To be fair, in the comments are some sources that made me go :bruh:
https://www.reddit.com/r/COMPLETEANARCHY/comments/p75ca8/context_unncessary/
Edit: I did find a “tankie” that says “prolonging the civil war + US occupation would be worse than a Taliban peace”, also coupmed with "the immediate fall of the Afghan military is proof that the Taliban are more legitimate rulers than the US puppet government". See for yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1i0ipzS754
Perfect.
I subscribe to any leftist sub, even if they are filled with sectarian bullshit.
Sectarianism is getting into a screaming match over what to order at a restaurant when you're 1000 miles away from it
My only issue with this is that posting online is definitionally not LARPing. Like, do people not realize it's an acronym?
Yeah, about the social Democrats:
https://www.fr.de/politik/welche-wahl-hatte-regierung-11415100.html
The main "evidence" is that some tiny Brazilian trot party is supporting the Taliban.
:galaxy-brain: Trots are "tankies" LMAO
As the saying goes: 70% good 15% ill. 15% concentrated power of will.
Ok, I let my drunk assholeness type some mean things. I apologize for that. I don’t in all truth think he was a moron. I simply am a person who is of the opinion that he was out of touch with the level of awareness possessed by the global proletariat at that time.
I can honestly look at the theory of Permanent Revolution, say exactly and precisely why I disagree with it
I mean, isn't the NEP, to an extent, the implementation of Permanent Revolution in practice?
My understanding (as presented by Mike Duncan in Revolutions) is that the position of Permanent Revolution, at least as it was initially conceived, was that the Russian bourgeoisie was too weak to have the bourgeois revolution it needed to have, and that socialists should take over Russia and manage it through a period of capitalism so that socialism could be achieved.
With the distance of time (and the Soviet Union no longer existing), we can admire the contributions that Trotsky made to the revolution, while condemning his later turn.
The anarchists (if they studied the subject) would note that none of Trotsky's objections to Stalinism had to do with the degree of state repression and Trotsky's common position on repressive actions was "I'd have done that, but better". If they were cogent enough about USSR history to understand why it mattered, they'd note that Trotsky was just as much in agreement with Lenin as Stalin on the subject of the Worker's Opposition and that the roots of Stalinism were not on the silly debate over Socialism in One Country or Amorphous Posturing Internationalism, but in the rejection of the program of the Worker's Opposition. If "tankie" meant anything anymore, they'd note that basically everyone on the left agreed that stopping a fascist revolution in Hungary was a good call. If "tankie" meant anything anymore and they bothered to study it, they'd note that it was initially used against British Trots.
Unfortunately, we live in a really, really dumb world.
I mean, they're the ones correctly calling the trots tankies and being mocked for it.
I figure it is easier to gently correct people by letting them continue mocking the people they're mocking than to point out that they are mocking people for being correct.
Besides, the core problem is still that the word doesn't mean anything at this point.
For every dumb take there is at least one trot group with like a dozen members that endorses it.
Yes re-invading the country to help all 20 anarchists in Kabul is a great idea
Imma be contrarian here, it’s cool and fine even if there are zero supporters IF WE ASSUME it is in favor of literally anyone more socialist than the previous guy.
Literally forcing communism at gunpoint would be moral and based. Who gives a fuck if an invasion is required. Choose a different tact when determining morality.
___The most extravagant idea that can arise in a politician's head is to believe that it is enough for a people to invade a foreign country to make it adopt their laws and their constitution. No one loves armed missionaries...
The Declaration of the Rights of ManCommunism ... is not a lightning bolt which strikes everythronecapitalist at the same time... I am far from claiming that our Revolution will not eventually influence the fate of the world... But I say that it will not be today.Maximilien Robespierre said that in 1792, 200 years later and it's still just as bad of an idea. I guess you didn't learn shit about America's first 20 year failure occupying Afghanistan?? stop being imperialist
I think history has shown this tends not to work out very well
Name literally anything history has shown to work well. It doesn’t exist .
America had uneven economic progress and also uneven social progress.
Social progress for the rich, not the poor, same as everything else.
This is deeply anti-Marxist. Marx recognizes the importance of the process of development and offers us ample reason to believe that you cannot simply press the "establish communism" button in a society and have it work. While the stageist conceit that human forces cannot interact with historical forces is not good, the anti-stageism of ignoring when historical forces overdetermine any human force that might be gathered is just as bad. Some degree of primitive accumulation simply has to happen before you can make a transition to socialism. There must be a large enough urban proletariat to sustain the revolution for the condition of socialism to be maintained. There must be a public will that a state exists for it to have any efficacy, and that means there has to be class consciousness. You can no more go directly from feudalism to socialism without at least some period of accumulation than you can enforce bourgeois democracy on a nation with no means of sustaining a middle class.
That’s not what I meant. If necessary,yes. Soft power is more than adequate, however.
You can think America getting owned by the Taliban waltzing into Kabul and promptly playing bumper cars is funny without thinking the Taliban's good.
No everything has to be serious at all times and we cannot find any humor in the absurdity of hell world. The last time I smiled was on August 19th, 1991. I wear a dirty ushanka at all times, do not shave, and only take cold sponge baths because hot running water is bourgeoisie decadence. Every day at exactly noon I have the same meal of an expired Maoist MRE I store in a pit covered in old issues of a revolutionary newspaper. I sleep in a bed made of flags from every failed revolution so that they are never forgotten. In the evenings I stare at a picture of vodka by candlelight, but I do not allow myself to drink because there is nothing to celebrate. Every local org has banned me after I attempted to split it by assassinating the leadership. There is no plumbing in my house I shit in a brass bucket with a picture of Gonzalo and Deng french kissing in the bottom of it. My house is actually an overturned T34 in an abandoned junkyard in Wisconsin. I have a single friend in this world and it is a tapeworm named Bordiga that I met after ingesting spoiled borscht on 9/11 in the ruins of building 7 (I blew it up after finding that a nominally leftist NGO inside of it wasn’t sufficiently anti-imperialist, the attacks on the world trade center were a perfect revolutionary moment for me to enact direct praxis against liberalism). My source of income is various MLM schemes in the former soviet bloc that have been running for so long no one remembers who I am, they just keep sending money. I have not paid taxes since McGovern lost the Democratic nomination for president and my faith in electoralism died more brutally than my childhood dog after it got into an entire jar of tylenol. I own 29 fully automatic rusted kalashnikovs and three crates of ammunition entirely incompatible with them or any other firearms I own. My double PHD in marxist economics and 18th century Swiss philosophy (required to understand Engels) sits over the fireplace of my home, my fireplace is a salvaged drum from a 1950s washing machine that was recalled for locking children inside of it. I chose that washing machine model on purpose because I am anti-natalist. During the latest BLM protests I firebombed a Nikes outlet in the middle of a peaceful candlelit vigil. William F Buckley and I wrote hatemail to one another for 47 years until my final letter gave him an aneurysm. The only water I drink is from puddles. George Lucas and I dropped acid together during an MKULTRA southern baptist summer camp and he went on to write the movie Willow about our time together. The best way to test whether an electrical wire is live is to drool on it and shrimp salad is racist. You can make an IED out of potassium and the instructions are online thanks to Timothy McVey, who was actually a committed antifascist communist slandered by the deep state as part of operation condor. Every time a liberal files a restraining order against me, I carve a mark into the wall. I am running out of walls. When Amerika finally collapses I will be ready to lead the revolution. I am very smart and people like being around me.
:fidel-salute-big:
Thank you, I’ll probably repost it to !copypasta@hexbear.net later. I’m enjoying it being buried in this thread for a bit as a deranged easter egg.
You know I rarely smile myself, but I always crack one for about 0.5 seconds every 9/11.
I still have not played that game, the creators refuse to send me a copy even after living with me for a week.
:lt-dbyf-dubois:
George Lucas and I dropped acid together during an MKULTRA southern baptist summer camp and he went on to write the movie Willow about our time together.
Amazing
I’m on a lot of cold meds and decongestants right now. I think that ephedrine shines through.
Bourgeois decadence. I only eat one bowl of dry leaves in water a day
Every time a liberal files a restraining order against me, I carve a mark into the wall. I am running out of walls.
Idk why, this killed me.
Do they just imagine there is a serious anarchist movement in every nation with their exact ideology just waiting for white people to give them the go ahead?
Well apparently there's some small anarchist group that's currently trying to raise funds to leave Afghanistan, so there is something there.
That said the first time I've learned there was an afghani anarchist movement was from hearing about this fundraiser.
So they want us to re-invade to help them? It is weird that online-anarchists are so ready to advocate for imperialist adventures
I didn't say that since I'm not an anarchist, and I'm hoping the anarchists aren't saying that either.
Oh I'm not accusing you of that, just that a lot of the hand-wringing online has been pushing or at least implying that it would have been better to stay there. Or moral indignation suddenly over the idea that the Taliban controlling it is better than the US occupying it. The need to equivocate shows that there is an element of embarrassed/humiliated americanism going on
how do you even get that from:
"there’s some small anarchist group that’s currently trying to raise funds to leave"
?That's no joke what some "anarchists" have been advocating for or slyly lamenting about. You get that from online anarchists who make anarchists look bad. ag Vaushites
Like how they LOVE claiming the Zapatistas are anarchists, against the vociferous wishes of the EZLN.
yeah the 8 people in the capital city running a failing newspaper are just waiting for the right moment to smash the state, and you are a bad person for not believing in them
it's just a fantasy for these people
Damn what if the Soviet aligned Communists were the ones that originally fought the predecessors of the Taliban wouldn't that be just kooky
Oh no, Kassabian gonna be ignorant and harass you for being a tankie
This whole "tankie vs anarkiddie" debate is dogshit, merely an online phenomenom. Whoever is engaging in this shit tell them to go touch some grass and never log back again.
Like yeah I get the red and black split historically
And even there it seems like every time something real is happening most people shut up and support the revolution whether it's their favorite flavor or not. Like some of them might schism later once things aren't so pressing, and there's always infighting for one reason or another (and when someone has lived through the direct material part of power that is violence they tend to continue using it, perhaps past its due date), but it seems like only the most egregious assholes continue to do sectarian splitting in the middle of a crisis.
And yeah, so much of what gets very heavily upvoted on C@ is just straight up "hey look I made up a person to get really mad at and, more importantly, to get you all very mad about too so we can unite the community with sectarian hatred and purge whoever disagrees" which is some really on the nose kind of shit.
The good news is I knew someone from elsewhere who was an absolutely rapid anti-ML sectarian on C@ when I found her reddit profile (psa: don't use your personal username on fucking reddit). Fast forward less than a year and she's an ML and has deleted her old reddit account. Plenty of people get swept up in sectarian bullshit only to get tired of it and learn better.
The fact that some people are unable to find any amusement whatsoever at America's imperial humiliations is a pretty big tell.
Edit: Jesus christ there are like 3 good posts in that thread and the rest of it is like someone whacked a Vaush-shaped spider with a broom and a thousand tiny Vaushes emerged out of it.
I kinda just assumed people stopped acting like the Spanish Civil War didn't end 80 years ago but I see I was wrong
I agree but i rarely see them analysing the bunch of things spanish anarchists fucked up during that time that had nothing to do with conflict with other communist groups . Or understanding the actual history and timeline and groups involved in the spanish civil war and what where the numbers and options of anarchists and where the disagreements with the popular front happened and what and how much actualy fighting happened between leftists groups and how much it contibuted to their failure etc
This isnt analysis . Its regurgitating a talking point of " anarchists, revolution?? ,catalonia, based, tankies, bad and jealous, backstabbing cause evil, ruined project"
of course im talking about online or in general the average anarchist that would spout these buzzwords . I never suggested that there isnt theoretical or academic examination of anarchist experiments within anarchist literature . There is everything for everything within leftist theory and literature and i have read anarchist writters writting about revolutionary catalonia. Just that its depressingly rare in anarchist circles that whatever historical understanding there is of that historical instance goes beyond the general buzzwords and surface level victim understanding i stated earlier and into that analysis and conclusions that do exist. You can claim this about any number of historical situation or experiement for any number of tendencies and mostly there is truth to that but i think the spanish civil war is a perticularlu egregious case, especially since its a primary example used by a lot of anarchist or libsocs demonize and other-ize historical and contemporary communism based on it and enter a "they want to shoot us" histeria
DO YOU REMEMBER 36? WE WENT OUR SEPARATE WAYS. YOU FOUGHT FOR STALIN, I FOUGHT FOR FREEDOM.
https://asranarshism.com/
lmao this is their champion? its funny that this independent, indigenous and totally undiluted anarchist organization spent more ink talking down iran as a genocidal regime than they did discussing taliban taking over their country :thinkin-lenin:
That org has members in Iran as well as Afghanistan, are Iranian anarchists not supposed to criticize their own government or something? Plus if you check their twitter feed all of their recent posts are about Afghanistan and the Taliban.
With takes like that, I’m unsurprised some of them splintered off and contorted into neocons. There are a lot of good Trots out there like SA, but holy shit are there some especially weird cranks.
tbf there were "leftitsts" here who were on Team Trump last year. Being a contrarian is nothing new.
"But Hillary would have totally invaded Iran" I say as Trump tears up a diplomatic agreement with Iran and assassinates an Iranian general
There were "leftists" in here who were saying that we should be voting for Biden because of immigratio, climate change and it will be easier to organize under him.
I'm about to do an edit to the post, I did find a "tankie" that says "prolonging the civil war+ US occupation would be worse than a Taliban peace".
What do you mean? Asking this in good faith, do you think the occupation should have continued? I would definitely think that the end of the war is about the least horrible option of the ones that exist.
I don't know, it's just making predictions about how good a far right religious government would be is something I wouldn't dare. But yeah, I get the point about an immediate peace being preferable to continuing the fucked up situation.
like, i can't get over it. 20 years ago state department propaganda declared that these guys were the great infidels, and leftists, 20 years later, still have it so programmed in their brains that these guys are the worst of the worst. come off it!
I mean, there were some posts here that got removed for coming off that way.
I think that to an outsider the general exuberance about the US leaving Afghanistan with their tail between their legs can easily be mistaken for a celebration of the Taliban's victory.
Those were all pretty obviously wreckers and trolls though, unless I missed something from a regular user.
