My husband is a NEET and I’m very fortunate that my career pays enough that we don’t need him to contribute financially. He’s tried out a variety of careers and I’ve supported them, but inevitably he runs into some difficulty and quits within a few months.
I really don’t care that he doesn’t work and actually prefer it that way because my anxiety is very bad and I don’t have a lot of capacity for self-care.
Both of our families think it’s a problem that he doesn’t work, and obviously society looks down on it. My husband just told me that he has trouble sleeping because he can’t stop beating himself up when he’s alone with his thoughts.
Our arrangement has been that he cooks 6 meals a week (we eat 1 meal for both lunch and dinner) and we’ve tried implementing a cleaning schedule so it doesn’t get out of control, but he’s been too depressed to do pretty much any cleaning and wants to do delivery at least every other day. I’ll admit that I really don’t pull my weight with household chores, so I really don’t push these issues a lot because I can’t demand he do something that I’m not willing to do.
He spends all day playing video games, which is what I do in the weekends so I don’t think it’s like horrible, but it’s hard to get him to prioritize responsibilities over his game.
I want to be supportive, I don’t expect him to be a servant, I want him to contribute a fair amount to the state of the apartment and meals and I feel like it’s not possible for him right now because his self-esteem is so low. I also just want him to not feel ashamed of our situation even though I know it’s difficult because people are very judgmental about it.
I’ve asked him to talk to a therapist, but outside of that, what do you guys do to feel good about yourselves in a world that makes it so difficult?
In my NEET stints in life, I took advantage of my free time and schedule to spend time with friends. Definitely was better for me than being alone with my thoughts or doing stuff to distract myself from that.
A creative outlet could be good too. Or anything where he'd get to put in labor and see the impact of it reflected in the world might help fight off alienation. Everyone wants to be able to have some small effect on the world around them.
I wish we had friends ☹️.
I mean we do, but everyone lives in different states now. When we’ve traveled to visit people I definitely see an improvement in both of our moods.
Thought that might be the case. :yea:
Social life is another important thing for finding fulfillment and not falling too deep into depression, but it's hard building that out as adults.
You're probably doing a lot of what you should be. Make sure you're encouraging when he takes initiative and you demonstrate appreciation when he does cook and clean. Not too thick, but it does help to have a little reinforcement. So much of getting out of the depression slump is both repetition and habit building, but also not self-sabotaging and doubling down when you mess up or miss a responsibility.
I guess it's kinda a fine line to walk between totally enabling an inactive lifestyle and helping to build self-esteem. One thing that depression really saps is the will and space to plan and think through things to do. One thing that helps me a lot for cooking is to take the time, often after eating dinner, to plan out the week's or next few days' meals so it's easier just to do it instead of having to figure it out first - just one less barrier to getting up and doing it. Having a schedule for other chores and talking over it might help with that too.
I spent a bunch of years living the NEET life.
I think therapy is not a bad idea at all, but it can be a big jump to go from vidya -> managing a house (cleaning, cooking, maintenance, all the way up to serious DIY shit, finances, budgeting etc.).
I think what a lot of people mistake for discipline is actually self-efficacy. This is the concept that, while some things are determined by outside forces, your efforts can lead to positive outcomes in your life,. That your effort is meaningful and has effect. I think a bridge to start up from video games, which are often just a dopamine rush of low-effort tasks, to bigger stuff is to pick up a hobby. This sounds stupid, I am aware.
The trick is pretty simple, it has to have some suffering, but you kinda have to like the suffering. slogging through a tough book, making it through a run on a hot day, painstakingly erasing and redrawing a nose on a face until it's right, trial and error with recipes. All of these things build this quality, in my opinion.
- Meditation helps (creating a zoomed-in presence within a task instead of drowning in errant thoughts)
- Journaling helps (actively reflecting on the shit that you liked from the task so you remember it next time)
- A partner's (your) love and the meaningful appreciation you give help as long as it's sincere
Idk, those are just some reflections from a dark time in my life. At this point, it's much easier to take on tasks that are inherently a slog and don't have the junk food quality of videogames.
Ahhh this is good. I've been stuck in a depressive cycle for like...years and I'm just going to hang out in these comments and cry
Thank you, this is really helpful and I’m going to share this comment with him!
I definitely experience what you’re talking about with video games too. I love Ubisoft map games because clearing objectives on the map makes me feel like I’m accomplishing things and it’s very easy.
I'm a stay-at-home dad. My wife has a decent job at the moment and someone needs to take care of our kids to keep them from dying of covid since they're also too young to be vaccinated. They're also not, like, that young, though, so they don't actually need constant supervision. They basically just need someone to keep them alive and possibly to homeschool them again if it's too dangerous to send them back to school in the fall. So I'm not a NEET, technically, but I'm not that far away from being one.
Anyway, point being, if it weren't for artistic pursuits and exercise, I don't even know if I would be alive at this point. I know that a lot of people are mentally and physically sick, that a lot of people suffer under capitalism in many different ways, but I just don't know how people can live in this world without some kind of purpose or goal, I guess. If it were just me, my regular daily life, and video games...I don't know how I could survive.
I used to be a g*mer but I just found myself drifting away from video games in college because (I think) my social and artistic lives were both becoming so much more interesting to me. During this endless fucking pandemic it's a lot harder to socialize or even to summon the will to cultivate new hobbies. I honestly don't know what to do about your situation. I would go easy on yourself and your husband. Just to survive all this fucking shit is a feat in itself. Based on what you've said, it also seems like a good idea to keep pushing him to see a therapist. I keep posting this link to Lacanians here because I found my therapist here and she's been pretty helpful thus far:
https://www.lacanonline.com/find-a-lacanian-psychoanalyst/
Almost all she does is listen while I blab about whatever is on my mind. And something seemingly so simple really does kind of chill me out and help keep me more focused, at least when I'm not posting here. I started seeing her in the first place because I made a deal about it with my dad—I would see a therapist if he unsubscribed from the NYT and the Washington Post. Maybe you could make some kind of deal with your husband to get him to see a therapist?
staying at home and not doing anything sucks but that doesn't mean your partner should just languish. At a baseline, if you are wage working, then he should be working at home to help lighten your load. This can mean basic chores, and cooking so that you two are not spending un-necessarily on ordering out. There is the deeper issue here that all the shitty things about work outside the home apply to the home as well, and so your partner needs self fulfilling hobbies, and he needs friends that will help him not spend all his day moving from room to room bummed out. Exercise definitely helps. Not because he should look like captain america, but because it literally physiologically helps you feel better and get into a routine.
On your point about "I'll admit that I really don't pull my weight with household chores" -- well here is the thing. If you were both working, and you both were slacking on household chores, then thats understandable. If one of you is doing waged work, and the other is not, then the non waged person should be doing most of the house work otherwise the waged person is doing double duty when they get home and that will exhaust you.
I’m extremely mentally ill and being a NEET is unfair. I was literally going to be a PsyD, I played in a traveling band… and then persistent (I’ve had 20+ ECTs with zero effect among every [yup, that one too]) depression among others. I cannot get out of bed. I cry because of climate change daily… I’m ill, not ignorant. If you subscribe to the flawed notion of measuring using the IQ scale (I don’t) but since a lot of people do, I’m pretty up there. I am extremely well read in numerous subjects. Lol, I’m so insufferable I actually study Nietzche… and then there’s the Cheeto stained lowest-common-denominator individuals who are loud and proud. I live in fucking poverty. What do I do to feel good about myself…? Sleep, reality is fucking fake when you are asleep.
(I see a therapist, too)
If you subscribe to the flawed notion of measuring using the IQ scale (I don’t) but since a lot of people do, I’m pretty up there.
then why bring it up?
my anxiety is unrelenting, even when i feel very happy and glad about life my anxiety is a screaming cloud over my head
feel you
Just an aside, but Le Guin's The Dispossessed describes a society with community cafeterias and creches. The creche one I'm not quite sure about myself, but communal cafeterias, it's just so amazing. Thinking about how a society would work with a community cafeteria makes you realize just how much we are burdened by our own individualistic food preparation - both in terms of time and resources (how much space a kitchen and appliances takes up in your living space).
I love and hate The Dispossessed. I love it because it's amazing. I hate it because I get a bit sad thinking about how wonderful Anarres' society was described, and how I'm almost certainly never see something like that in my lifetime.
The concept of community creches is fascinating. I don't know how I missed that since I could on and on about it. Especially since I'm a parent and a leftist. I think all sides of the debate have a good point and there are pros and cons on both sides.
IIRC there was a movement in leftist feminism at the time Le Guin was writing that highlighted how since children were viewed as the woman's responsibility, children served to reinforce patriarchal systems. So something like a community creche and removing that responsibility would liberate women. But I think an even stronger argument is... how many people have shitty parents? Quite a lot, sadly. Being raised by the community (a good leftist community, at least) moreso than parents will give a ton of people a better start in life. Nothing breaks atomization and alienation from your community than literally being raised by your community. And I absolutely hate how nearly every American parent views their children as their property. Kids have zero rights in this country and it's bullshit.
OTOH as a parent... I just couldn't go as far as they do on Anarres. Maybe it's selfish of me but I love my kid to pieces. I cherish (nearly) every minute with her.
So I think there's probably a good solution out there that's a softer version of a community creche. Even beyond just good childcare service. I do believe we need to transfer some responsibilities of parents to the community in a leftist society. And kids definitely need way more rights than they have today. Just my 2 cents.
I agree wholeheartedly and like most jobs that don’t pay well, I think housework is a lot harder than what I do.
I can’t imagine him working the same hours I do cleaning, but if he was just productive for a few hours to start his day, I’d be thrilled.
Being a neet means doing your part in a general strike, so take pride in that if nothing else.
The boomer idea of supporting a family on a single income relied on a lot of work that capitalism doesn't acknowledge. Even if you argue that maintaining a home with no kids is easier than the for-profit hellscape, it's still work and it's still valuable. If it wasn't, the rich would do it themselves instead of using servants. If capitalist society hates you more than average, you're probably doing something right.
There's also the fact that most jobs are bullshit and are either neutral or actively harm society. Not participating in those is good.
Therapy is important, but.I and many of my friends and partners have suffered from this...maybe not depression, but kind of apathetic malaise. It's super common in ADHD people.
Firstly, try and socialise some of the work. Have him do heavy tasks at the same time you do lighter ones.
Friends are important, so an outside hobby is nice (sports, amateur arts etc), but anything that gets him away from a screen. Warhammer (well not right now but minatures in general) or other building hobbies, or even things like sewing or gardening which he has direction on rather than just maintaining.
If he is going to do the chores, let him decide how the interior is designed, that way he has an interest in maintaining his creation. Let him shop for cool things in the space that's now his sphere of control.
NEET is kind of a weird term cause it covers a lot of people. I got laid off for covid and have been able to ride EI for a year and a half, most of my technically NEET friends fly a sign and scam disability for money all of us are dirty links who spend that time playing music, doing mutual aid and doing drugs.
Being able to operate as a single income is actually pretty cool but where you are handling the money side I don't think it's too much to expect them to handle the household side of things for the most part. I really enjoy cooking especially for a partner, making a good meal is like most of the game I have.
Sometimes also just making yourself not do the things you're used to can help. If you're playing video games, force yourself to do something else instead, sometimes it goes nowhere and you're just bored or go on a walk and sometimes you come up with something. I cut off internet for a year a while ago by just not paying the bill and getting out for a while made me re-evaluate online. All this stuff is just toys and we can't spend all of our time playing with toys
You probably don't. It's not the hardest to get on where I am, but you need an under the table side hustle to survive. It covers rent and then about $100 per month and maxes at $700/month. Rent is rarely less than $800 here
It's the same here . It would still be better than nothing, and is more money than I've ever got by working (even though rent is even more expensive here)
any ideas on how hard it is to get on disability for mental health reasons? I'll probably try anyway, but hoping to hear that someone has been successful that way
I'm not totally sure. I know one person who got on it for BPD but I hate guts and from what I've heard she basically used the testimony of all of her co-workers hating her to the point she felt like she couldn't work. Frankly that's just doing the rest of the workforce a favor. She brought clinically psychopath crackhead to our house when she knew his ex was visiting which led to him stalking me and my roommate and bricking our windows, she then got our landlord's number and tried to get us evicted by pretending to be a neighbor and finally called the SPCA in some attempt to get our animals taken, so my only experience is with a very solid case for someone who can't society.
I think they actually won't give disability to addicts here :|
It’s not the hardest to get on where I am
where is that btw?
Nova Scotia Canada. So yeah, if you're American you probably have a way shittier welfare system..
I generally agree that if you're doing waged work and supporting the two of you financially, then he needs to pull his weight with household chores.
That said, if you have the time/energy to do so (which may be difficult if you are in a demanding job), you could try doing some of those chores together. That could help get him into the habit of doing some of that stuff.
We did used to cook lunch together before I started my new job. I doubled my salary but almost never get a lunch break.
I woke up about an hour before my alarm this morning and decided to ask him if he wanted to go on a walk together. We ended up walking our dogs and it was really nice. I think I’m going to set my alarm an hour earlier so I can try and do something before work each morning.
I've been unemployed since december. the answer is I don't, I feel like shit. but I do spend my time learning languages, reading theory, reading history books, writing, and other things to fill my time. what helps is setting a strict schedule to stick by, 3pm? I have to go for a walk 4pm? time to revise Japanese for an hour, ect
See if he will start journaling. Writing in a journal and writing down the thoughts that get me down and worry me really let me release them. Cheaper than therapy! I just do it every morning when i wake up and it works! For inspiration see the movie “the sound of metal.”
Having a physical hobby that gets him out of the house and exercising is good for mental health too. Mountain biking, hiking, surfing, etc etc.
Journaling sounds like such a good idea! Definitely going to suggest it. I think he would really like doing physical stuff but doesn’t want to do it alone.
I guess I’m kind of selfish here, I’m so pooped after the work week I don’t want to do anything on weekends and then I don’t have time during the week.
That’s not selfish at all. He can find his own hobby once he isn’t depressed. Hopefully the journaling will help him.
You should get him a blank notebook as a gift for him to write in.
The people moralizing housework here don't get it. Yes, OP's husband should be doing housework. Both OP and her husband agree on that.
What's more important than the should is the how. School and work train people to sink into dysfunctional apathy if they're not coerced into working. The problem here is how to escape that.
ring ring
ring ring
"Yeah, hello?"
...
"Yes I can-"
...
"Holy shit I-"
...
"Right away sir"
It's the based department and they need to speak with you IMMEDIATELY