https://twitter.com/juliebosman/status/1298672614471340038
So chapo.chat actually got the identity of the shooter right and avoided a "we did it
redditchapo.chat" moment. This website is literally superior to reddit in every single way.“We’re not abhorrent monsters yaaaay!”
You’re absolutely right, but it is a pretty fuckin low bar haha
Tbh I was seriously expecting a "we did it reddit" moment after seeing the thread identifying the shooter. You're right it's a very low bar but still, trying to see the little good in a very bad situation somehow.
I think there was someone in the early thread who exactly said “we did it reddit”, but just to mock reddit ofcourse.
Still trying to identify a shooter from a random imugur album is sketchy territory to say the least. I was glad someone pointed out there were other innocent people that shared the shooters name, so we shouldn't doxx yet
That’s true, I appreciate you stopping to point out the good thing, otherwise I might not have
We're not as bad as the website where every member wakes up and decides whether they'll hate black people, trans people, poor people, or women more that day.
Don't forget defending apartheid. r/oldschoolcool literally had to remove a post with 30k upvotes about an anti apartheid protest because so many racists came out to defend apartheid.
Just last week I saw some random comment thread with a few thousand up votes spreading the propaganda that white South African farmers are being slaughtered in their thousands by the indigineous South Africans.
(If only it were true)
I remember pointing this out and being called a "race traitor" and a "disgrace". Reddit is honestly terrible, someone should nuke the servers
It was actually the shooters neighbor that ID'ed him, then it spread on twitter and chapo.chat simultaneously
Yeah, i don't know who it was who did the research on twitter but basically got everything right the first time, they had the insta story, the video where he id'd himself as Kyle and the reaction of the neighbor.
Yeah I remember someone posting the neighbors post here and then right afterwards someone posted the twitter thread you're taking about. o7 to that twitter user, if it wasn't for them the shooter might still be free as we all know which side the cops are on.
For so long they disparaged us for posting Twitter screenshots. But in fact, we were training for this day.
Credit should definitely go to Garrison Davis who also happens to be like 17 or 18 and is giving me high hopes for the zoomers.
It's entirely possible this shithead would have gotten away with this if it weren't for this guy's sleuthing. ACAB and citizen journalists make better detectives than any cop.
Wasn't part of the reason that his neighbor had semi-confirmed it after the shooter posted a bunch of threatening shit on social media? The first degree murder charge might actually stick if the prosecution goes for it.
The shooter also self ID'ed before the shooting saying his name or something like that, literally 0 op sec
Hope it doesn't work, but I could see it working for the other two (maybe, idk). Not sure about the details of the first incident, but I have a feeling with what I've heard so far that it'll stick.
Yea the name got out because their upstairs neighbor identified them on twitter
You're probably right. This is all so fucked.
Though the videos mostly circulating don't include the first group of shots fired. Something happened before people started chasing him and I think he had already shot at people.
Starting at 8:00 or so you can here shots fired before he is shown running. https://www.facebook.com/cjtv.io/videos/726145031563748/
he shot a dude in the head, that's why they were chasing him
or was that someone else?
He shot one person and then two more that tried to stop him from leaving, as best I can figure. At least some of the videos don't start until after the first shooting, which is why you're seeing some people cry self defense.
Even the first shooting was after he started firing his gun. The guy he shot was trying to take his gun from him after he started firing it towards some cars.
Something happened before people started chasing him and I think he had already shot at people
i was responding to this
There are multiple reports of more than one shooter from eyewitnesses. Another guy in a helmet and kevlar.
Yeah in the live video i heard someone say hes going to get beat up and shit. From the videos i watched i think he literally just tripped and then shot the poepole around him that tried to disarm him
yeah thats what i figured but i doint think there is anjy video of it
There is, it's the first video under the "police scanner" line posted by literal white supremacist 𝓛𝓾𝓬𝓲𝓭 𝓗𝓾𝓻𝓻𝓲𝓬𝓪𝓷𝓮 #JusticeForCannon
cw obviously, dude getting shot in the fucking head
don't get the downbears, but ok
I tought the only people that got killed were hurt was when the shooter fell and i saw 3 people close. Atleast one fell and one reporter got shot in the arm
nope, he shot a guy outside a car dealership, then ran, then tripped, got jumped on, then shot the people trying to disarm him
that's what i've seen anyway
He had already shot someone before those videos of him running.
yeah thats what i figured but i doint think there is anjy video of it
did I misunderstand what was said here? thats why I posted it
The person he shot in the head was running away from him. They were like 20 meters apart
This shouldn't be an issue as he could plead to or be convicted of a lesser included offense.
Very big brained of him to immediately cross the state line after committing said murder.
Did he think it's like the movies where they can't arrest you if you cross the state line? Seriously wtf
The dude's like 18, isn't he? I doubt he knows how literally anything works.
17, literally a child. But still glad he's that ignorant.
If he was black there is a very high chance he would be dead. When the gunman was jogging towards the police vehicles after gunning down a bunch of people, I was halfway expecting some kind of reaction from the cops until I realized they were in on it.
He should still be tried as an adult, he literally committed a terrorist attack
I think he'll probably still be tried as an adult. However, at this time, I don't think it's likely that they'll succeed in convicting him of first degree murder. Since there are photos of protesters tackling him and hitting him with a skateboard (DEFINITELY the same as shooting to kill with an AR style rifle), I think they'll buy whatever galaxy-brained self defense arguments he'll make.
It's like he watched some random movie and decided "if I wear gloves and cross the state line it's literally impossible to arrest me". Meanwhile he IDs himself before the shooting, doesn't cover his face, posts shit on social media saying he's going to shoot up a protest, etc. Actually glad he's so ignorant, I hate to think of the damage a "competent" white nationalist terrorist could do.
Don't forget that he was caught on video walking away and literally saying, "I just killed someone."
I mean he is blue lives matter neo nazi and there's photos of him at a "meet/shadow a cop for a day" event so yeah
Doesn't matter, most people have archived his violent posts already and the police could always ask his ISP for his history anyway
I hope he was dumb enough that he used facebook or discord for those chats.
He went home, someone on twitter said he's from antioch, the woman who has him as her son is also from antioch
The police will fight tooth-and-nail to protect Kyle.
Future vigilantes will not step up if the police don't protect them.
Yeah he literally walked past the police lines armed with a gun saying "I just killed somebody" and not a single pig at the scene thought to detain him or even stop him leaving the scene.
In addition to the lives this kid destroyed, his own should be added to the tally of lives ruined by the right. Poor kid, many of us here could have gone the way he did if not for luck and circumstance. Not that it’s any fucking excuse, but goddamnit what a waste
It's hard to feel bad for him. I and many others here have had shitty politics when we were younger, the difference is we didn't go around shooting people over it.
Yeah I hate these takes of "oh feel bad for him, he's just a victim of brain washing"
I had very shitty chud politics growing up and didn't do anything violent against "the other". This piece of shit drove a half hour to a protest armed, killed people, and drove home. He didn't feel bad about it and no one here should feel bad for him.
I had very shitty chud politics growing up and didn’t do anything violent against “the other”.
At the same time, this has "I grew up poor and made it, so I have no sympathy for anyone who didn't" energy.
This is not the same at all. Being indoctrinated is understandable, you're a victim of your upbringing sometimes, and you can have sympathy for those who haven't made it out and spew hate, slurs, and work against their best interests because of what they're told.
Going out to a protest, killing two people and paralyzing a third, and then fleeing the state is ABSOLUTELY beyond simple brainwashing. He was aware he killed at least one person and left.
"I grew up poor and made it" is celebrating the fact you are a statistical anomaly, and likely exploited many on your way up.
What is wrong you? How is this similar to "I grew up conservative & didn't massacre anti-racist protesters"?
You literally do not have to sympathize with white supremacists as they massacre people. I promise.
It's the exact same argument in the form of: "I figured things out, so I feel no sympathy for anyone who didn't." Alternately, "I grew up in an environment I was able to escape, and fuck anyone who wasn't able to."
You literally do not have to have sympathy for white supremacists as they massacre people
He's literally a child.
You can think he should get the book thrown at him, you can think it would have been better if he had been gunned down on the spot, and you can simultaneously think it's a tragedy that a literal child wasted his life because he grew up around chuds.
It’s the exact same argument in the form of: “I figured things out, so I feel no sympathy for anyone who didn’t.”
That's the whole fucking point of "which side are you on?" We live in a world of exploitation and terror. I do not have sympathy for people who go to war to protect it.
Should I have sympathy for scabs because they "grew up in an environment which made them hostile to working class solidarity"? Should I have sympathy for slave-owners because "they grew up in an environment where owning humans was normalized"?
What the fuck?
You can think he should get the book thrown at him, you can think it would have been better if he had been gunned down on the spot, and you can simultaneously think it’s a tragedy that a literal child wasted his life because he grew up around chuds.
You do understand that we in a world plagued by tragedy? The tragedies you choose to center speaks volumes. Yes, it's horrible that Nazi families are training their child to slaughter anti-racist protesters. They are slaughtering anti-racist protesters. I do not give a shit about the Nazi terrorist doing the killings.
Again: he's literally a child. He's 17. By all accounts his brain is a few years from being fully developed. You can't be (rightly) upset about something like the military recruiting 17-year-olds and then turn around and have absolutely zero sympathy for a 17-year-old who gets talked into toting around a gun and shooting someone. That's incoherent.
The tragedies you choose to center speaks volumes.
Who's centering this?
Yes! Why do people pretend like kids have no free will whatsoever. It's so fucking weird.
Were the kids who joined the White Rose Society to fight against Nazi occupation still just kids? Are they not heroes, just the product of their environment?
People need to have some moral conviction, god fucking dammit.
Again: he’s literally a child. He’s 17. By all accounts his brain is a few years from being fully developed. You can’t be (rightly) upset about something like the military recruiting 17-year-olds and then turn around and have absolutely zero sympathy for a 17-year-old who gets talked into toting around a gun and shooting someone. That’s incoherent.
How is that incoherent? I support prevention. White supremacists should not be indoctrinating children. I still do not have sympathy for white supremacist terrorists slaughtering anti-racist supporters.
It is disgusting that the military preys on children to carry out their imperial project, too. That does not change the fact a soldier raping and pillaging the Global South is undeserving of sympathy for their actions.
Who’s centering this?
"In addition to the lives this kid destroyed, his own should be added to the tally of lives ruined by the right. Poor kid, many of us here could have gone the way he did if not for luck and circumstance. Not that it’s any fucking excuse, but goddamnit what a waste"
Literally the top comment in this thread, that we both are responding to.
"Luck and circumstance" do not wipe away individual choices. This kid chose to slaughter anti-racist protesters last night. Millions of Rightist kids chose not to slaughter anti-racist protesters last night. He is not a "poor kid." He chose to drive into a city he's not from, and kill people.
White supremacists should not be indoctrinating children.
"But I have no sympathy for any child they indoctrinate."
In addition to the lives this kid destroyed, his own should be added to the tally of lives ruined by the right... Not that it’s any fucking excuse
I don't know what you think "centering" means, but this ain't it.
“Luck and circumstance” do not wipe away individual choices.
Exactly zero people in this thread are claiming it does. You can think a child should be held responsible for their actions but still think it's a waste that they were steered into doing something horrible.
I mean, give me you take on child soldiers. Kill 'em all, right? Give me your take on some kid who grows up poor and surrounded by violence and then commits a violent crime himself. Send him to the chair, right?
But I have no sympathy for any child they indoctrinate
I have sympathy for the indoctrinated children. There are acts that indoctrinated children can carry out that will make me lose sympathy for them. Carrying out an independent act of terror against anti-racist protesters on the cusp of adulthood is absolutely one.
I mean, give me you take on child soldiers. Kill 'em all, right? Give me your take on some kid who grows up poor and surrounded by violence and then commits a violent crime himself. Send him to the chair, right?
You really love jumping to conclusions. I do not have sympathy for Kyle Rittenhouse. If you want to explain, in detail, the scenarios you're trying to describe, I'll elaborate. The language you're using leads me to believe they're not analogous to the case of Kyle Rittenhouse.
If you want to explain, in detail, the scenarios you’re trying to describe, I’ll elaborate.
Sure. A child is indoctrinated into becoming a child soldier somewhere in the developing world. That child kills a few people. No sympathy, right? You'd blow that kid's brains out without a second thought, right? A child grows up poor and surrounded by violence. That child takes part in some violence himself and kills someone during a robbery. No sympathy, right? You'd send that kid directly to the chair without losing a wink of sleep, right?
That's not jumping to conclusions -- that's what "I have no sympathy for this kid" means when you apply it to reality.
That’s not jumping to conclusions – that’s what “I have no sympathy for this kid” means when you apply it to reality.
No, it does not. You're trying to stretch remedial logic to absurdist ends. I'm surprised you have not called me a pedophile because I said children have degrees of free will. That accusation would be equally grounded in reality.
Sure. A child is indoctrinated into becoming a child soldier somewhere in the developing world. That child kills a few people.
Let's start here.
Is this child on the cusp of adulthood?
Are they following the direct orders of a superior? Are they carrying out an independent act?
What is the sociopolitical context of this war? Is it the genocide of an exploited class? Is it an exploited class rising up against their oppressors?
Are they expressing an asymmetry of power, i.e. murdering while experiencing no threat to themself?
These are a few questions you'll need to clarify before we can even begin to consider this an imperfect analogy to Kyle's case.
You’re trying to stretch remedial logic to absurdist ends.
I'm not talking about redemption at all -- I'm talking about sympathy. You can think a child has done something irredeemable and still think it's a shame that someone worked to indoctrinate that child into a violent ideology. Kids have some agency, but they have less agency than adults. There are about a million scenarios where we recognize that kids aren't 100% responsible for everything they do, even if what they do is identical to something we'd say an adult is responsible for without qualification.
These are a few questions you’ll need to clarify before we can even begin to consider this an imperfect analogy to Kyle’s case.
You have as much detail about those hypotheticals as you do about this real-life person. If you've arrived at "no sympathy" with only what we know now, but want to play 20 questions with those other scenarios, you're rushing to judgment here.
I’m not talking about redemption at all – I’m talking about sympathy. You can think a child has done something irredeemable and still think it’s a shame that someone worked to indoctrinate that child into a violent ideology. Kids have some agency, but they have less agency than adults. There are about a million scenarios where we recognize that kids aren’t 100% responsible for everything they do, even if what they do is identical to something we’d say an adult is responsible for without qualification.
Everyone is shaped by the systems they grow up in. People don't magically become independent of that once they are adults. I interpret your comment as "every person deserves my sympathy, no matter what they do." The difference between a 17 year old and a 25 year old committing an act of terror is barely different. There's no difference for their victims
From your perspective, I find it weird you do not have sympathy for every far-right terrorist. Once they become an adult, you disregard the systems which were the reason for your sympathy? That's absurd.
You have as much detail about those hypotheticals as you do about this real-life person.
I have the answer to every single one of those questions in Kyle's case. I know the context of America, the war they are fighting in, the ongoing genocide of black people, the side they're on, etc. The only ambiguity is whether he was forced to carry out this massacre - which is extremely unlikely.
Please reflect on the energy you are willing to invest in challenging the statement: "I have no sympathy for a 17-year old who left his hometown to massacre anti-racist protesters."
You are very motivated to convince me I owe my oppressors sympathy. It's disgusting. I'm done responding to this. This is clearly unreal to you, just an intellectual exercise.
Once they become an adult, you disregard the systems which were the reason for your sympathy?
Do you believe kids are 100% as responsible for their actions as adults? Yes or no.
Please reflect on the energy you are willing to invest
Please reflect on the fact that you consider typing out a few posts "investing energy." Please reflect on the fact that you're talking about blowing away children without batting an eye. Please reflect on the fact that people who do not feel any hesitation as they kill a child are bad people who have a video game view of the value of human life.
What do you think "no sympathy" means in practice when you're talking about a murderer? What do you think it means when you repeatedly say "hey you know this actually means you don't give a damn about that person's life" and they don't deny that?
Think about how this mentality translates to real-world actions.
Do you think most people, seeing as they do not feel sympathy for murderers, would go ahead and kill them instead because of a lack of sympathy for their actions?
The death penalty still has majority support, and extremely long (effectively life-ending) sentences are popular as an alternative. So yes, whatever your "rhetorical question" horseshit is meant to imply, there's a clear link between lacking sympathy for a murderer and wanting to see that murderer dead.
[People] kill because they... lack empathy, and/or hey dehumanize
he is, however, opposed to showing sympathy due to what he did. That doesn’t mean he wants to kill him
Are you serious right now?
We’d rather he hadn’t been brought up as he had and ruined his life, yes.
Literally all I've been saying from the very beginning.
Twisting "I have no sympathy for a Nazi murderer" into "I want to personally murder children" is the funniest shit I've seen someone post online. Most fascists won't even go that far to defend him.
This tops "abortions are child murder" for best right-wing manipulation of remedial logic. You need to pitch this shit to Breitbart ASAP.
Thanks for keeping this up after I went to bed, made for some good reading.
Most fascists won’t even go that far to defend him.
Classic "I have no fucking clue what I'm talking about" line
Sure. Let me correct myself. Fascists will just say he is cool & "based."
The dichotomy of "you must either sympathize with Kyle Rittenhouse or you want to murder children" is something entirely special to you.
My apologies. You are much more inventive in your defense.
He's literally a child
He's literally a Nazi murderer. Besides, it's not like his victims didn't have families. Maybe children.
You can think he should get the book thrown at him, you can think it would have been better if he had been gunned down on the spot, and you can simultaneously think it’s a tragedy that a literal child wasted his life because he grew up around chuds.
I'd prefer he be hit by something a little heavier than a book
you can think it would have been better if he had been gunned down on the spot
It's one sentence.
i don't feel sorry for him at all, but it is a pretty damning example of the way the increasingly organized right can turn a willing subject into a violent agent. they've got rhetoric that sharpens a dumbass racist 17 year old into an active fascist shooter; that's a young kid who might have been able to change his mind if we had gotten to him before they did. again, not sorry for him, he made his choice, but they're really ramping up the effectiveness of their recruiting and we should think about our tactics in response.
Sorry, but fuck this fascist soldier, fuck the fascist police who let him stroll on by after committing murder, and fuck every single fascist chud cheering this tragedy. I feel sorry for the people he murdered, not him. He deserves as good as he gave.
Agreed, not excusing him like I said, just acknowledging the tragedy
It is a shame. Right wing psychos fear mongering just to make a buck radicalizing kids to the point they feel justified commiting murder in the name of patriotism. They'll never face accountability for their roles in shit like this either.
the fash radicalization pipeline is so well-greased, it's scary
A prison pen-pal program is a good thing, but people like this are a waste. We've got millions of people locked up. No need to waste our time on baby klansmen.
It's hard to watch, as a parent. I think about how so many people were just wee innocent babes at one time and it hurts my heart/soul.
Maybe. I'd like to think that a non-alienating parenting style might help, along with a strong community (at least family). But, this doesn't fix alienating working conditions, or social alienation outside of work. School seems alienating as shit too. Standby... *moves to Vietnam for the strong community spirit*
hey, but he's gonna be a hero to all the impotent fuckers on /pol/, they might name the captain Rittenstein on the next 4chan cup, isn't that what he wanted?
Spoiler alert: probably not and he's gonna be completely broken on the hearing, espoecially if they sentence him to anything serious.
Amerikkka baby! :amerikkka: Apparently it's common to teach kids how to shoot from a very young age, and since this kid was from a blue lives matter neo Nazi family, they probably indoctrinated him from birth to do something like this and taught him how to use a gun from a very young age. If you think about it it's literally no different from an Al Qaeda family teaching their kid to commit terrorist attacks, it's just the Amerikkkan version.
lol i was taught how to use
kidsguns from a very young age. The american culture is batshit insane
THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T LET POLITICALLY ILLITERATE LIBS ORGANIZE PROTESTS. They lets these fucking fascist snakes into their henhouse
