Sending good vibes to all of my trans comrades 
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doubts, dysphoria, fears of bigotry
I'm just so confused. For every advantage it feels like there's a reason not to transition. I'd love to have a girl body more then anything, but that comes with misogyny. I'd love fat redistribution, but will it even look good on my massive frame or am I still going to look "manish". My voice dysphoria is truly awful, I hate speaking and its what holds me back most from asking for she/her. Can I work on it enough to be happy with it? If I could I'd be the happiest girl in the world but... you know what if it doesn't sound the way I want. I'm scared to come out, but staying like this is hell. I feel like life is and will continue to be trudging through mud. Either dysphoria or bigotry and harassment. I can't stay where I am though.
I don't know. I'll probably give it a shot at some point and decide from there what to do. I know this sounds very downer but I'm just so confused and scared.
People say all trans women are so strong but I'm very much
so that's worrying too. I have always been a quitter.
mention of suicidal thoughts
I think many people here relate to those feelings (me included). For me, it became pretty clear that I would never be happy/okay if I kept ignoring this part about me. I’ve been struggling with my mental health for so long and although my coping mechanisms became healthier, my mental state has been declining steadily over the years. I’ve dealt with suicidal thoughts for a long time and came to the conclusion that if I didn’t follow this path of transition, it would only get worse.
I have doubts almost every day and am extremely afraid of coming out to my family and friends. But I also know that this is my only path so I keep taking steps I’m comfortable with and hope that the steps that seem impossible now will seem less scary when I get closer. I also know that I can go back any time I want in case I take a step too far.
If you want to share more about your doubts feel free to, maybe some of us can help you walk through them.
same
Same man. Years and years of thoughts and bad coping mechanisms. I have known for long before I even considered being trans I could not live an entire life this way.
I'm scared of that too. I know at least one of my family members will not accept me. Fortunately its one of the ones idc about but still... you know. Especially because I'll probably still have to see them for family events and stuff. I really don't know if I see myself being able to go back once I start taking steps. Back to the bad thoughts, I think if I start taking E and had to stop or something... it would be very bad. I don't think I could do that.
Not as much of a doubt but watching the entire world collapsing and constant fear mongering over trans people is not good for me
but I think I already said most of my doubts. Its mostly just if I'll actually get what I want, I suppose.
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Quitter gang. I relate to a lot of what you said. For me, being a quitter hasn’t made it so I give up. It just makes it so I’m dragging my feet the whole way. Those instincts are screaming for me to give up, but I’ve tried giving up. Over and over again. It never works. Meanwhile, I started HRT today. And I dragged my feet through the entire fucking process. But here I am.
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That's awesome! I'm so excited for you, starting hrt must be so great.
from an earlier post
This is by the same artist who does those funny "gray aliens immitate human behaviour" webcomics right?
I actually have no idea, but the art style is similar.
Yea the eyes :>
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Hi eggnog ✨
Yes actually. It's rad trust me, you are gonna dig it. You can end up losing shoulder mass and having your torso thin down, depending on what ur body is like rn. It fucks.
You're letting this torment you out of asking to be gendered correctly which I don't think is right. Who cares, people should just respect you and plenty are willing to. Women have deep voices sometimes, who cares. I did, wasn't too bad. Listen to uh, the two most recent Against Me albums I think.
It will likely come with misogyny, we live in such a dogshit society that every woman deals with misogyny. This might sound flippant but I would WAY rather deal wifh misogyny than pretend to be a man forever. If a guy talks over me I roll my eyes, dudes being creepy is way less pleasant but I'm not gonna let social weirdness dictate what I do with my goddamn body, y'know?
That's pretty much the thrust of it. Yeah, misogyny, potential harassment and so on, but you don't wanna keep pretending to be a guy. I didn't, that shit sucks. You deserve not to feel the pain of dysphoria constantly.
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Hi Ash ✨ glad you're back.
I hope you're right. I'm so big >.< I didn't know about losing shoulder mass, that does sound great.
How can I want hrt so badly and yet I still don't know all of what it doesI really am. They should... I just can't. I can't explain it.
I really, really do not want to sound like that. Maybe that's fine for some people but not me.
Yea I know they do. It really hurts to see and read about.
No, no I really don't want to keep this up. Thank you.
I don't think Ash was saying you should. But like... I hear a woman even when listening to Reinventing Axle Rose nowadays, which I didn't expect back when Dysphoria Blues released.
Yes, thank you!!!
I had a great time when I finally disconnected vocal tones from gender. It's a tough worm to dig out but it's rad.
I wish I generally could separate the two. LJG is the only artist I listened to before they came out (well officially came out - Trash Unreal always felt autobiographical, so when she finally came out, it made a lot more sense).
I'm agender so it was more I wanted my voice to sound a touch higher in tone.. and only shifted an octave.. It's weird I dunno, thinking back I maybe felt pressured because of the predominantly transfem spaces I was in that influenced that plus not very healthy spaces at that..
Not really sure what I'd want for my own voice (other than avoiding buzziness). So many cool and different voice types.
If I wasn't more self-aware of my own voice because of transfem spaces, I probably wouldn't really consider the genders of singers much and generally probably was a bit less self-aware of gender before egg-crack than most people? Like, a couple times I've been in otherwise all-girl groups without noticing until someone else pointed it out (one of those times was when we were changing and apparently that's usually gender-separated activity here 😕).
Yeah I wanted mine to sound a little nicer and to lift it a touch more, but I didn't really have voice dysphoria before. I'm more comfortable since I've had more introspection and knowledge on top.
It's also why now I'd be more letting people work themselves out if that makes sense, but give advice where needed. I think I was aware of presentation and such but didn't really apply things to myself lol but I analyse a lot and over think but I also don't get envy or such negative feelings, it's a weird mix of being ace and intersex and non binary on top of autism lol But it's taken me on a weird journey where figuring out I'm agender is fairly recent..
It's tough because it's so ingrained societally, but exposing yourself to more cool people generally was something I found helped. People sound all kinds of ways =)
I really hope that happens for me.
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Nawww thank yew
I just take silly breaks sometimes
The shoulder mass is like, testosterone promotes upper body development, so it tends to pack muscle onto the shoulders which can be slimmed off and then regained in cool places, like thighs or hips or GIRL TUMMY
Estrogen does a lot of stuff which is cool! You don't have to be a scholar of it to want it, though.
Boob cube
You don't have to want to, my point is though sometimes women be sounding ways and that's fine, you are allowed to exist however while being she!her as well, you are not REQUIRED to do TransVoiceLessons level training before you can get gendered correctly, it is ok actually. Fwiw I wish I sounded like Ada Rook but I try not to worry about it and it is fine.
Sorry shit sucks right now for you
Yw though, I just think you should prioritise getting your own self to a spot where you're content or happy or at the very least less in-pain than you are now, cause you deserve that 
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I'll try to remember that, but I still don't buy it for myself. Voice dysphoria is genuinely the worst. I wish I could disconnect voice from gender, maybe that will just take time.
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Yeah or like, you could end up with a big shapely ass Idk
y'know just wholesome stuff
I will not tolerate girltummy slander though. Once you kiss a partner's girltummy, you will know, I promise. Fwiw muscle and then fat will build on your lower body first though, tummy is sort of a "reserve spot" for body mass (to kiss
)
Having dysphoria over your own voice is entirely fair, sometimes I get it too Idk. Listening to a lot of transfemme musicians helped for me though, so much variance in vocal tones. Try not to fret about it though
LETS FUCKIN GO!!! YOU DESERVE IT!!!!
Girl-Based and Tummypilled.
TRUE
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
misogyny
As I started to social transition, anxiety I hadn't felt since I was a child became noticeable.
But I've also come to realize that that anxiety has always been there. That I always got bullied for being feminine. And I've always felt like I had to protect myself around misogynistic men.
So for me the choice is do I want to have joy and fear, or just fear.
And I found that my life is a lot more manageable when I allow myself both.
That's sad, it sucks sometimes. I went to the beach Saturday in a conservative neighborhood. Earlier I was in a trans friendly space so I was just used to being myself that day. And I had just taken my first shot of HRT the day before.
My trauma got triggered being around all the macho attitudes and drinking that was going on. And part of me has wanted to hide ever since.
I also get the voice dysphoria. I have it happening quite a bit right now, which is an indication that I'm still boy moding on some level.
But there is voice training exercises online, that I've been practicing with. I'm also still smoking cigarettes so that ends up being counterproductive. And I have a referral to voice training through the gender clinic so that will help a lot.
I think this might be where my experiences deviate from the 'normal' transfem ones.
I only remember being bullied for it once. I mean I never did it again after that, but idk. Maybe I masked a lot.
I hope you're able to quit, cigarettes are terrible and have really impacted my family. Its a hard addiction to stop.
Thanks. My plan is this being the last pack. I have two weeks between tonight and my next visit with my kiddo as he's going out of state on a trip. And a bunch if lozenges.
Plus, now that I've started HRT, I'm feeling better about life and don't want blood clots complicating things.
I feel this a lot. I’m still not out yet, but so far just letting myself act more feminine and trying to mask as much has been so freeing
Edit: good luck quitting!
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Yeah, misogyny sucks. Not having a girl body when you want one sucks more. The dysphoria you feel is a constant, droning, shitty feeling that won't ever fully go away. The fears that come from misogyny, and the pain from experiencing it, are both temporary in comparison.
Your 'frame' isn't as much of a factor as you probably think it is. And you can make your figure and frame appear more feminine through clothing besides. Like, as an easy example, even cis women are reliant on bras to make their breasts fit their figure better. You can make your hips look smaller by wearing high waists. Etc...
Your voice isn't going to not sound the way you want because voice training is an active process where you can control and change how you develop your voice. You don't just have a secret femme voice, you create one, and like all creations you can make it suit your wants and needs.
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That is actually really good to here. And yea, it really isn't going away.
Its (unsurprisingly) hard for me to judge. The only thing I know for sure is I'm really tall and I worry that the rest of me is going to be like that. I did look at some pictures of pre hrt trans women
I need to stop doing things like thisand I am shocked how much clothes can do.I know it is. I think that makes me more worried, that I won't be able to get that skill down. Or I'll be training "wrong" and need to unlearn both this voice and my new-but-not-what-I-actually-want voice. I hope you're right though.
You're not going to get taller and none of the effects of fat distribution are gonna make you look taller. If anything getting rounded hips will make you look shorter by balancing out your figure instead of having it be focused on your shoulders. Brains and shapes are weird sometimes.
Clothes are genuinely 90% of what makes you pass in the same way that hair is secretly 50% of your face. I half want to yell at people worried about passing that if they worried less and actually wore some women's clothing for once then they'd pass but that's not really productive and it's not quite that simple since certain clothes enphasise masc features while others emphasise femme ones. So high waist shit. It looks better than low waist anyways.
This won't happen, voice training is all about building exactly that skill.
You're not unlearning your voice, you're making a new one and then switching to it. Eventually you might forget a voice you had, but that's not the same thing. You can just make a new voice if the first one isn't perfect.
How easy is this? I’ve just started voice training and one of my biggest fears rn is that I’ll spend all my time working on a voice that’s “wrong” and then I’ll have to start over
Depends, I have had 2 different femme voices since I had taken a long break between when I first tried voice training and my second attempt. What I would note is that the second time you try to make a femme voice it is much easier than the first since you already built up a lot of the skills. So for me making my second was very easy. But I could see it being a bit harder if you didn't take that break like I did. I think it would still be easier than the first time though.
stupid contrarian shit
Uh if clothes are like 90% of passing
then o shit waddup? Am I passing with just the 10%? Did I input a cheat code??
is it being skinny and having long hair, yeah probablySorry I don't mean for this to seem confrontational, not my intent, but I feel so weird hearing this when I'm walking around in a tank and sweats, or like a men's tee and an army jacket and jeans. I do really agree that yelling at people about needing to actually wear femme clothes would be cool, I see the point, I'm just curious. Grant me your knowledge of How Passing Works, o Seryph ✨
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Don't worry I didn't take it that way at all.
I guess what I mean is more like, your body passing is all about your figure right? And clothes can heavily influence your figure, up to what I would say is 90%.
For you, your body is slim and you've been on hormones long enough that your figure reads feminine. So if you're wearing clothes that fit then they're going to be shaped like your body, and then you'd pass despite not wearing traditionally femme clothes.
But also a tank is absolutely a femme piece of clothing.Men's tees similarly will fit your figure if they're in your size, and so even though they're men's clothes they'd look femme on you. (and if they're bigger then they'll actually make you seem smaller, which similarly makes you pass as femme more)For me, my figure right now is very androgynous, but I can make it appear a lot more feminine just by wearing femme clothing. Since my figure is androgynous, it doesn't really matter what femme clothing I wear since my figure will be ambiguous regardless. So wearing something femme will make me pass even if I'm wearing it in a way that doesn't accentuate femininity in my figure. This goes both ways for me right now though, if I wear masculine clothing (that isn't too big for me) I'll be read as a man. Ambiguous clothing will defer to whatever the rest of my presentation is, but if everything is ambiguous I'll be read as masc. I basically just need to avoid accentuating masculine qualities and I'm fine.
For someone with a more masculine figure, they can use clothes to hide their masculine aspects. High waist bottoms being the big example that I love and wear all the time since they make your hips look wider and waist thinner. Other examples include things which deemphasise your shoulders such as accessories that draw your eye away from them towards your chest or shirts that emphasise your arms proper. Etc... Etc... I still benefit from these so I still use these tricks a lot. Plus high waists are pretty and I love them.
So essentially, I would say that your clothes are still 90% of what make you pass not because they are feminine necessarily but rather because they don't obscure your figure's femininity when you wear them. If you wanted to not pass you could apply the tricks masc bodies need in reverse to emphasise your masculinity and look more masc again, essentially. So by not doing that, the clothes you wear are still a part of how you pass even if technically it's your body doing the work. Yes this is me twisting the meaning a bit to fit what I initially said, but I do genuinely think this is how it works.
Obviously whether a person's face passes is a whole different can of worms hence why I mentioned long hair being half of that whole affair. You need both to actually pass though.
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Okay thanks
Realising that being on hormones a really long time actually does make a notable difference is kinda rad. I know the babytrans hate waiting, but Hey, just pop some pills for a while, it's gonna slap!! I was gonna say though yeah, as discussed in the SMALL SHIRT BIG PANTS/BIG SHIRT SMALL PANTS comment thread, sometimes "androgynous" clothes can contribute positively toward your figure. I seem small :> I thought men wore tanks too, and mine are pretty loose, but aight I guess I'll take the W ✨
Hm okay, so it's less literally that clothes are 90% on their own, but more how they interact with the rest of your presentation and form, and also putting some intentionality into the way you present (orange book) helps a lot.
High waisted stuff fucks
I had no idea you could de-emphasise your shoulders though, that is good to know. Look at all this stuff I kind of understand!!!
Okay this tracks, I think I get it now. There's a lot more going on than in the initial statement, very cool. I'm learning the stuff!!!!
Shouts to having long femme hair also ✨
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Yeah basically I'm saying if you're fashion-pilled passing becomes easier and even if you're not it helps a lot to incorporate some basic ideas.
Yeah the shoulders thing can be done! I'm gonna take an example of a dress I actually own to show what I mean since it incorporates several of the tricks into it:
Here there are two things going on, the first is that the white chest draws your eyes toward it away from your shoulders. The second is that the princess sleeves emphasise the forearms and thereby also draw attention away. I love the princess sleeves btw they're so fun and flowy.
There's other ways you can deemphasise them too, angled sleeves on a short sleeve for instance can do it by angling it so your eyes don't rest on them. Or you can wear capelets! I love capelets.
Love long femme hair, simple as.
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I am un-fashion-pilled, I dunno what stuff is, got the wrong kinda autism sadly :/
Yo that's cool, seeing an example as you describe it is super handy. De-emphasised shoulders, how about that shit!!
SIMPLE AS
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Yeah I always like to have an example when explaining fashion concepts. That fashion effort post I keep wanting to finish was going to have one but I'm too busy and eepy all the time to work on it.
Also thanks for being a contrarian. 💜 Talking about this fashion stuff improved my mood somewhat
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I'm still looking forward to whenever you can work on it!!! Cool post idea!!!!!
Lmao you're welcome
Glad it did!! It is fun tbh.
Thank god for that. I am very excited for the round hips.
Honestly I don't think that's bad advice. I can't yet, but I am looking forward to it, especially high wasted clothes/shorts.
The voice training stuff is comforting, thank you. I didn't realize how it worked (because I haven't really tried yet). I didn't see this earlier but I appreciate it, this is helpful information for me.