ironically the top thing on their sub right now is: "Accomplices Not Allies | Abolishing the Ally Industrial Complex; An Indigenous perspective & provocation" :michael-laugh:
OP:
"I hope white anarchists/leftist never get so see their vision come true, because that vision is hell for us Black and Indigenous anarchists"
I really mean this, how black and Indigenous radicals are treated in these spaces shows me what the world white anarchists want to build looks like. We've seen examples already with CHAZ were two black teens were killed, and whites tried saying they were robbing or fascists or something, not owning up to what they did. No I see no revolutionary potential among white people, y'all can be mad if you want I won't explain any further. Y'all gotta take a deep look at yallselves and fucking change. 5 points (52% upvoted)
Where's the cOmMuNiTy MuTuAl AiD for the black teen they paralyzed? Say their name! :amber-snacking:
comment section:
Support intersectionality. Get your woke segregationist bullshit out of here.
lmao literally just /r/stupidpol idealists with the exact same thought-terminating cliches, but pro-intersectionality? There's a reason why these labor aristocrats on Breadtube/WSWS/etc never tweet the word "segregation" unless they're hating on black teens for being "woke", or soyfacing at Bernie getting arrested 60 years ago: They are radlibs who cannot reckon with the material conditions of the Actually Existing Segregationist apartheid that allows them to not have real jobs ("nooo that's evil Stalinism to force me to stop being a furry zine artist!!! My youtube channel/Trot newsletter is doing revolutionary praxis by scolding the blacks for not being patriotic settler vampires like me")
Yea, but building communities and boundaries based on race, seems to be a nazi sweet dream.
Your equation of white = oppressor is the same type of thought as a typical local nationalist's roma=robber, stealer, thief, lowlife. Turning the pyramid on its head its not ending opression. Forgetting and forging new ways of life is whats going to end opression. Lots of Nations and Nationalistic hate is build on "memory", don't reproduce the same mistakes.
Imagine whining about "memory"...what's the opposite of historical materialism? This willfull smoothbrain ideology is it
So my point here is that our identities, our histories, our heritage are experiences during opressive hierchies. If we believe of planet without borders, of people freely deciding their lives, we should first stop being slaves to our roots.
white people who can't say the word segregation unless they're mocking "woke segregationist" black teens (who they reflexively shoot to defend their white settler communities) think they're "slaves" to the memory of their nazism. It's vitally important for them to forget the past so they can do open borders undocumented slave apartheid without any friction to their utopian dreams :maybe-later-kiddo:
This is the first BMF post I've fully understood and agreed with
When a trans person is exploring their gender expression and a TERF accuses them of hypocrisy for not working to "abolish gender", we correctly identify that as thinly veiled transphobia. Gender abolition is not simply an immediate transition to a lack of any gender markers. But when a bunch of white "revolutionaries" get called out for recreating the systems of oppression they claim to want to abolish, and they hide behind "race abolition", why is it less clear what's happening?
BlackMoldFutures, an old alt of OP that usually posts leftist word salad, but in this case seems to have a point
Bmf is almost always coherent but uses weird specific terminology, that if you are not incredibly online will seem like gibberish. Not saying I always agree with their takes, but the take itself is usually coherent... Now what it is always directed at or what causes the post, I can't usually figure that out, but with this one its pretty clear.
Maybe I'm insane but I could always understand BMF posts. Like they're not incoherent, it's just a huge drop of terminology that not everyone is familiar with.
I don't think white anarchists being racist should get a pass just for being anarchists. I'm an anarchist and have no problem identifying this as a problem worth discussing internally, so to speak. I'd never answer this shit to a lib audience, but here we should be able to discuss it. If we as anarchists want to claim CHAZ/CHOP as an example of our viability, we need to be able to answer to each other about its problems. There is a ton of theory on how to fix the issue of recreating oppressive structures. Restorative justice, intersectional education and knowledge sharing, or even cultural revolution stuff for those of us who aren't looking for purely anarchist theory.
I dunno I understood it. Or maybe I'm reading stuff into it that's not there
Yes the Reddit "anarchist" subs are terrible.
And so are a lot of the Reddit "Marxist" subreddits. Genzedong subreddit also sucks.
In general any "leftist" space on Reddit sucks. The only good ones are like the right can't meme, southafrican left and genzommunist
Like seriously a page for teenage redditors will be trash no matter what politics they have
Sectarianism as a core rule. Bad takes on sex work and sex in general. "Support anything against the USA" syndrome.
Occasional body shaming and weird sex work takes, from what I've seen. Still a good place overall IMO, not to mention a lot of the same posts are shared between here and there with broadly the same reactions.
You could say the exact same thing about a ton of other subreddits though, many of them anarchist.
It's not like it's unique to gzd.
You could say the exact same thing about a ton of other subreddits though, many of them anarchist.
:yes-comm:
I mean any community centered around a particular tendency is going to be sectarian by it's nature. I guess they could be nicer about it, but "ML sub doesn't like anarchists" isn't as genuine of a critique as the others
There’s a difference between a freedom to express disagreement and demonization. The tendency subs here are slightly more sectarian like you say but we still avoid bashing of individuals for their disagreements as much as possible
It's the most active left wing subreddit by far, so of course there's going to be some bad takes from time to time simply due to the volume of output. (Like a certain other now-gone subreddit RIP)
Overall it's good.
Like a certain other now-gone subreddit
Hexbear Trap Crossing?
shoutout to genzhou for educational content, but it's pretty inactive
Not to mention they all have known trolls and operatives as moderators.
GenZedong is great, you're just a :LIB:
Sometimes people post uninformed things but you'll pretty much always have pushback from people who know what they're talking about.
I mean it's better than most of Reddit, but it's still Reddit at the end of the day.
Their takes on anti imperialism are really good though.
At the end of the day wasn't CHOP/CHAZ or whatever they called it a glorified block party in a rich, lily-white neighborhood? Like was it every anything more than that? I don't get why people still talk about it today like it was some anarchist success story.
The neighborhood is the same one that elected Sawant and successfully fought the Amazon-backed recall. Yes it is rich and lily-white, but it is also right next to downtown so it's not like it's off in the suburbs or the edge of town or something. It's Seattle though, everywhere within city limits is rich.
Also, as far as I'm aware, the CHOP started as some people setting up tents in the park near the main protest area as a sort of "occupy" thing, and then someone made a half-serious half-joking meme about the "autonomous zone" in the form of a map that many people here saw. Twitter Chuds reacted to it, and then the Twitter left rallied behind it, hoping to see Paris '71 or something happen. Fox News picked it up and the rest is history (more people set up tents and stuff and eventually it was a block party).
It's a bit more than you're making it out to be, but it's about as much of an anarchist success story as OWS, even less so really.
It's really interesting to me that it gets talked about so much more than George Floyd Square, which both A) lasted much longer and B) was actually predominantly people of color.
clearly even leftists don't talk about it like it was a success story. on the materialist communist website hexbear.net the idea of armed militants occupying territory is derided as idealism.
I view it more as a demonstration that these things are possible in the first place. We don’t get a glimpse into the ways that humans can organize and care for each other very often
A rich neighborhood? Big if true.
Remind me what the CH in CHAZ stands for again (only libs call it CHOP)...
this is the only valid criticism of either I've seen (though granted a significant enough criticism to say both were bad)
Good example of what happens to a sub where va*shites are allowed to roam free.
I watched some segments of that "debate" a few weeks ago (yes, I hate myself), and it was somehow even worse than I had imagined.
And in the aftermath his sub has gone all-in on the mUh rEvErSe rAciSm thing, and has actually managed to become worse than stupidpol. Because of course.
It was literally them doing the “this is giving me some real Boss Baby vibes” bit but about self-determination of groups of people
Just straight copypasting this whole comment because it gets right to the point:
Yes, they might think they want an egalitarian society, but when it comes down to it, that's not how they act. They should want to abolish race, and they claim they do, but that is easier said than done. You can't just abolish race by saying "I don't believe in white supremacy." That's about as lazy as people who think they can't be racist when they say "I don't see color." It requires that you work on yourself beyond just lip service.
Are you quick to assume BIPoC are dangerous? Even if you don't believe in calling the cops, will you then become the cop and force them to act a certain way? Will you over-use "self-defense" as an excuse to abuse them?
Are your more likely to support white people over people of color? Do you find yourself expressing more outrage when something bad happens to a white person? Are you more aggressive in pursuing justice for white people, or trying locate missing white people?
Do you think BIPoC know what they're talking about and are suited to lead? Not be rulers, but leaders? Or do you think you know better than them and you should be the one calling the shots? (if most of the white people on that other thread were truly honest with themselves, they would answer yes to that last question)
It's easy to answer these questions verbally with the correct answers. But when it comes down to how people act, it's a totally different story. The thread has shown that, given the latter group of questions, a lot of white anarchists would not commit to the right answer. They claim they are anti-racist, but the when it comes to land back, they think they have to keep BIPoC in check because BIPoC might try to do something bad. This is really colonial, slave-master mentality.
And yes, in before people say "not every BIPoC is automatically right," do you trust anarchists? Do you trust BIPoC anarchists to properly understand anarchism and also be opposed to hierarchy? Because across the board BIPoC anarchists support land back.
In light of this, to claim that land back is ethnonationalist and all about hiearchies is to say that either 1) BIPoC don't understand anarchism, only white people understand it (or maybe non-Indigenous PoC) or 2) all BIPoC anarchists are lying and actually aren't interested in dismantling hierarchy, only the benevolent white people are. In either case, this is white arrogance.
Edit: Also, reading through some of the replies to the now-removed comments gives me hope. Solid moderation on top of people showing some decent solidarity before a mod can get to it
Actually Existing Segregationist
Beautiful turn of phrase, lost my shit.
Also I don't know what to tell you, there's some good points in there, though the argument never really commits to a position, instead relying only on tarring the example as ridiculous and contemptible.
Well... the examples are contemptible. And I'm 100% stealing the phrase lol
Some PoC comrades want to be able to take a break from "allies" whitesplaining utopia to them, which causes those "allies" to accuse them of wanting "segregation but woke". BMF correctly identifies this as some bullshit
BMF turning a big dial that says "sectarianism" on it and constantly looking back at the mods for a ban like a contestant on The Price is Right
Looking up a year old thread with two upvotes to generalize and own the anarkiddies.
People talking about sectarianism after seeing "anarchists" in the post are missing the glaringly obvious point that other anarchists in the comments have pointed out about white leftist ignoring BIPOC comrades. The same criticism would apply if CHAZ was a ML stronghold. Being a leftist doesn't mean your racial bias is completely gone. Or you don't have any sexist or transphobic behavior. Heck, we have had cases of people showing biases in here.
Maybe looking up widely unpopular old posts where anarchists say something stupid and get demolished, correctly, just to laugh at le stupid anarchists in general, is not in the best faith though.
