionalist, but there's a fine line). Even Julia Salazar whose better than AOC still acts like more of an institutionalist in the ny state senate than Sawant.
Truthfully I kinda think Jayapal is poisoning the well, and even though she endorsed Bernie over Warren, she's much closer to Warren in terms of behavior, it's just that Warren isn't actually as far left as these folks.
I think the next-best leftist in Congress right now is probably Cori Bush, maybe Rashida or Ilhan. Although it would be pretty sweet to get Nina Turner's "fuck you" energy in Congress.
Ilhan and Rashida were originally more pro establishment than AOC was to be fair as well. They just actually got fucked over by the establishment in a way AOC didn't when they got accused of anti semitism for supporting palestine and it changed them more.
Originally Ilhan didn't want Bernie to run, and wanted someone like Kamala or Warren.
Cori Bush is unquestionably the best, I actually trust her to fight in a way I don't anyone in federal government except Sanders, Jaamal Bowemann will also be good, more valuable than AOC bc he can really connect with african american men who are currently far from being reached politically by the left. The new crop is definitely better than the old one.
I don’t think AOC is bad, but it’s clear she’s not as good as Bernie Sanders
Is it, though? What policies has Bernie laid out there that AOC either doesn't agree with or doesn't go as far as Bernie? I'm all ears, because frankly AOC and Bernie seem about as close as politicians can be on policies to me.
Policies aren't everything, Bernie challenges establishment power far more than AOC. AOC hasn't actually challenged established power in anyway beyond what other politicians have done.
She has done a lot of respectable work around community organizing and movement building, but so have a lot of politicians of all stripes.
Saying this respectfully, but I genuinely don't see how Bernie challenges power more than AOC. Bernie plays ball with senate Democrats (his "friends" like Biden and Schumer) every bit that AOC does.
Bernie running for president against Hillary Clinton absolutely disrupted the status quo inside the democratic party. AOC hasn't disrupted anything.
Sure Bernie could be better, but all AOC has ever done is defend herself and parts of the movement, she hasn't really been on the attack since her first few weeks in congress. Bernie went against the party trying to get 2k checks this week, AOC did nothing like that.
AOC literally unseated the 2nd or 3rd ranking establishment Dem in the House.
Edit: Also Bernie endorsed Biden and so did AOC but at least she made that comment about in a normal country they wouldnt be in the same party.
Hey now, whenever Bernie is on a magazine cover I see tons of folks here complaining about it and how he's just a grifter seeking attention....
....
Holy shit this is literally the same argument the far right uses against her. Although that makes sense, given that ForceTheVote is radlib nonsense coming from AOC’s right.
