We are reading Volumes 1, 2, and 3 in one year. This will repeat yearly until communism is achieved. (Volume IV, often published under the title Theories of Surplus Value, will not be included, but comrades are welcome to set up other bookclubs.) This works out to about 6½ pages a day for a year, 46 pages a week.

I'll post the readings at the start of each week and @mention anybody interested.

Week 1, Jan 1-7, we are reading Volume 1, Chapter 1 'The Commodity'

Discuss the week's reading in the comments.

Use any translation/edition you like. Marxists.org has the Moore and Aveling translation in various file formats including epub and PDF: https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/

Ben Fowkes translation, PDF: http://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=9C4A100BD61BB2DB9BE26773E4DBC5D

AernaLingus says: I noticed that the linked copy of the Fowkes translation doesn't have bookmarks, so I took the liberty of adding them myself. You can either download my version with the bookmarks added, or if you're a bit paranoid (can't blame ya) and don't mind some light command line work you can use the same simple script that I did with my formatted plaintext bookmarks to take the PDF from libgen and add the bookmarks yourself.


Resources

(These are not expected reading, these are here to help you if you so choose)

  • Harvey's guide to reading it: https://www.davidharvey.org/media/Intro_A_Companion_to_Marxs_Capital.pdf

  • A University of Warwick guide to reading it: https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/arts/english/currentstudents/postgraduate/masters/modules/worldlitworldsystems/hotr.marxs_capital.untilp72.pdf

  • Engels' Synopsis of Capital or PDF

  • Reading Capital with Comrades: A Liberation School podcast series - https://www.liberationschool.org/reading-capital-with-comrades-podcast/


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  • Melonius [he/him]
    ·
    10 months ago

    I had a few thoughts/questions that might get addressed later. Chpt 1 is a lot of simple examples but I can't help but think on them more:

    How, then, is the magnitude of this value to be measured? Plainly, by the quantity of the value-creating substance, the labour, contained in the article. The quantity of labour, however, is measured by its duration, and labour time in its turn finds its standard in weeks, days, and hours.

    Maybe oversimplified here, but what about particularly difficult, dangerous, or unpleasant jobs? An hour in the mines is surely worth more than an hour driving trains. I can think of a lot of ways to properly value different jobs without resorting to trying to value the product, but it's odd it's not mentioned here when the next quote is.

    Skilled labour counts only as simple labour intensified, or rather, as multiplied simple labour, a given quantity of skilled being considered equal to a greater quantity of simple labour.

    In my mind, experience/training/knowledge is a form of capital. Time spent training or learning should be considered a part of the labor, so someone inexperienced who is making coats should be compensated the same as an expert making coats, assuming they are laboring the same, no? Again, I can think of ways of rewarding craftsmanship and experience without basing it on the product, but saying a coat made by one person is more valuable using non-commoditized attributes seems prone to rent seeking.

    The same labour extracts from rich mines more metal than from poor mines. Diamonds are of very rare occurrence on the earth’s surface, and hence their discovery costs, on an average, a great deal of labour time. Consequently much labour is represented in a small compass.

    How is this difference resolved in a global society with commodities? A poor mine yielding less than a rich mine - is the price paid the average labor cost so the rich mine miners are underpaid and poor mine miners overpaid? Are they paid their labor value and subject to the needs of the local factories, the poor mine is shut down?

    It's my opinion that the mine should only operate if the ore is absolutely necessary or the transportation costs from the rich mine are prohibitive, in which case the rich mine would be paid less per ore while the poor mine is paid more per ore. This would keep the value of labor consistent between the two environs but I'm not sure this is what marx is saying or maybe it's just glossed over at this chapter?

    There was, however, an important fact which prevented Aristotle from seeing that, to attribute value to commodities, is merely a mode of expressing all labour as equal human labour, and consequently as labour of equal quality. Greek society was founded upon slavery, and had, therefore, for its natural basis, the inequality of men and of their labour powers.

    I see authors and journalists so often get close to the contradictions in something only to never reach the conclusion and state it. I assume it's intentional but sometimes I wonder if everyone's just fucking clueless. It's funny to see even Aristotle didn't get it, or died a grifter.

    When these proportions have, by custom, attained a certain stability, they appear to result from the nature of the products, so that, for instance, one ton of iron and two ounces of gold appear as naturally to be of equal value as a pound of gold and a pound of iron in spite of their different physical and chemical qualities appear to be of equal weight. The character of having value, when once impressed upon products, obtains fixity only by reason of their acting and re-acting upon each other as quantities of value. These quantities vary continually, independently of the will, foresight and action of the producers. To them, their own social action takes the form of the action of objects, which rule the producers instead of being ruled by them.

    People who do no work are unable to value the work, so they use shortcuts, trend lines, technical analysis to incant the price points. "An ounce of silver is always worth x ounces of gold so if gold goes up silver must too. " -someone who has never seen the inside of a mine

    • Stoatmilk [he/him]
      ·
      10 months ago

      If the two mines produce the same ore and are located in the same society/market, the value of the same amount of ore is the same between them (ignoring transportation). The rich mine would be more profitable if all other variables were the same.

      The value of labor is not very relevant to what a worker is paid, except as a kind of upper limit. Workers are paid relative to the value of their labor-power, which is a concept that will be introduced in chapter 6. The value of labor power varies across the globe, so a relatively poor mine can be profitable in a country with cheap labor-power and a rich mine can be unprofitable in a country with expensive labor-power.

      • Melonius [he/him]
        ·
        10 months ago

        I'll wait until chapter 6 to come back it then, but ideally

        The value of labor power varies across the globe

        This shouldn't be the case, right?

    • Doubledee [comrade/them]
      ·
      10 months ago

      Maybe oversimplified here, but what about particularly difficult, dangerous, or unpleasant jobs? An hour in the mines is surely worth more than an hour driving trains. I can think of a lot of ways to properly value different jobs without resorting to trying to value the product, but it's odd it's not mentioned here when the next quote is.

      I believe the quote that immediately follows is partially addressing this, insofar as it argues that it's most reasonable to express all labor as a modified quantity of an abstract "mean unskilled labor in a given society." Skilled and otherwise difficult labor might be "worth" a multiple of unskilled labor but you are expressing the same social reality by just referring to it in terms of the unskilled mean. My copy also has a note to remind the reader that we aren't talking about wages yet, we are trying to understand what it means to express that commodities are interchangeable in a consistent way. Eventually we will get to money and wages but I think those are all logically dependent on what Marx means here with value in commodities as a social reality.

      If you emphasize the this in the phrase this value, I think we are meant to distinguish the kind of value at play from other kinds, such as the usefulness of what is produced or the material substance of it as a potentially useful thing.

      • Melonius [he/him]
        ·
        10 months ago

        Thanks, I think I'm getting caught up in the valuing over commodities as being a function of their labor. If my labor produces 20 linens, then my labor is worth 20 linens - the cost of the goods (inc depreciation of capital and transportation) to make the 20 linens. I can wait until the wages discussion to reopen that box though.

        So without getting too far ahead, if it takes 1 hour of abstractly difficult work to get X ore, and 1 hour of abstractly easy work to get Y corn, we can safely assume that X ore is worth > Y corn, all else equal? Or would we require more information on other equivalent exchange rates?

        • Doubledee [comrade/them]
          ·
          edit-2
          10 months ago

          So without getting too far ahead, if it takes 1 hour of abstractly difficult work to get X ore, and 1 hour of abstractly easy work to get Y corn, we can safely assume that X ore is worth > Y corn, all else equal?

          I believe Marx would say that when they are compared as commodities, the point at which they are equal in value is a statement of the amount of social labor congealed into each thing. So, no, what you would have to do is compare them (X ore = Y corn) and in that comparison you would be declaring the social labor of the ore to be the exchangeable with the use value of the corn. Essentially society is unconsciously declaring unlike things to be exchangeable because they have a common property, human labor. If I understand correctly, that is.

          Remember, he's trying to explain commodities, not intrinsic value or use value. Commodities are produced to be exchanged, and manifest a different kind of value to other sorts of products.

    • quarrk [he/him]
      ·
      10 months ago

      difficult, dangerous, or unpleasant jobs

      We intuitively think about commodities from the perspective of single units because we deal with unit prices when we enter the market. So the natural first question is: how much does this single banana cost? What is its value?

      In Capital you should think about it from the aggregate level and not the individual level. What is the total social labor required to produce all bananas for society? Let's say it is 1 million labor-hours to produce 1 billion bananas. Then, on average, each banana contains in it 1/1,000 of a labor-hour, or 3.6 labor-seconds1. Nowhere in this procedure did there arise a consideration for how it makes the producers feel, or what they ought to earn, or whether society should produce that many bananas.

      Value is independent of supply and demand. Value depends only on the labor time needed to produce a commodity, or in other words, it depends on the state of technology at a given time and place.

      So the value of one banana is 3.6 seconds, but that does not guarantee that the supply will meet the demand. The price of a banana may therefore exceed its value. It is quite possible that, say, there are not enough laborers willing to tame lions or clean shark tanks, and the prices for those labor-powers exceed their values.

      1Important caveat: You cannot directly compute value in terms of physical labor like this because value consists of abstract labor, not concrete labor.

      • Melonius [he/him]
        ·
        10 months ago

        Thanks I think I need to sit tight. In liberal economics, I think the value of a commodity is simply "What the market will pay," which is easy but unsustainable way to run a market place because of differences in information and the baked in incentive to hoard capital to produce commodities at lower prices / monopolize to charge higher prices than the market. I am looking to find a solution to the latent hoarding issue but I don't know if Marx ever solved it

        • KurtVonnegut [comrade/them]
          ·
          edit-2
          10 months ago

          the baked in incentive to hoard capital to produce commodities at lower prices / monopolize to charge higher prices

          That is something Marx will talk about a lot, in detail, later in the book, especially in "Part VII: The Accumulation of Capital." He actually gives a down-to-earth, simple example of one business owner who has X amount of profits, spends Y amount on himself, to buy a house, diamonds for his wife, toys for his kids, dinners at fancy restaurants, etc., and then invests X - Y = Z back into the company. Modern corporations are much more complicated than this, because they have thousands of investors, or even millions somtimes, if we consider Vanguard-esque retirement funds. But yeah, Marx basically sees most industries as naturally tending towards monopolization. That is one of the main differences between Marxist and liberal/libertarian economics. You can't compete your way out of this problem.

          Furthermore, many Marxists in the past 150 years have predicted that this tendency to ever-more monopolization and increasing "economies of scale" for large corporations will lead to a race to the bottom, with rates of profit continuously falling across the board. Some Marxists even believe falling rates of profit will be the main thing triggering the next big worldwide war/revolution, although that is a hotly debated topic.

    • keepcarrot [she/her]
      ·
      10 months ago

      I feel the same way about a lot of this, the reader on soundcloud I'm listening to with us says that he's considering a fairly simple society with mostly "unskilled" labour and slowly adding things in (e.g. he starts with only a relationship between linen and coats), and he glosses over stuff that he briefly mentions here. I haven't read this before so idk if he goes over stuff like that in more detail though. But for this hyper-idealised economy with linen, coats, workers, and producers (capitalists, I guess) and no foreign trade, this is how linen, coats, and labour time is compared in relation to each other (at least by the producer).

      I am pretty sure he's describing the bourgeois economy specifically with its flattening of the perception of workers (that, in an idealised bourgeois economy, sees all workers labour as the same, which means they're replacable and can be slotted in and out as the tides vary, again without the added complexity of education etc.).

      (this is my guess, I'm pretty stoned and read this a few hours before you did)

      • Melonius [he/him]
        ·
        10 months ago

        (this is my guess, I'm pretty stoned and read this a few hours before you did)

        Same, best way to read it!

        I agree the examples are hyper idealized, but I don't think its in the contexts of a bourgeois economy. 20 linens = 1 coat works without someone price gouging, as a capitalist would do what they can to inflate the value of whatever their capital is producing. In the chapter 1 economy, having all worker labor = is an ideal state as well, as we can say that whether you create a coat or I create 20 linens, the labor value we impart is equivalent. I would expect a more flattened view of workers is an ideal under communism, not bourgeois economics.

    • quarrk [he/him]
      ·
      edit-2
      10 months ago

      A poor mine yielding less than a rich mine

      The proper question is: How much labor-time does it take each mine to produce ore, relative to the social average? In a simple scenario, if the poor mine cannot profit, then the mine will close, or the owner will redirect their money to the richer mine that returns a larger profit. (This latter mechanism is a major point in volume 3.) In real-world scenarios, you have to factor in international exploitation, which complicates the analysis; but suffice it to say that laborers in the imperial periphery (aka global south) are indeed exploited harder than laborers within the imperial core.

    • quarrk [he/him]
      ·
      10 months ago

      experience/training/knowledge is a form of capital [...] ways of rewarding craftsmanship and experience

      Reward is an immaterial moral judgement about what things "ought" to cost.

      In future chapters, the value of labor-power will be discussed. I don't want to spoil that but it is quite important. Necessary training does impact the value of labor-power.